sonycrr

Hi AcuraZine,

If anyone can provide some input i would greatly appreciate it. My brother's lease will be up on his x3 m40i in 1.5 years. I was planning to buy it at the end of his contract for 37k. He has a lot of options but I'm not sure which ones specially but one time he told me it's almost a 70k msrp car.

I know I can get a new rdx for around this price. Can anyone comment on the performance of an rdx with a ktuner or hondata compared to a stock x3 m40i? is the acceleration somewhat comparable? how about stock for stock handling?
I like how the RDX is roomier, will be a new car, and probably be more reliable. I want to keep the car for 10-15 years so I want some good performance from it too.

thanks for the help

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I choose the bimmer.

JustMe...

Just for a reference. Back in 2018 we were looking at all sorts of SUV's. One was the X3 m40i, which stickered around $68k. We could have picked one up for less than $58k, so keep that in mind. That said, it's an awesome vehicle!

sonycrr

thats actually the negotiated price on his lease..58k

fiatlux

Unless the ktuner can add over 100hp, it's not touching the M40i. I vote for the BMW.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

right, the x3 m40i puts down close to 400hp.
the rdx aint touching that! even with a tune.

my original comment was something similar to this sentiment.

fiatlux

Here's what the Stage 2 Ktuner tune is capable of: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-rdx-...-slips-989362/
14.5s @ 94mph. Compared to stock, that's actually pretty good (C&D recorded 15.2s @ 93mph).

But C&D also recorded a stock X3 M40i at 13.0s @ 107mph.

To say it's in a whole different league is an understatement.

BCOmega

Based on our experience owning a previous generation X3, a 2011 with the turbo I-6 engine, and a current RDX, 2020 Advance SH-AWD, the M40i X3 should have noticeably higher performance than a stock RDX. I have no experience with tuning an RDX.

I wanted to add another factor that I recommend you consider- cost of ownership of an M40i after the factory maintenance (3 years) and factory warranty (4 years) expire. Not sure how much factory coverage will remain when your brother's lease expires, and its too early in the life of the M40i model to get reliable information on cost of ownership after the factory coverages expire, but FWIW:

Our 2011 was a previous generation X3
It was a great car, fun to drive, etc. while under factory coverage
We're very glad to have had the experience of owning it
It was expensive to maintain / repair after the factory coverages expired
After 7 years of ownership and approximately 50,000 miles it reached a point where $4,000 in maintenance and repair costs were needed to continue driving it
In addition, the turbo was failing and would soon need to be repaired which I am sure is expensive
Note- after the factory coverages expired we used a reputable independent BMW repair shop, not the dealer
We decided it to trade it in, as is, on a new vehicle, a 2018 RDX which we subsequently traded in on our current 2020 RDX.

Comment by the owner of the independent BMW repair shop we were using- don't keep a newer BWM after the factory coverages expire without getting an extended warranty from BMW (said there are too many issues with independent extended warranties)

I like BMWs, currently own a 2020 M340i, but haven't decided yet on a strategy for after the factory coverages expire; e.g., keep it and take a risk, trade it in, buy a BMW extended warranty, etc.

Bruce

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I think that sentiment is mostly for older Bimmers and for those who dont do their own work. (perhaps the mechanic wants you to take it to him, so he can earn a living.)

I love to wrench, working on a BMW is no different than working on any other car. sure, space might be tight and perhaps german over engineering will make things a little tougher...but it's no different than any other car.

Madd Dog

Just use BMW parts. They fit right, and are high quality.

They do cost more, but they keep your car running as it should be. My 535 stopped and went as well at 120,000 miles as it did new. I only used BMW parts, and went to a BMW indy when the factory maintenance ran out.

I also changed the oil every 5 or so K, and did not use their MM system for oil changes.

Jordster

Hey,

I almost bought an X3, and even considered M40i, because it's a lease for the business and the price difference isn't all that much when all is considered. I ended up with a fully loaded RDX, a nice set of wheels, and a ton of money left in my pocket instead.

If all you care about is performance, M40i hands down, especially if it has the trick differential. The RDX cannot come close to its performance, and it's a real RWD car. But if you care about more than performance, read on...

