Froglet

Hello,

I posted on , but a member there told me this website had more activity, so I plan on posting here. I am in the midst of looking for another 'sedan' & am considering the TSX. I have owned various imports, Nissans, Toyotas, & Hondas. My favorite make would still be Honda, particularly the Accord, as I've owned the 4th, 5th, and 7th Gens before. To my demise, the new Accord has a terrible rear end that is simply an eye sore I cannot tolerate. As the fam needs a new car, I have narrowed down to the following.

• IS350
• BMW 3 Series
• ACURA TSX
• Honda Accord (Wait for the re-design)

My primary focus is 'reliability' and 'dependability'. IIRC, the ACURA TSXs are being build/assembled in Japan? From my research, I've been told and can see that BMW's break down over time, especially after the manufacture's warranty.

I have not driven the BMW 3 series, nor the TSX yet, but have tried the IS350. It is rather cramped in the back, but it is smoothe and heavy. I am old fashioned and don't really care for all the quirks like Paddle Shifter, or Navigation Systems, or excessive electronics. I would prefer a dip stick as opposed to a computer telling me what's wrong and blinking lights to communictate a problem. I suppose that is why the 3 series caught my attention. It's just simple, and suitable for me. Yeah, I'm 'old' fashioned.

To cut to the chase, how do you folks here feel about Acura, the TSX? Any word on the 2012 model? Will there be a big redesign? I am on the fence as I have to make a decision soon as we are in need.

The TSX leaves us w/ more cash, and seems to be able to get the job done, but I care more about reliability than anything else.

Thanks
-Froglet

TSXKid2010

Seing how the mid-cycle refresh was in 2011, and this will be the second generation's 4th production year, I highly doubt anything major will change, let alone an entire redesign. I think there were 5 model years between the first and second generation TSXs? So if I'm right, 2013 model year might bring a re-design.

Kronos595

6 speed auto

pickler

If you really care about reliability avoid the 3 series. they are horrifying and very costly to maintain. The IS350 has awd option while TSX V6 has similar power with more cargo/passenger room. rank your requirements of reliability, fun to drive, efficiency and value in order of most important to important and i will recommend you ur best option.

Mr. NC

The only reason I want the 3G TSX to drop is so that the 2G becomes cheaper/more accessible which means more people can buy it/more demand therefore more parts availability so we can FINALLY HAVE AFTERMARKET PARTS

Thats what I noticed with the 1G TSX newayz....

Froglet

It pains me to see that people keep telling me the BMWs are just rubbish. Sigh.. I've never driven one, only admired them. I had always thought German design/quality to be better.

I prefer reliability amongst them all. The Acura seems to fit this description the best.

I myself enjoy working and doing my maintenance, fluid change, brakes, etc. So if these are easier to work with, even better !

I'm aiming for the 4 cylinder.

MrOtocinclus

I'm also researching BMW and my research has shown me that BMW 3s are not for the DIY crowd. They do not come with dipsticks anymore, which means you have to take the car to the dealer to check the oil.

I have also never owned a BMW, hence my interest in them. I think I need to own/lease one at least once in my driving lifetime, because it is the ultimate driving machine, afterall.

My TSX has been very reliable, and it's also been easy to work on. I used my TSX to learn how to do my first oil change, transmission fluid change, tire rotations, and brake pad replacement. I'm going to attempt a spring replacement later on, before I turn the car back in at lease end.

I would say that if you're getting a car for the long haul, go for the Honda/Acura. If it's something short like a lease, then the 3 is an excellent choice. Good luck!

