that was previous generation ALG 24 month values. 2009 is too new but our analyst already know Audi is performing much better than any one else.

http://www.autospies.com/news/EXCLUS...-reality-8878/
Compact Class

.

Audi A4 2.0T quattro 68%

Audi A4 2.0T 68%

Acura TL 67%

Lexus IS250 66%

Lexus IS350 66%

Audi A4 3.2 quattro 65% Lexus IS250 AWD 65%

BMW 328i 65%

BMW 328xi 65%

Audi A4 3.2 64%

BMW 335i 64%

Mercedes C230 63%

Mercedes C280 4Matic 60%

Mercedes C280 59%

Saab 9-3 2.0T 59%

Mercedes C350 54%

Volvo V60 2.5T AWD 53%

Volvo V60 2.5T 52%

Jaguar X-Type 51%

 

The A4 2.0T is 1% better than the TL. Given the potential sampling error in the data, that is essentially even. I don't see how it's "much better." Also, this data is irrelevant to your statement that "Audi has the best reliability."

This data differs a bit from your data concerning residual values: http://mediaroom.kbb.com/kelley-blue...value-analysis

 

check all the long term test of VW/Audi products form Road&track/Motortrend/Edmunds. There products have the lowest maintianance and highest reliability for 2009. Diesel Jetta is at the top. Audi first maintiance is free. and that resale data is from previous generations. Now there is day and earth difference in resale values of Audis and Acura with there beak. KBB has awarded top resale value award to A5 luxury cars. for 2010 it starts at $36K in 2.0T form. I am sure it will go even further up.
The days of Acura as value brand is over. when you look at depreciation/total cost of ownership/AWD economy/performance/space/convenience features. Most of features and performance can be had in Camry XLE with 6speed Auto at far lesser cost and very close performance with better fuel economy. but it cant match A4 performance.

 

I am sure u have seen A5/Q7 but no Acura in luxury segment.

 

I'm sorry, but you keep repeating the same suppositions without any proof. I provided evidence to show that Audis do not have the best resale, and your retort was to argue that they do, again without providing any support. I'm not arguing that Audis have terrible reliability, but there are no data to support your argument that Audis have the best reliability on the market. Every verifiable source shows that, at best, Audi has average reliability.

 

you clearly provided evidence that Audi has best resale value. $50K A5 (Essentially A4 coupe) and Q7 are the best in class according to 2009 KBB. so why would $38K A4 has lesser resale value? when its $50K cousin is the best in luxury class.

Acura is best ALG on 2009 bases but it was based on assumption of previous TL/TSX/MDX models. not particular model was specified.
For 2010 model year things are completely different.
another look at maintiance for 2006 Q7.
u can see it is very cheap to maintian. first brake pads were needed at 24K miles. 2009 are far better and u can buy maintiance package. so cost of ownership for first 4 years is really cheap. add to that best resale values. you will always have equity in car for trade in and loyalty rebate is additional bonus over top of everything. I dont see any reason for extra ordinary expensive over acura.

 

here is another one.
2005 A4 2.0T.
There is nothing in brake pads for first 17000 mile. no A1/B1 service costs. so by the time u reach 4 year period. u save couple of grands on maintiance that u can use latter on for repairs but in Acura u have to spend right from the start.

 

Audi is cheaper than Honda based on first 17000 miles. look at depreciation.why would Acura different.

 

look at TL brake problem. I am sure it was not motortrend most dealers dont do free brake jobs under warranty.

 

Top 10 Brands: Top 10 Brands:
Best Resale Value 2009 Best Resale Value 2008
1. Honda 44.5 1. Volkswagen 48.1
2. Toyota 42.7 2. BMW 45.6
3. Volkswagen 40.9 3. Acura 45.4
4. Subaru 39.4 4. Honda 45.2
5. Lexus 38.7 5. Porsche 44.9
6. BMW 38.0 6. Subaru 44.4
7. Infiniti 37.3 7. Lexus 43.2
8. Acura 36.8 8. Infiniti 43.1
9. Audi 36.5 9. Audi 42.6
10. Nissan 36.5 10. Toyota 41.4

Please explain to me how this shows Audi has the best resale value overall. This is from the Kelley Blue Book link that you said shows that Audi has the best resale value.

 

Audi has two cars bench marked in resale value. Acura has none. It is as whole Acura brand that had higher value because Audi A8/A6 skew the results.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-190555059.html
The Audi Q7 quattro and the Audi A5 coupe won Kelley Blue Book's prestigious 2009 Best Resale Value Awards for the luxury SUV and the luxury car categories respectively (see also Audi of America Inc.).

 

u also get rear parking sensors/push button start/18inch alloys/blind spot as part of prestige package.
rear one touch window is standard.

All these will addup the cost of $33K TSX tech package towards the $40k mark without 6speed Auto/quattro/DI turbo/LED etc. I dont see how TSX is going to provide value when every thing is basic accord.


http://www.sonnen.com/detail-2009-au...o-3639563.html

 

LOL I go away for a day and this thread continues. This is awesome.

 

It won't die till the mods lock it. On and on.....