The X3 is a nicer car to look at, in my opinion, inside and out. The whole M-sport exterior package, from the overall design and the fascia an the blue brake callipers and gorgeous wheels ... BUT...

The M40i (and it's little brother the 30i M-Sport) is light on feature content unless you factory order it. This blew my mind. Almost none had the advanced driving pack, needed for surround view camera and ACC/LKAS. If you've never owned a car with Adaptive Cruise, or you don't drive long distances, I can see this not mattering, but I think a lot of people just have no idea how much these features are gamechangers. You surely have your own opinion on these features, but I will say that I would have skipped them, too, until I had them on my 2018 Accord, and now I'll never buy another daily driver/family hauler without them. In fact, when I factory ordered a 2015 X3, I skipped them, and it was only $1500. I was naive.

Anyway...

As well as the advanced driving pack, most cars, even M40i models, did not have the upgraded sound, the adaptive suspension, the upgraded seats and leather, and in some cases even the HUD. You do get a fully digital instrument cluster (partly digital pre-2020) which the RDX doesn't have.

At the end of the day, the seats were the cincher. The RDX is just way more comfortable. The X3 seats are pretty firm and well built, but then they decided to put the plastic handle for the thigh extension right where it's going to dig into your leg if you aren't sitting straight. On long drives, when cruise control is doing most of the work, I tend to sit in different positions to stay comfortable, and unless you're sitting upright the X3 seats are just not a nice place to be. They are admittedly great when you are sitting perfectly. The RDX seats are just a noticeable step more comfortable, and as a bonus all of the adjustments, including thigh extension, are powered and tied to memory.

2 months into ownership I'm happy with my decision. I still think the X3 looks beautiful and I get a tiny twinkle of envy when I see on in that nice blue with M40i or MSport (or the rare X3M!) but ultimately, this was the "family" car for me. I'll save my money for when it's time to replace my sedan - all that M makes a lot more sense when it's not the family car.

Hope my observations help. Good luck with your decision.

BCOmega

FWIW, the owner of the independent BMW repair shop specifically said newer BMWs when he made that comment a couple of years ago. Said older BMWs were more reliable / easier to repair.

..... working on a BMW is no different than working on any other car ..... That's great if you can do your own repairs, I did a little of that in my younger days but not anymore. Not sure about the work being the same as other cars. When the thermostat went out on our X3 the cost of just the labor to replace it was $500, they had to disassemble part of the front of the engine. Replacing the electric water pump incurs the same $500 labor cost- we replaced our WP at the same time as the thermostat as both BMW forums said the WP had a high failure rate and did not want to pay that labor cost twice.

BCOmega

Glad you're having / had a good experience with your 5 series.

The independent BMW repair shop we went to used BMW parts. Sometimes the parts were expensive such as the taillight assemblies on our X3- there were four assemblies, replacement cost for each one was $400, and they were failing on a periodic basis ($1600 in parts for a new set of taillights). Sometimes the problem was labor, such as my post above citing $500 labor to replace the thermostat.

My ownership experience with our various BMWs purchased new was great, problems have been post warranty.

Madd Dog

My car got outmoded long before it ran down, and it passed my typical 10 year mark for owning a car.

I wanted the modern driving aides, for sure, but I was also looking at thousands and thousands of dollars of maintenance, not unexpected repair. It was time for a new serpentine belt, rotors and pads, a second trans ‘lifetime’ fluid change which is hugely expensive since you need to take the pan off and replace that, along with the expensive fluid, etc., Another set of spark plugs, and on and on.

Plus, like I said, I wanted the modern driving aids.

None of the X3s out there had the necessary packages except for one that was loaded up well past 60K.