Edit: I forgot to mention that you can't get a better value than a TSX tech package. You get so many bells and whistles and amenities that would cost quite a bit more in any competitor offerings.

thunderbt3

2014 model year 3G TSX and 5G TL will drop in 2013.

defconskylude

my wife had a 98 3 series and i hated it. interior was butt ugly and its still butt ugly. its boring compared to the interior of the TSX. i even hated it more after the warranty was over. $800 brake job replacement WTF. $200 oil changes WTF. btw the car was a purchase which was the first mistake.

leasing a bmw is fine just as long as you turn it in before the warranty.

i didnt even consider a bmw when i was car hunting. also i didnt like the fact that having a bmw just blends in with the rest of the cars in the streets. being in los angeles, all you see are bmw, benz,audi.

i like how i rarely even see a 2nd gen TSX. especially when my car is debadged and people dont know what it is

Craig-D

If reliability is your main concern, you don't want anything from Europe. With the exception of Porsche, the reliability of most European makes has trailed Japanese and American makes recently. According to J.D. Power & Associates, the two most reliable makes are Lexus and Lincoln. In fact, Lincoln has just passed Lexus as the most reliable make in the world.

http://www.autotrader.com/research/a...-the-world.jsp

Froglet

Thanks for all the input, I a mmore excited to see teh 2012 TSX. BTW, anybody have information on the 2012 Accord?

Nedmundo

I have a 2010 TSX, base with 6MT, and seriously considered the BMW 3 Series. At least with the Sport Package, it's definitely a superior driver's car, and even without Sport Package it's darned nice (though the standard seats pale in comparison to the TSX). But I went with the TSX because:

1. It's much less expensive. When comparably equipped to a base TSX, the 328i is about ten grand more. Even then it probably isn't comparably equipped. Gimme a break!

2. Reliability. I was looking at the 328i with RWD and no nav. In that simple configuration it's probably reliable, but it's no Honda.

3. The TSX is a better family car, mostly due to the more spacious interior. I see reliability as a family safety issue too.

4. I did NOT want to deal with the run flat tire b.s. that's mandatory with BMW's. I'm sure those tires will improve, so maybe in another generation or two of the technology it won't be an issue.

5. The TSX is probably better in the winter than a RWD BMW.

I'm glad I bought the TSX, but I have no doubt I'd prefer the BMW from behind the wheel. Give the TSX great steering feel and another 15 hp and lb.-ft., and the gap would narrow considerably.

ed_423

haha hey, u posted on the club huh! haha good luck on your choice man.just beware that the tsx might not have the same performance as the is350 or the 3series

pickler

? who said BMW is rubbish? i own a 135 and have owned 3 series before and they are excellent cars dynamically. They are just NOT reliable and cheap to maintain. ie. a tire rotation cost me $400 last week, fluid changes are $150+ and hard to do yourself and there is always something wrong with the damn thing. Painful memories of BMW problems i had: water pump toast, soon after the fuel pump died had to get the car towed to dealer. daylight running lights failed costing me a ticket. tires worn out prematurely costing me $2000 inc. installation to replace since they are runflat performance tires. engine lost power once on highway and even flooring it i barely made 50mph to get to the dealership. as for my Acuras i just do fluid change, hell my 03 TL is still %99 original parts, even the tires still have good tread and i never balanced them.

Froglet

I am more set w/ the TSX, and am trying to google more information on the 2012 TSX. The only information and rumor I have is that they will be coming down here in fall 2011.

FLYGUY31

I agree on all points here. Last July I shopped the 3 series and Infiniti G's..for the money, the TSX was the best value. Both interiors were subpar compared to the TSX, especially the 3. I do wish it has 15-25 more HP though..but for the $$ , you can't beat it.

No1nfoProvided

The 2012 TSX probably won't have anything new in it as the 2011 TSX was the one model refresh for this generation. I would still wait a bit to purchase the TSX if you can because of all the stuff happening in Japan lowering the TSX inventory here (harder to bargain down the price).

ceb

That's totally absurd.

While the current series BMW has no physical dipstick, it has an electronic system that shows you the level. Considering that most people never check their dipsticks, it makes perfect sense.

Reliability of the 328 is very good, while the 335 (and the others using the turbo engine) are horrible.

While the 3 series is a much nicer driving car, with outstanding handling, ergonomics and overall fit and finish, I'm considering a TSX just to get something that won't spend more time at the dealership than in my garage. I've gone through two fuel pumps, three injectors and (last week) a VANOS solenoid - all on a car that's less than two years old with under 35k miles. All in all, the car has spent three months at the dealership.

On a positive note, all my problems are known chronic issues and BMW is fairly easy to work with on lemon laws.

