Is there a sure fire way to tell if my TSX needs the TSB for oil consumption performed? After reading about some of the horror stories from other owners taking their TSX to the dealer and being jerked around for a warranty claim I'm wondering if the issue is just the carbon deposits and if something as simple as running seafoam through the pcv line will help?


When I first got the car around 75,000 miles, by the time it had 80 it was 2 quarts low. The oil light came on during hard acceleration and over speed bumps and that's when I realized it was low. I changed the oil shortly after and another 2000-2500 miles later it was a quart low. I changed the spark plugs and saw no signs of oil burn. Changed the pcv valve which was pretty dirty and oily... its been about 1000 miles and the stick is down maybe a quarter of a quart.


Does getting a tune help with this at all? I saw in the TSB that part of the fix was a reflash... among new pistons and rings, but to me it seems like maybe the tune was more responsible than the pistons/rings, unless they are a different part number?


Any input appreciated. Thanks for stopping by!

 

IIRC, the TSB applied to manual transmission cars only. Is that what you have?

That aside, you'll have some issues with trying to get Acura to pay for anything at this point. You are not the first owner, you probably have no maintenance records from before you bought the car and you are well over any warranty period.

That said, you may have a few alternatives.

If your car falls within the VIN and date ranges of the TSB then you could ask for a goodwill repair under that TSB, arguing that Acura recognizes that there is a problem and should have applied the fix during the drivetrain warranty period.

If your car is outside of the TSB range, then you can write a registered letter (not an email) to Acura (the address is in your owner's manual) providing the same information as above. You could also cite the recent Consumer Reports article on oil consumption (which is pure BS but that is beside the point).

Quite frankly though, I'm not sure that a quart every 2500 miles or so is that egregious given that you don't know how it was maintained for the first 70k miles. What year is your car and what oil are you using?

Good luck.

 

Thanks foe your reply!

I am driving a 2009 A/T. The TSB 13-006, version 3, from April 15, 2015 does not make the claim it only affects the M/T any longer. The vehicle has 85,000 miles and is in the 125,000 mile/8 year period.

However, the consumption seems to have decreased since replacing the pcv valve and running a can of seafoam through the gas tank, and running the engine a bit harder. My hunch is that if I can rid the engine of any deposits then it wont consume much oil.

This is my first Honda product, with my last being a toyota that would be between 1-2 quarts low at my 5,000 mile change interval. I used Pennzoil 10-30 (I think in that car), while in this one I use the Pennzoil 5-20, synthetic of course.

I have no problems with topping a quart here and there, I just want to do everything I can to make sure this wont be the death of the engine any time soon...

 

I'd keep an eye on the consumption - perhaps keep a log and check it weekly with a cold engine - and see where it goes. If you still have issues then take it in, along with your log and the TSB, to the dealer and have them look at it.

Did you perhaps buy the car from an Acura dealer?

 

Unfortunately I did not buy it from an Acura dealer...


I'll keep an eye on it. I mean how much oil disappearing should I be concerned about? I see no leaks, I see no oil burn, I smell nothing... It just disappears. As I said though, seemingly less now though. I'm going to try seafoam through the pcv valve and see if that helps. I guess it just makes sense in my own head that if there are deposits then clearing those up would help reduce excess oil loss?

 

I checked the oil this morning after letting the car sit all night. It was right on full line, which is certainly desirable. I last added oil when I replaced the pcv valve ~1,000 miles ago.


Maybe it seemed like it was losing oil because I was checking it hot? Usually I'd check the oil after letting it sit for a couple minutes from just having driven it. There is definitely a difference in levels, but that makes sense.

 

Here is the issue. It doesn't matter much when you measure it as long as you are consistent - but - hot isn't always hot. A two hour drive in stop and go traffic in the heat of the day gets your engine much warmer that a 5 minute drive on a 40mph road in the winter.

While there is variation in "cold", there really isn't much variation between the temp of your car in the garage yesterday than today.