I am happy with my choice, the extra tens of thousands of dollars in my pocket, and I can deal with this car’s little annoyances.

leomio85

I'm still apprehensive, but I still come back to a used F90 M5 as being my next car in a couple years time. I swore I'd never own one, but I guess I softened up after not having to wrench on them for money. Like you, I prefer to err on the side of over maintaining rather than the people who demand you get a UOA and get every last mile out of your oil. With how hot BMW runs their engines, especially with their new "hot V" set-ups. Major problem is their hard plastics they use for everything under the hood that becomes so damn brittle after a number of years and heat cycles. But, it worries me when you go onto these BMW boards and people talk about preventative maintenance for their "high mileage" M-cars with ~50k miles ... and people actually reply with a laundry list of things. Since when the heck was 50k miles considered "high" mileage?! Until I hit 100k, my vehicles run and look like new. Heck, my last CR-V didn't really start giving me issues until 230k when the oil started leaking and a few minor gremlins started popping up. Nothing major though.

sonyfever

"M tax" is expensive, those cars are not meant for long-term ownership. If I need to jump into a money pit, I rather go Porsche because its handling is on another level compared to today's M cars. M cars now put too much emphasis on track performance by sacrificing daily comfort.

I looked into M340i after test-driving RDX. Performance and chassis wise, it is legitimately a mini-M3 when compare to the previous-gen M3. The performance is ridiculous for the price paid. (Of course not MSRP, M340 was discounted heavily straight out of the gate) However, I looked at what I wanted and what I really needed, and quickly concluded that performance was not everything. I can easily list a few cons about M340:
1. The RWD layout of bimmer is always going to feel less spacious.
2. The H/K audio is a joke compared to ELS.
3. The engine is a little loud even in comfort mode, and engine vibration is more than it needs to be.
4. The car is too stiff without adaptive dampers.

330 solves #3 and #4, but it also feels a bit generic and does not have the sharp personality of M340.

I view RDX as a grand-touring car that happens to have a big trunk, because other than the hesitation in low-speed acceleration, driving the car is relaxing yet the car can be fast when needed. Hondata Stage 2 enhances the sportiness in sport mode and tighten the comfort mode to where the car still drives smooth but with more power everywhere, and the re-acceleration hesitation is reduced and is only obvious when the car slows down to <10mph. It will not touch M40i in anyway on dynamic performance like everyone said, so OP needs to weight all factors and decides which one matches your priority/preference.

russianDude

Dont forget to factor in the additional maintenance cost and repairs for BMW if you plan to keep it long term....

hans471

When I was younger I lived a few years in Bavaria, not far from the BMW plant. I hung out with a German friend who was a "tuner" and hill climb competitor. I got to ride in some very fast German cars, including his souped up 911-S competition car. Very fast. I have a great appreciation for German vehicles and what they can do. I owned a couple of Porsche's, including a Carrera GT and had many friends who had BMW's. When I came back to the US I worked in independent shops and dealerships on these cars for some years before moving onward and upward in my career. I learned some lessons about those cars and over the decades what I thought then still holds true. The simple fact is, if you want German high performance open your wallet and hold on tight. Those cars are high dollar to maintain over their life time. My brother-in-law has long loved European vehicles and has owned them for years. This past year he finally got his fill of BMW's. His little M4 convertible was aging and the repair bills were killing him. Transmission work, that electric water pump that failed...
"The average cost for a BMW M4 water pump replacement is between $1,083 and $1,250. Labor costs are estimated between $638 and $805 while parts are priced at $445 . Estimate does not include taxes and fees."
Yeah, he really loved that...and the $1,500 estimate to service his aging transmission. Suddenly his lovely little M4 was going to cost him around $3,000 for some common service work. I guess that is why he is now driving a Subaru Outback. A car that is less exciting but very reliable over the long haul and vastly cheaper to maintain.

Several of the well know car magazines have pointed out that the long term costs of maintaining a BMW or Audi will run about twice as much as the RDX. Of course you might be one of the lucky ones who slides by, or be like my brother-in-law and find out the real cost of keeping that lovely BMW past its warranty period. My RDX seems to meet my needs quite well. No car is perfect but for many of us its a good value that holds up pretty well at an affordable price point. If you really want a super hot car get that BMW. But, never forget there is a price to be paid for that performance. If you plan on keeping it "10 or 15 years" understand that driving that outdated piece of technology will cost you greatly in the long run.