Doing it all over again would have me in a 328, but the BMW dealer experience isn't stellar either - far different than my local Acura dealer who seems quite good.

About $3500 buys you an extended warranty and an extended maintenance plan up to 6yrs/100k miles, so high mileage drivers can be assured that they'll be cost free for that period but schedule lots of time for your dealer.

There is no comparison between the two cars. Nobody but a fanboi would argue that the driving dynamics of the TSX even come near that of the 3 series (either one) but driving dynamics aren't everything.

Rocket_man

I currently own a 2006 TSX Navi and my previous car was a 3 series coupe. My comparison of the two...

- Reliability - TSX. The TSX has actually been the most reliable car I've own in the last 25 years. It has never had an sort of even semi-serious problem. I put gas in it, change the oil, pay the insurance, and drive the dang thing. Isn't that what you want in a car? The BMW was probably in the shop about as much as all my previous cars combined. But in defense of BMW, due to their excellent maintenance plan I seldom paid for anything. The most costly problem I've ever had on a car was a bad transmission on an Accord. There always seems to be something wrong with each model year BMW. Lately it seems fuel pumps are failing at a high rate. BMW usually corrects these eventually but it may leave you on the side of the road. I thought there was a new model 3-series coming out next year, never buy the first model year of a new BMW.

- Driving Pleasure - BMW. Hands down the best driving car I've ever owned. The TSX is a fine handling car but BMW has the TSX beat here hands down. Not a fan of the new run-flats, too much road noise from them. But point that car where you want it and it goes. Now I pretty much drive to and from work, no fun roads anymore, don't need that handling but it sure was fun when I had it.

- Value - TSX. No doubt the TSX has most of its competition beat here. Once you option up the BMW it gets pretty pricey. Persoanlly I don't see the TSX and BMW as direct competition. Some do. Regardless the TSX is an excellent value.

- Electronics - TSX. Germans just can't do electronics. I often had the sunroof on my BMW stay open because the computer could not read the position of the switch. There was a quick reset procedure. Come on, can't close the sunroof? Not any complaints about the TSX except after the latest navi upgrade disc for some reason my car doesn't seem to route me in the most efficient manner any longer.

- Styling - Personal preference. There are things I like about both cars.

In the end it comes down to your own priorities. At the time I bought the BMW that is the car that made the most sense. I lived in So Cal and there were plenty of great driving roads there. Even though the car gave me some trouble I hated selling it. Despite the problems I really loved the car. The TSX is more of a tansportation utility. It gets me where I want to go and is cost effective. When I sell the TSX there will be no emotional connection to the car. The BMW is like the hot girlfriend that is incapable of being in a serious relationship. The TSX is the girl you marry. Even after you are married you still think about that hot chic that just couldn't be. Ah my BMW.... I miss you but not the drama.

aIRpeACE

iTrader: (2)

Totally agree with you. when it comes to car hunting, my first choice will always be the Japanese. it's less expensive for the car itself, also the maintenance is less expensive. yet it's very reliable and fuel efficient. i will go with the TSX

Froglet

^^ Anybody familiar w/ VW? I am just awaiting more news on the 2012 model and inventory. Curious about the color and details.

GrigioTSX10

I owed a Jetta 1.8T back in 2002, the car spent 2 months out of the year and a half I owned it in the shop. Customer service is poor at best.

I personally find BMWs boring inside, their interior appointments leave something to be desired. I like the TSX, and I paid about the same for it as I would've a loaded Mazda6, so I was happy about that.

defconskylude

+1

BMW interior is very depressing

thetaylor310

+1 German interiors...