Also, remember that the oil was put in cold and the level measured cold right after.

 

When I do a "hot" check it is after my drive home, which is about an hour in stop and go. I recently started driving on the interstates instead of the route I was taking which moves much smoother with much less stop and go.


Maybe I'm just being optimistic but I think the car might be just fine. I would expect a little oil to be gone by the time I hit my oil change interval as is.

 

Contrary to what Consumer Reports thinks, every engine has to burn oil. Them six soup can thingies can't go clattering up and down all day long without some of that cooking fat to get out.

The question is how much is too much. Most manufacturers say 1qt in a thousand miles is OK but I'd say that adding a quart or so nearing the end of the oil change period (or is it nearing the next oil change interval?) is perfectly fine and expected.

If there were no change in the dipstick level then I'd be more worried about where that extra volume is coming from.

 

Good point. Thanks very much, ceb.


It is easy to get paranoid about this stuff with so many negative comments surrounding the issue.


I was wanting to make sure I didn't have a consumption issue before I got any bolt ons. I really don't think there is a problem with the car, the oil is full and I don't plan on not checking it or riding out the 10,000 mile interval... I'm a bit anal about changing oil so I think it will be fine just checking the level every 1,000 or so and changing around 5,000 as I'm accustomed to.


Thanks again!


Edit - To answer your question is was roughly 2 quarts low at 5,000 miles.

 

If it continues to be 2 quarts low every 5000 miles then I'd have it looked at.

There is no need in doing 5000 mile oil changes - just go with what the car says - about every 6-7500 miles. Use Honda oil and filters.

 

Sounds good. That was also when I first got the car and supposedly the dealership I got it from had changed the oil... They did have their brand filter on it and the oil did look clean when I first got it, but I'm not sure it was filled all the way either. I've heard conventional burns easier than synthetic but haven't seen any data regarding that... It was probably conventional in there though.

 

A dealer will put in the cheapest swill and not worry about anything - including using the correct grade. What happens before the first oil change means little.

I bought my S6 as a certified vehicle from a large Audi dealer 400 miles away from my house. It had 3000 miles and was the owner's wife's car (I actually believe it too). About 100 miles into the trip home (11pm at night) I get a "low oil" light. I'm cursing myself and telling myself that I got taken, this thing is bad news, I've got to figure out a way to dump this thing... I stopped at a rest stop, bought a bottle of 10w40 and poured it in. In the 100k miles that I had it, it never burned a drop of oil. I had a gasket leak fixed under warranty at 50k miles but that was it for that car. They just didn't prep it right.

I had no problems with that car except for two very oddball events. I of course checked every fluid level at the next oil change and all was well. At 20k miles, the power steering made ugly noises and it was bone dry. A trip to the dealer yielded no leaks and topping it off that one time kept it going until I sold it. At about 30k miles the driver's side headlamp went out. It stayed out following several restarts that evening. The next day it was back on and never faltered again.

 

I reckon there would probably be many more signs of oil burn if this thing had a problem?

I had been feeling pretty taken too for a couple weeks with this thing... Like the local Ford used car salesman had got me good. I think this is a similar situation to what you're describing though.

Would you say it is a non issue if I need to add a quart between oil changes? That's kinda where I'm leaning.

 

That would be my thoughts. You have time to see how it works out before you run out of TSB time

 

Well, I added another quart last night. That puts me at 2 quarts in 5200 miles.


I've read on some other forums that vtec will burn oil pretty heavily, so I'm going to spend a couple weeks avoiding vtec and see what the result is.


Does 2 quarts seem normal to you?

 

I have an 09 MT and am the 2nd owner. Bought the car with 42k miles. Changed oil right away with Mobil 1, read up on some problems and got paranoid. Changed oil at 7k OCI, noticed I was a qt low (was still at the minimal low mark on the dipstick). Switched from Mobil 1 to Eneos (because JDM!! .. but because I get good pricing on it) and haven't notice any consumption since. I'm at 55k right now, but I grandma the car around.