Years ago Porsche did a study on building a car that would reliably last twenty years or more. It wasn't so hard to do it seems but what they learned in the process was that this car was going to cost twice what a normal production model would be and it very outdated in just a few years as technology was evolving so rapidly. They dropped the idea. There is still no free lunch out there.

leomio85

Yea, more power = more heat. These M-cars are built to the brink of what is possible in order to achieve maximum performance, at the cost of long-term reliability. Most of the high-end performance European vehicles are built along this premise. When we talk about heavily modded cars, we also agree that with more performance comes less reliability. Yes, some of it has to due with the fact that you're messing with factory engineering that took hundreds, if not thousands, of hours to achieve, but a lot of it simply has to do with the increased stress of more power (ie: heat). Tack onto that the over-engineering that the Germans love to do, along with the simple fact that parts are almost always more expensive, and you have the product of what we see today: European vehicles are a money pit out of warranty. You see M-car forums and people talking about 50k as being high mileage and I just laugh, but then I realize it probably is considered high mileage for that crowd.

... maybe I just talked myself out of that M5 ...

sonycrr

thanks for all the input! You guys are touching on exactly what concerns me a lot. The reliability and maintenance cost on owning a German car. I've only owned Japanese cars and never had a problem. I can say that my brother does not drive the x3 aggressive at all. The only thing I would say is that he did not follow any break in period/guides as he has no intention of keeping it.


so at this point I will probably go forward with the x3. i still have quite a while to think this over. it sure is fun researching your next vehicle purchase.

some other cars i have in my mind.
mustang ev base model.
and waiting to see cost/reviews of the new mdx. probably wont get a 3 row because my wife has one but still waiting to see the new design and reviews.

Alias1431

I was heavily considering an Advance RDX about a year ago, ended up getting a fully loaded custom order X3 M40i. (Spokane dealer was playing hard to get with the sale price, so I decided to take the BMW for a spin) The test drive sold me the second I got above 4k rpm. You will not believe how rapid that thing is in sport mode until you try it for yourself. It goes and handles like a race car. It's really absurd that an SUV can drive like that. Aside from power and handling, infotainment is another thing that BMW is going to do better. (Only carplay for your year though, no AA) They both look good IMO, and cargo space is pretty comparable. Two areas where the RDX is going to outshine the M40i is seat comfort and audio quality, and by no small margin. You can spend a couple grand on the BMW to upgrade the audio, I did, but you'll have to live with the seats. They're not that bad, but those RDX seats are like LaZboys. I miss them.
As far as reliability and maintenance, as others have said, if you can do the easy and intermediate stuff yourself, you'll be fine. Not really more expensive than wrenching on a Honda. It's the engine-out stuff, or the stuff where you need to put the vehicle in the air that's going to hurt your wallet. However, the B58 is an amazing engine. Google it. Tuning is super easy, and these things are bullet proof. Quite likely BMW's most reliable engine in decades. Just keep up with your maintenance and you'll be fine. I rarely come here, so if you have any followup questions come find me over in the bimmer forums.

Funz51

Dude that car is around 10-15 k more that the rdx. Do not compare. Compare the regular X3.

JB in AZ

Which is a main reason many of us bought our RDXs.

Everyone has different priorities. I decided I wanted to have some money for traveling....oh, forget about that for 2020. IF I had known that three trips we had planned would have been cancelled in 2020...NAH, I would still have bought my RDX.

russianDude

Maybe more like 15-20K unless you buy it bare bones.... Upfront price premium, and additional cost to maintain/repair. Its a great car, but needs different budget.

Alias1431

New, sure. But this thread is literally OP asking us to compare the M40i to the RDX.

catalytic_ca

Couldn't have said it better myself. Was blown away by the performance. Instant response and torque. Zero hesitation and minimal turbo lag. Sharp handling. Different league.

If you have the money to pay for the high lease buyout cost, maintenance and repairs as it gets older, go for the X3 M40i before you get older, wiser, and more practical. You can always sell it in a few years once the repair bills start piling up.

JB in AZ

I'm already "older, wiser"...I bought the RDX and can't be happier with my choice. It has all the acceleration I need.

For you youngins, go for it.