Except for Audi, Teutonic interiors seem so spartan and cold lol

i too considered a base BMW 3, Audi A4 and other comparable "entry-level luxury" cars but the costs of maintenance and/or lack of options kept them all at a far distance to the TSX. No regrets for me!

kazelement

the only BMW i drove was a 128i, you cant compare the 128 coupe to the tsx, but just wanted to put my opinion out there, bmw makes so pretty awesome cars, the handling is unheard of, and a very comforable car, i didnt mess with the stereo but im sure the ELS blows it out of the water, oh and did i mention the one i drove 33k, and all it had was heated seats and stearing wheel and bluetooth it was fairly plain and putting anything worth while in the car increases the car like 3k, so with the options i wanted probably would have been a 40-45k car so i said no overall its nice but unlesss you got money to spend buying the car and maintaining it, it doesnt make sense and the tsx i can see running for a long long time if taken care of.

risc

I know this is way out of your timeline, but personally, I'm waiting for the 2012/2013 Audi A3 Sedan for my next car. When I saw the youtube video of the sedan concept unveiling at Geneva 2011, I told myself "THIS IS WHAT I WANT NEXT!"





<iframe class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2gcoz7UUvE" frameborder="0">
</iframe>

ed_423

^very nicee!

mickey513

BMW 3's > TSX

I own a almost 10 year old 3's BMW with sport package and a 04 TSX. Yes it's not a 2nd generation TSX but the BMW is a BETTER CAR. The driving experience in the BMW is superior to the TSX, especially with the sport package. The interior with the REAL LEATHER option is better than the cheap plastic, fake leather in the TSX.

It's doesn't have Honda reliability but my almost 10 year 3's BMW so far has been just as reliable as my 04 TSX. It has require extra maintenance but knock on wood has not broken down in the middle of the road.

The key with BMWs is the preventive maintenance. Also look into finding a good knowledgeable independent repair garage. The place where I take my BMW by no means is fancy like the dealership but the 3 mechanics have a combine almost 50+ years of auto repair and charge a very fair rate compare to the dealership.

I'm pretty sure the Acura TSX V6 is a great car but it approaches almost $40k, an area where you can get a RWD luxury car from either Lexus or a German competitor.

Craig-D

A few problems with your statement:

First, the TSX comes standard with real leather. The BMW 3 series comes standard with vinyl - leather is extra. Granted, the TSX interior could use some real wood or aluminum as offered in the BMW (at extra cost).

Second, you contradict yourself. First you say yor 3 series has been just as reliable. Then you admit it has needed some extra maintenance. Which is it? The fact that it hasn't broken down in the middle of the road is not exactly a glowing endorsement. Why do you have to find an independent repair garage to save money? Oh that's right - because BMW repairs cost a fortune. If you have to cut corners to afford maintaining it, maybe you should take that as a hint.

Lastly, a TSX V6 costs $35k in base form and $38k with tech. You can indeed get a German car or Lexus for that - but it isn't going to have 280 hp or have much equipment. Both the IS and 328 stripper models start $1k less at $34k. And when I say stripper, I mean it. At that base price your missing a lot of features in those cars that come standard in a TSX such as power/heated seats, ipod connectivity, bluetooth, and xenon headlights. A loaded 204 hp Lexus IS approaches $45k and so does a loaded 230hp BMW 328. Both would get crushed on a dragstrip by a TSX V6 which comes fully loaded for thousands less.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

cp3117

I currently own a 2006 Jetta 2.0T that I purchased new over a 1G TSX.

I was like you and nervous about the reliabilty stories you usually hear on Japanese car forums but took the gamble and went ahead with the VW purchase as IMO was a better value and never regretted it since.

The Jetta hasnt been the most reliable car I have ever owned (believe it or not my 82 Monte Carlo was) but it has been no better or worse than any Honda or Toyota product that I have owned and the buid quality (Squeeks and Rattles) has been outstanding and by far the best compared to any of them. Maintenance is covered for 3 years in the USA and even after the 3 years is up I have found when pricing out regular maintenace items (ie: filters etc) that the VW was still surprisingly a little cheaper. Dealership service is very independant with all brands and you have to search for the best one, but in my area the VW dealer is actually better than my closest Acura dealer which surprised me.

One vehicle you may want to consider if your still searching is the VW CC. It has more rear seat leg room than the TL let alone the TSX. The performance of the 2.0T is comparable to the TSX's V6 let alone the 4cyl but it still has 4cyl fuel economy.

Here is a recent comparo done with them and the Buick Regal, which is interesting being the TSX is the V6 model.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

On a side note the Buick is also another great choice if your willing to wait till fall and look at the new Regal GS. (This vehicle would be high on my list if I was looking at this category again).