 

The 2010 Ford Taurus Limited (AWD) with the "303A" package is equipped similarly to the 2009 A4 Prestige:

• Heated and cooled front seats
• Rear power sunshade
• Second-row heated seats
• Adjustable pedals with memory
• Auto high beams
• Rain sensing wipers
• BLIS™ Blind Spot Information System with Cross Traffic Alert
• Electrochromic driver exterior mirror
• Intelligent access with push button start
• Sony 12-speaker premium audio sound system

http://www.fordvehicles.com/2010taurus/

With 19" wheels (and the standard 3.5L V6) it comes out to $36,840. Almost $10k less than the 2.0T A4 w/ Prestige. Does that mean that if you're looking at an A4 you should consider the Taurus?

 

Sorry, I had to jump in for a day. I'm going to bow out now that I've had my fill and will let someone else take over.

 

It is comparably equiped at $43K but u will not get the LED. Audi at $46K has drive select. without drive select it is $43K. The car is not as precise as Audi which only takes 2.2 turns for steering lock to lock. nor NVH levels are the same.
http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/taurus/pricing/

Ford is good value when ur comparing it with Acura TL/TSX V6 with there lack of performance/bad fuel economic. Ford will kill with depreciation/fuel economy/maintiance over 4 year period.
Here here we are comparing value for money with some degree of performance/economy/convenience (acceptable technology in suitable size)




here is another example from 2002 V6 A4 when reliability was not stellar.
zero maintiance cost for 24K miles. not even a brake job. by $24K miles.




Go back in history. In 1996 Integra cost $1600 to maintain for first 50K miles. It can easily translate into $3K for first 50K mile 2009 TSX. so that $3K is extra value that Audi brings to the table not including superior depreciation advantage.

 

A4 is as good as TSX in top safety pick. 5 star in all categories.
You cannot say the same about SHO. and SHO uses strut front suspension not the multilink suspension of A4/TSX. There some others differences like tri zone climate control/theft deterent radio. one year less warranty. Audi has 12 year warranty for Anti-corrision. basically u get what you paid.

 

The TSX V6 w/Tech package I looked at last night was stickered at $38,700.
Can't get a V6, or even a NA engine, in an A4, right?

Oh, and maintenance on a TSX is not going to be more than $300 per year except changing the brake pads and possibly rotors unless you are having the dealer do all of the maintenance.

 

B12 serive alone cost $500.not including brakejob/radiator flush etc. All Audi maintiance for 5 years is $740.


Why u will any one need V6 when performance is so good despite AWD/Auto transmission/All season tires.
Lets be honest V6 TSX dont give u the option of 6MT or Sport suspension/19inch summer performance/Sport interior at only $1500. not to mention AWD system. It is that special value for consumers. Everything for $35K if u dont order navigation package. Acura is basically imposing its standard package. which is not trait of luxury marque but tier 2 firm.

 

Don't argue with him.......l

 

But its fun! Heck half the time I can't understand his english.

 

To be fair, don't agree with him either, he'll still argue...

 

The B12 service at the dealer costs 2X what independent Acura/Honda specialists charge here.

Does the TSX need any of those options at "only $1500" to be a great handling car, compared to the Audi? Apparently the TSX already has the "sport" theme included, while the Audi has to be dressed up some more.
It sounds like Audi is selling a $35K stripper bargain basement car for those badge whores who aspire to a "luxury marque."
Why not? SSFTSX usually wrong on the facts, or doesn't have facts to support his assertions.
Amazing that such an Audi/VW fanboi actually chose a TSX-- probably because he realized what a rip-off the A4 is in comparison, or he hates driving loaner cars while the Audi dealer is doing free warranty repairs.

 

offcourse u can even go cheaper but for trade/sale it is better to have dealer seal on maintianance records.
It is very different kind of sport package. only M3 can pull 70mph slolam run on Edmunds test. This Audi was simple nose heavy 3.2 Auto







Nope. AWD/6MT starts at $32K. Throw sport package and ur at $33.5K. Only thing left is navigation package/bluetooth. I will pass the Bangolfsen system as no one uses DVD/CD anymore.

Amazing. i have been always providing facts from reputable magazines both in road tests and long term tests. No has proven yet how TSX is better value in long term when Brakes hardly last even 15K miles. and polarizing design/outdated tech/less sporty handling/lack of options have made the car less desirable for enthusiasts and used market. It was Ok for 2003 but not in 2009.

 

...and for the 3rd time, I still dunno why you bought a 2009 TSX. I mean its so clear to me now that you should be buying the A4. Is yours even a Tech?

 

$32K is the stripper with AWD. No DSG, no HID, no LED, no bluetooth, no 3 zone climate, no satellite radio, no memory seats, no no nothing...

USB port anyone?

Long term reliablity is solely based on brake wear. I don't think the TSX is an enthusiast car. LOL

 

He enjoys driving a car with "polarizing design/outdated tech/less sporty handling/lack of options." He must be a glutton for punishment.

 

Wrong again, according to Car & Driver!
The Audi A4 2.0T is a 4-cylinder with 4-cylinder performance- 0-60 was 6.7, quarter mile in 15.0@92 mph and stickered for $47,000+!!
See Car & Driver's actual testing at: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

That means the A4 is about as fast as the regular TSX.