Waetherman

While the OP only suggests a Hondata tune, there is more that can be done. Add a new exhaust, downpipe, intercooler, plus some other mods and you could get the RDX in the same range as the one Acura showed off at SEMA which was 345 hp. That's still shy of the BMW's stock hp but it's nothing to sneeze at. And the parts would only cost about $4000. I'm pretty sure that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to tuning, considering the engine of the RDX is so similar to the Civic Type R.

scyzoryk_nyc

And your reliability goes to the drain...IF you want fast SUV get m40i...there is really no compassion between the two. M40i is in another league even with all the mods on the RDX. Just the tune on m40i makes is 500hp car. I did tuned my RDX and its slightly faster than before (and more then enough for daily driver family suv) but I wont lie to my self and try to make it what its not.
Get CPO m40i for the price of new RDX.

Waetherman

I don’t think a tune and a couple of exhaust bits are going to affect reliability much at all. If we were talking about upgraded turbo, injectors, fuel pump etc then yeah, maybe.

Look, I’m just giving the guy options. If he likes the idea of a new RDX over a used BMW, but just wants more horsepower, there are more options than just a Hondata tune, and they’re not that expensive.

Aside; would you recommend the tune? I’m on the fence...

scyzoryk_nyc

True...messing with down pipes will force to get custom dyno tune, colder spark plugs and failed emissions...not worth it...As far as the me recommending tune...I got Ktuner...stage 2 offers 'quick adjustments' that improve driveability (boost target, turbo spool, throttle response) and those alone are worth it and make car more peppy. My other car is 650hp Cls63s (also tuned) so tuned RDX is still super slow, but ktuner made is way more responsive, more fun (at low speed) and I would definitely get it if I was you.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to bump an older thread. I did read through it all and wanted to share my experience. I own two G01 X3's. One being a fully optioned 2019 M40i in the beautiful Phytonic blue and the other being a fairly optioned 2018 Xdrive30i. Both have mild stage 1 reflash tunes. Before buying the M40i (as a replacement vehicle), I test drove MANY other vehicles which also included the new RDX. While the RDX was nice and i'm sure with a tune it will feel more like my Xdrive30i, it just wasn't the right one. There were specific things I wanted and didn't want to settle. The X3 M40i had all the boxes checked especially the one I purchased. Nothing can really compare to that B58 engine. It's such an under rated beast and sounds incredible! Knock on wood, both of my G01's have been reliable. I had more issues with my 2018 but nothing that was critical and everything resolved under warranty. Both trims get incredible gas mileage and are the perfect size IMO. As for services, all dealer done as of now because they both have service packages. I'm closing 30K on my 2018 and it's maintenance has been oil changes, filters, wipers, brake flush, spark plugs and a set of tires with an alignment. Just about standard for most vehicles nearing 30,000 miles. I use to work on vehicles with over 12 years experience, so nothing that I would consider unusual or excessive. I do have a build thread on this site of my M40i. Biggest power mods for the B58, is a down pipe with a reflash tune. Here is my lovely M40i

russianDude

X3 M40I staring MSRP price $56.6K+1K dest charge.

Vince D

Test drove the X3. In line with the dealer experience and salesman attitude, found it cold and stiff.

20 years ago I had the pleasure of owning a Honda S2000, which was a true sports car and by design, needed an X-bone frame and double wishbone suspension to enjoy a stiff ride along with pristine handling. It was an exhilarating, unmatched thrill of a driving experience.

The X3 reminded me of that stiff ride, but without the joy of driving.

Bottom line: BMW did not get a penny from me.

russianDude

Depends on what kind of X3 we talking about, X3 M40I or X3 M are no competition to RDX. These are REALY nice BMW engines, we are talking about 10K+ more than RDX Advance model, just to get the basic version of m40i, and if you want some goodies, like real leather and etc, add another 5-10K.
m40i requires different budget. if you can afford it, its a great car.