I have noticed a few Auto's popping up for sale in my area declaring rebuilt motors by Acura through the TSB, so contact the dealer and see if they can start your consumption test. The sooner, the better.

 

Think I should put my stock intake back on?

 

What is "normal"? Any manufacturer will tell you that 1 quart every 2600 miles or so is perfectly OK since 1qt/1000mls is most every manufacturer's threshold, so getting them to do something about it is going to be difficult.

Here's what I would do:

Write a letter to Acura at the address in your owner's manual. Write a real letter, not an email and send it registered. An email is easy to ignore, a letter that somebody has to sign for isn't that easy to ignore.

State the facts - and only the facts. Don't go on about how worrying about this has affected your love life and that your dog ran away because of your constant whining.

Mention the TSB. Mention (and include) the Consumer Reports article. Tell them that you understand that some oil loss is inevitable but that this is excessive.

Close with what you want them to do.

You'll want to come across as an articulate, rational customer with realistic expectations who owns a car that is drinking too much oil.

Keep the letter to one page. Fill up the page but don't go over. This is your one chance to impress Acura. Think of it as your resume.

Feel free to post your proposed letter here if you want us to help you tweak it.

Good luck.

 

I don't think a SRI/CAI has anything to do with it. It's internal engine components + thin oil.

Contact Acura, get your documentation going before the TSB expires.

 

Sounds good. Thanks guys!

 

Oh, and i meant to out it back on so they don't try saying the engine is modded and not covering the issue, but I will write the letter first.

 

Yeah you should put it back on. Dealerships will find any excuse to not do warranty work.

 

Well, I have to order a couple of the tubes for the stock intake. Apparently I pitched those when I installed the CAI.

I called the dealer and made an appointment for this next Friday. I figured it would be respectful to give the dealer an opportunity to act on the TSB before I send a registered letter to Acura.

 

So I'm nearing completion on this test and I'm afraid it just isn't burning as much as required for the TSB. I've given the car hell, and I think it may be down 0.5qt/1000 miles at most. 300 more to go before I know.

Now I'm thinking maybe the fact this is 5w-20 is why it seems so abnormal for the consumption... My last car ran 5w30 or 10w-30 and burned about half as much, or at least id be down about a quart in 5000 miles. I never drove it hard though.

Is there anything I can do to reduce the consumption? Can I run the next higher weight? Do you think a seafoam soak in the crank and through pcv valve would help at all, even maybe a tad?

 

<p>Someone has notoriously commented that oil consumption in modern motors is because the oil is pretty much water. Makes sense, today's motors run really thin oil viscosity for the economy/mpg game.</p><p>I would think adding in sea foam would make you eat more oil. Oil consumption problem lies with the pistons and piston rings. Sea foam can't magically rebuild those. If anything (if it does work, it's debatable), it'll remove what ever carbon deposits that was helping to create some sort of seal in the problem areas, thus opening the gaps to allow for more oil to get burned.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

 

I saw on here previously someone asking if anyone would sign up for a class action lawsuit dealing with this issue. I have a 2011 Acura TSX and drive it daily for personal use and work. I am passed the 125,000 mile mark and Acura refuses to fix my car. I am furious about this because the car had the issue when I got it a year ago, I am the second owner and keep up my maintenance, etc. It is a factory defect, not something you extent a warranty over.

I am actually a legal assistant and I am going to have one of my bosses file a suit on my behalf.

If any of you are really interested and are serious about doing the class action lawsuit, please feel free to contact me and I will get you in touch with him.

This is not a solicitation post. I just think there are some people out there that may not be aware of their rights. And if they are like me, really cannot afford to pay $2,558.56 to repair a car.

 

Good luck with that.

Let's see now.

Your car has been burning oil since you bought it a year ago (you didn't say with how many miles) and you're now past 125k miles and it is still burning oil (you didn't say how much either) and you want your boss to file a class action against Acura on your behalf?