I am not a huge fan of Consumer Reports but if you are the reliabilty of the CC is equal to that of the TSX and is one of CR's recommended models along with the TSX.

You sure wont go wrong with the TSX as its a great vehicle. If the 2G was available back in 2006 with a V6 I would probably be driving that now but if the CC was also available then....well who knows.

SSFTSX

how is VW CC performance comparable to V-6 TSX when CC is slower by 2.3 second at quarter mile and half a second at 60mph. and CC is equiped with lower profile 40 series tires (bald tires sooner). CC is lower heigh vehicle. Only 1mpg per gallon difference in fuel economy. but thats not big issue.
They are comparing 2010 V-6 TSX. Acura has done improvement to 2011 TSX V-6 in refinement and fuell economy.

ed_423

well, IMO if the CC is only half a second behind the v6 tsx, its pretty damn good.

Moose Muscles

Here is what you do.

Look up all Acura dealers in a 125 mile radius from your house. Email all of them in one mass email stating the car you want (color combo + engine) and whether you want the tech package or base. Tell them you will pay $1 under invoice price. Wait...

They will contact you a few times, just stay smart and stick to your guns. The internet finance manager gets commission based on overall volume, not $ made per car. Sooner or later, one of the dealers with the vehicle you requested will level with you.

For my 1g tsx, I paid $50 over invoice...which isn't bad imo.

As far are your car choices, get the Acura. Its Japanese reliability with perfect amentities and luxuries...you won't regret it.

Craig-D

You may wish to reconsider the "Japanese reliablity" propaganda. There are plenty of hit or miss Japanese vehicles - same as any other automaker. Anyone blindly thinking any Japanese car is reliable is bound to be disappointed. The fact is the TSX only has a reliability rating of average in Consumer Reports - a rating backed up by the various problems reported on this very board. If reliability and amenities/luxuries are the primary buying decision - you're better off with a Lincoln MKZ. It's more reliable than the TSX according to CR and it has more toys plus real wood inside. According to J.D. Power and Associates' latest study, Lincoln is the most reliable auto brand on the market. Food for thought.

Moose Muscles

I don't know why I picked those words, but they stuck out.

I don't trust CR or JD-PA. I wouldn't be surprised if they take payments under the table to "rate" something. I would much rather take someones word for it who owns the thing I'm researching.

Sure people come here with their problems, that why the internet is great, couple that with the fact that bad news always flies faster than good news and then you will see why all the bad threads stick out over someone praising their car.

My tsx has been phenomenal, nothing short of absolutely amazing. I can say that, even after riding around for the past 3-4 months with NO AC in South Carolina (its 101 today).

Even if Lincoln is "better" the car is still compared to a TSX. Not to mention the fully loaded TSX is the same as the base cost of the MKZ.

Just my opinion though, to each his own. I wouldn't call it propaganda by any measure.

tvac

The CC is a fine machine and worth considering. A buddy at work bought his a month before I bought my V6. Handling is superb, interior is classy, fit, finish and comfort is excellent. But, IMO that half second difference in acceleration is significant. Nowhere near as much torque. But if that doesn't matter to you than it's certainly a worthy TSX alternative. Also worth mentioning that other than having excess undercoating constantly oozing out of the weep holes on his doors, he hasn't had any trouble with it after 18K miles.

ceb

How in the world does a lower profile tire equate to "bald tires sooner?" Tire wear has no correlation to height of profile.

Had you said "the Cc comes with performance tires while the Acura comes with touring tires" then your statement may be correct.

Beat up on VW for lousy dealers, expensive maintenance (after the "free" maintenance) or extra squeaks and rattles - but don't just pull stuff out of thin air.

VortexBlueTSX

As long as you dont get a buick regal...ill be happy...that commercial where the blatantly outed the TSX pissed me off

SSFTSX

lowe profile tires run down much more quickly. and lower profile tires are lighter and less comfortable.

elsapo

You can remove BMW from the list.

Now if you said performance and handling over reliability then I would leave BMW on the list.