Oh, first-drive tests by car rags on the 280 hp TSX V6 are running 0-60 in 5.9...
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=8141

- See Car & Driver above.
You are always throwing out assertions without links to supporting data- only a does that.

TSX V6 @ $39,000 > Much slower Audi A4 @ $47,000.
/thread.

 

Firstly u dont need 3 zone climate control unless u have family seating constantly in the back seat. Secondly for enthusiasts 6MT should be enough. why bother with DSG. thirdly memory seats are good for alternative driver. otherwise why bother changing seat position. I only agree with HID/LED. so just buy Premium Plus. i believe there is upgradation for 2010 in music interface with 3MMI.

difference between sport A4 and seats of TSX.

TSX seats.








thats good to know it is no enthusiats car.

 

I want a lid on my cup holder. That must be a part of the Cup Holder Prestige package.

 

He had no choice but to buy, the tires on his old TSX were getting worn out.

 

Wrong again. A4 in that particular test is 6speed Auto while 6.7sec time fro TSX is 6MT. And it is heavier quattro system. and in the same tests it beats TL-SHAWD.


Remember always compare apples to apples. A4 works in DSG for which is designed in EU or 6MT. CVT/6sp auto is compromised which is acceptable than 5speed auto to TSX.
On road&track A4 has similar performance. so whats the point of nose heavy/fuel guzzler/timing belt maintiancer car.
This is with 6speed auto & 3.2. just imagine 200lb lighter 6MT/2.0 quottro can do. It will put BMW 335RWD to shame. Two magazines have confirmed sport package superb performance.




$39K TSX 2010 dont have drive select/HDD navigation/blind spot/quttro/push button/rear camera with lines/adjustable lights/rear parking sensors nor the fuel economy of A4 2.0T. As i said always compare similarly equiped.

Bottom line is an enthusiast can buy 6MT/2.0quttro/sport package for $35K with handling, brakes, fuel economy,NVH, performance better or equal to TL-SHAWD/G37/335. and depreciation/maintiance cost fraction of all these as ther is no timing belt issue with superb brakes. This is called long term value for money.

 

LOL oh yeah I forgot

 

I think someone should follow his own advice.

$33k A4 does NOT have:
navigation, rear view camera, satellite weather, GPS dual zone climate, HID, bluetooth, power seat memory, heated seats, driver information computer, homelink, auto dimming mirror, ipod interface, mp3/wma capable cd changer, usb port, chrome trim around side windows, 415 watt amplifier, auto lights

Your value of money must be different from everyone else's. See above.

 

You aren't comparing apples to apples-- you posted that the A4 has V6 performance-- it doesn't-- it basically equals a TSX 4 cylinder manual, while costing $3000-4000 more.
The TSX with the V6 performance is $9,000 less than the highest-optioned equipped, but much slower, A4.

The A4 is the slowest of the beginning entry segment cars per option package (except for the up-sized and overweight 4G TL), with lower reliability (real and anticipated, per Consumer Reports) and a premium price.

Stripped-out FWD A4s are listed in the catalog-- feel free to show how easy it is to get one of those @ $37K, compared to the ease of getting a "stripped" TSX (without Tech pack or V6 ) at $33K. You'll find that Audi dealers will have mostly $45K loaded A4s.

 

Will Y. and katmai "it's a death spiral"

 

Its all or nothin baby! LOL

 

The A4 no longer has a 3.2.
We will have to imagine what the 2.0T manual Quattro can do, but we know that the Tiptronic one will be about even with the TSX 4 cyl. 6 speed manual, and the Tiptronic A4 will be sucking air behind the less expensive TSX V6.

I'm winning the race to the bottom!!!

 

A4 has AWD TSX has none. A4 has Auto. TSX has manual. A4 is heavier due to drive select. TSX has none. A4 is on 18inch TSX is on 17inch. Should it go on?. why do u think TL-SHAWD is so slow in the same test?

Quote:

The A4 is the slowest of the beginning entry segment cars per option package (except for the up-sized and overweight 4G TL), with lower reliability (real and anticipated, per Consumer Reports) and a premium price.

A4 is still faster than the TL-SHAWD in 0-120mph category despite having one hundred less bhp and no sport suspension for lower height and summer performance tirs.

Quote:

Stripped-out FWD A4s are listed in the catalog-- feel free to show how easy it is to get one of those @ $37K, compared to the ease of getting a "stripped" TSX (without Tech pack or V6 ) at $33K. You'll find that Audi dealers will have mostly $45K loaded A4s.

[/quote]
Choice is person to make. either spend money on TSX maintiance & brakes or buy navigation package for A4. Check the link above the White Audi that i posted and navigate through it. each Audi is individuall equiped different than the other. Some even have Adoptive Cruise control like RL. The critieria of luxury car maker is to give a choice. Prices are between $33K to $52K.

V6 TSX cannot match V6 A4 fuel economy in mountanous driving let alone 2.0T quattro. car is head & shoulder above TSX/TL.