Can you identify the class?
Is the class so numerous that each cannot file individually?
Does the attorney have a positive track record with class actions?

At what point does the manufacturer's liability end?
Aside from increased oil consumption, is there a harm to the consumer?
Can Acura resolve the issue by giving each affected owner a crate of oil?

On a more positive note, IIRC, '09 to '11 cars used 5w20 oil. From '12 onwards, all Honda cars are using 0w20. What oil viscosity are you using in the car?

 

<p>Ummm yeah. I know owners who were able to get their car fixed through Acura BEFORE the warranty extension was ever&nbsp;issued, so it was possible to press the right button and talk to the right people.</p><p>Try pressing Acura Corporate, or hit up another dealer and see if they will repair the vehicle under goodwill.</p><p>I'll be interested to see how many owners hit you up on your offer for a class action suit, seeing how 1% of owners join an online forum to complain and most 09-11 TSX's are probably on to their 2nd/3rd owner, so who knows who's at fault .. previous owners or&nbsp;faulty design. I'm the 3rd owner of a 09 6 spd. No oil consumption.</p>

 

Actually, this is exactly why a manufacturer would extent[sic] a warranty. There are several known reasons for this issue to occur but it may not affect the majority of owners. It is not a safety issue so it does not warrant a recall. Since the number of affected cars may be small, any voluntary action on the part of the manufacturer to test each and every car for this issue would be foolish.

This issue is most likely found in cars where the engine was repeatedly revved when cold. While you didn't say how many miles were on the car when you bought it or how many are on it now, you did say you are now passed[sic] 125k miles. Can you show evidence that the prior owner maintained the car as required? Can you show that the prior owner did not rev his car when cold?

Assuming that the car is 5 years old (depends on the date it was put in service), with 125k+ miles, it has been driven far more than the average car on the road in the US. On average, a car in the US is driven about 15k miles a year, putting a 5 year old car in the 75k mile range. You have exceeded that by at least 2/3rds.

Although you didn't say it, I can assume that you took your car to a dealer, the oil issue was confirmed and you got an estimate for the repair. I also assume that the dealer refused warranty service as you were passed[sic] 125k miles.

Rather than contemplating legal action, I would focus on writing Acura a coherent letter using proper English, identifying the issue and your reasoning as to why you believe that Acura should assume the costs for repairing your car.

You have a few things in your favor:

It is an identified issue
Acura has extended the warranty on this issue to 125k miles

You also have a few things going against you:

It is a very high mileage car
You cannot show maintenance records for the previous owner nor can you attest to how it was driven.

Write the letter (on paper, not an email), registered to the address in the back of your owner's manual. Unless you are very far passed[sic] the 125k mile mark, I think there is a good chance that you will get some sort of consideration from Acura.

As a side note, dealers only get paid for warranty work when the car is within the limits of the warranty. They are required to keep parts and the manufacturer often requests to get the damaged parts back for analysis - the reason that dealers are often quick to deny warranty service is that they don't want to be stuck with the costs of a repair if, for example, the provide warranty service on a failure often associated with a mod. Equally, no dealer is going to do warranty work on a car that is outside of a TSB or extended warranty range without getting prior approval from Acura. It doesn't sound like your dealer got Acura involved at all or you wouldn't have made your post.

 

Are you sure the dealer filled with 5w20 and not the 0w20 used in current models?