Vince D

100% Agree russiandude. Not knocking BMW at all and my bucket list automobile is still an M3. The X3 S drive was definitely on our list but there is something to be said for a complete buying experience which includes the dealer. To me the RDX had such a superior comfort level and the dealer experience was superb.

hans471

My sister-in-law is on her second X-3. I think her hubby sort of pushed her that direction as he has long been an Euro car fan. Of course he ditched his little BMW convertible after it started aging and emptying his bank account. He drives a Subaru now! HA!
I have spent time in both of her X-3's and they were without a doubt nice cars. She use to drive Honda's but her local Honda dealer's service department was run by a slime ball thief who soaked her for vast sums of money for unneeded services. She bought everything they pushed due to their scare tactics which just goes to prove that old adage: "Marketing will sell you the first car, service the second one". The flip side of that is: "The service department can drive away your customers if you screw them over". So to her buying a BMW with a "free" maintenance" package seemed a good deal.
I liked her X-3's but not enough to spend that much money on one. I look too much at repair costs especially costs after warranty runs out. While there are some things you can do yourself on the BMW when you get into more serious work you may need some expensive special factory tools.
As one independent BMW shop wrote:
"Even used BMWs can be costly vehicles, and it is fair to say that routine BMW service is likely to cost you more over time than repair of other more standard vehicles. A recent Consumer Reports post listed BMWs as one of the most expensive vehicles to repair and maintain once the warrantee expires."

You can roll the dice and sometimes get lucky and win. Or, you can roll snake eyes and take a hit. Its you money and you have to decide how you spend it. If you want that roundel on your car then go for it and spend the cash. You don't need anyone else to agree with you. Cars are as much emotional decisions as practical ones. I mean who really needs 400 HP to drive in a 35 MPH city street or a 70 MPH Interstate highway? I have never felt like my RDX didn't have enough power, but you may "need" to feel the rush of even more power.What was that thing I saw in a movie: "Speed cost money..how much do you want to spend?"

My preference is for reasonable performance, great reliability and affordable service costs. That criteria put me in the RDX. YMMV

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

For argument sake, OP is obtaining a fully loaded 2018 M40i for 37K which is an incredible deal considering the mileage is also low. It's been heavily discussed across many boards, buyers have gotten as high as 20% off MSRP new BMW's and a lot of which are custom ordered ones. The price gap isn't as great as you think, can still be more than a fully loaded RDX (all depends on options picked). Both of my X3's were picked up used and I got an incredible deal on them. In fact, nearly 9K less for the M40i than any other same optioned / year when searched across the country. I got lucky this dealership had no idea what they had (Extremely small ford dealership in the middle of no where VA) and they knew anyone walking in wasn't there for this specific BMW.. I wouldn't buy any vehicle new.

I respect that. While I do admire the S2000, it didn't thrill me in the same way. For me it was the power that really turned me off. S2000 is the type of vehicle that draws a certain attention and so it also brings the "must be fast" to other drivers. Truth is, it isn't and in all fairness that's not what the S2000 is really all about. If they had the Civic Type-R engine in the S2000, that would be a complete game changer and make the S2000 what it should have been.

Like you said, there's a gamble you take and that's with every vehicle. Acura isn't excluded from that list either. The new Supra is nearly all BMW. Toyota is "Somewhat" known for high reliability and dependability. They tore down the B58 engine and tested every single part to see if it meets or exceeds their quality / long term. And it did. In other words, it's a gamble for Toyota to use BMW everything for such an iconic car. I drove the new Supra and overall it's incredible. The performance and sound are perfect (could be better because who doesn't want more power ). To answer your question, does anyone really need 400 HP? Yes, some do want it which is why manufactures make such vehicles. 400 HP may sound like A LOT, but factor in all the other pieces of the puzzle to see if 400 hp is "REALLY" a lot. I have a boosted 6MT TL and I drive it in a conservative manner. The power is there when I want it. It's a fun car, has the proper power for today's world. It's not a high performance sedan, but it's fun. The kicker to this all, I get 36 MPG on my boosted TL and 33-34 MPG with the M40i. Hell even the supra nailed 38 MPG from NJ to MA, best of both worlds really.

russianDude

Once again, M40I is great car that requires bigger budget. And 380HP is nice, let's not make excuses. More expensive maintenance and repairs are all part of having bigger budget set aide for this car. I dont know if we can speak of BMWs being less reliable, it used to be a problem back in the day, I do not think its the case. The more expensive cars use more complex engineering, so obviously more can go wrong than say with Toyota Camry.

fiatlux

I must be missing something, because the K20A in the CTR at the time made less power and less torque than the F20 and F22 in the S2K.