 

Such a supportive community on here. I have all the maintenance records on my vehicle. When I bought my 2011 TSX 6 sp., it had 76,000+ on it. I purchased it because I wanted something I could drive daily and get good mileage and could keep for a long period of time. I have 143,000 on it now. From the time I bought it, I was having to add at least two qts. of oil in it before the oil was due to be changed. Took it to the only Acura dealer in Tulsa and was told there is nothing wrong with it. These vehicles are known for using oil. So approximately 5 months later I took it to a different shop and he told me that these vehicles are prone for this because trash and gunk build up in the pistons. So he cleaned the pistons and heads, etc. It did fine for approximately two oil changes and then it was back to normal. Normal for me. I received the notice in the mail last week regarding the sticking piston rings causing high oil consumption. I called Acura, I spoke to multiple people. Was told basically I am out of luck. So I am stuck with this certified pre-owned Acura that is basically worth nothing now because they are basically rebuilding the motor in a round about way.

My point is, that it has nothing to do with how many miles are on the vehicle. It is a factory defect.....product liability. And they won't honor or own up to their mistake basically screwing people over.

And as far as the attorneys that I work for, they have a proven track record.

 

And the owners manual for my 2011 TSX states that I need to use 0w-20, not 5w-20.

 

<p>It's not that we're not supporting you, we just like the details, and you left a lot out on your first post.</p><p>If you contacted Acura prior to this, did you document any of it all? Get a report open? Keep pressing Acura Corporate with all your documentation.</p><p>And 2 qts between oil changes, I don't think that even hits the magic number, considering the maintenance minder can range from 5k to 10k intervals. Maybe the other guys can chime in.</p>

 

I change my oil every 5k like clock work or every 90 days. Which ever comes first. I do have everything documented. I was assigned a case number. I sent e-mails as well referencing my case number. What do you mean magic number?

the cost to repair the warranty extension according to the Acura Dealership here in Tulsa, OK....is $2,558.00 for parts and labor.

I find that really hard to believe. I really think there will be additional issues after they do their so called "fix".

Just to change out shifter cables in my car, the part was $768.00; it took them 5 days to change them out, 16 hours of labor turned into 30 and labor was $1,125.00. I would think changing out the shifter cables is an easier task than changing out the pistons, piston rings, motor mounts, etc.

thanks for the advice.

 

<p>There is a magic # as to what is tolerable for oil quarts consumed per mileage.</p><p>I would stop with the emailing and go back to old fashioned letter writing and certify it.</p>

 

That post was not addressed to you. You hijacked somebody else's thread and get annoyed when we respond to the OP?

 

Two quarts for 5k miles are not excessive. The magic number usually is 1quart every 1000 miles. Maybe you need to a different dealership - but - two quarts every 5000 miles really isn't excessive on a car with almost 150k miles.

Do you really have all of the maintenance records from the first owner?


No, it is much easier to whine here than it is to write a real letter, go to a real post office and get a real person to register it.

The industry "standard" for excessive oil consumption is 1qt every 1000 miles. That would seem "excessive" to me but a couple of quarts between oil changes is annoying but not excessive for the industry. It also depends on how often you put the pedal down and yell "VTEC just kicked in - yo!"

The manual TSB from a few years ago - did that apply to his car? Was it ever done? He should know because he has all of the records

Gotta love new posters who start off by pissing people off when everybody is trying to help him.

 

<p><img alt="Werd" src="https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/werd.gif" style="height:46px; width:44px" title="Werd" /></p><p>The cards are stacked pretty high against you in this case. We're just prepping you. And I totally forgot about the previous TSB a few years back that Ceb mentioned. It was pretty much an ECU reflash that was suppose to fix something mechanical. Makes total sense in Acuraland ... but if that wasn't done, throw another log on the fire.</p><p>Play the nice card and see if Acura will grant you the repair with some goodwill service. There isn't much else to do. Pissing them off won't help you.</p>

 

It's been a while since this process started, but I ended up winning the warranty claim.

It failed the oil consumption test, only burning 0.5 quart the first 1,000 miles. It burned 1.05 the next 1,300. I went and spoke with the manager, and he contacted a rep. He explained what was going on and I went back and forth with the both of them a couple times and provided a carfax to show that it had been getting oil changes... The rep approved it and I just got the car back.

Will see if the TSB fixed the problem, but so far so good. Only been a few hours though.