I gotta admit, if I could afford a $40k car, I would consider an Ibis White A4 2.0T 6MT Premium Plus with Titanium Sport Package. It looks so clean!!!

As for BMWs, I never liked any of the 3 series interiors. So boring and ugly compared to other luxury manufacturers. Performance is great though.

 

ha... well this is pretty interesting stuff, actually -- how cultures express themselves in auto design. Fascinating things, really. The cultural imprint on steel and leather.

So, as Americans, I wonder why 'luxury' and 'exclusivity' align themselves so readily with German stoicism vs. Japanese Zen-gardenism?

We beat'em both in WWII, so it's not like one was more or less impressive than the other...

 

I just bought a TSX V6 Base having test driven the A4 2.0T, a new 328i and used '08 335i and 535. Without a doubt the 335 was the performance and style leader for me. But, I have to agree with others regarding the interior. I find my TSX seat way more comfortable than the bimmers and the cockpit a lot more satisfying ergo-wise. The Audi seat however was at least as good as the TSX.

The decision to go auto was a tough one I have to admit, but I really do like the paddle shifters. I love the way you can run auto mode but down/up shift at any time and then return to auto, "automatically".

I've owned 12 manual Hondas (including motorcycles) and Acuras and I found the shifter and clutch throws long in the 3 series. Definitely not as crisp and smooth as Honda/Acura.

I was ultimately swayed by the value and reliability. I can't stand the way the German manufacturers nickel and dime all the good stuff like HIDs and leather. By the time you price a comparably equip'd model you're up around $50K the way I see it. And as far as reliability, as I mentioned before I've had a lot of Hondas/Acuras and keep coming back to the well 'cause I haven't been burned yet.

 

As an owner of a 2009 TSX, and an 04 G35....I don't think anyone here who owns either car would actually take these over an A4 @ similar price.


TSX is a great car, but I'd take the A4 over it in a heartbeat. The prices + tech package is what made me get the TSX over the IS250, 3, and A4 in the first place.

 

Well, to be fair, the 2009 TSX (4 cyl) is nowhere near the price of a similarly equipped A4. The only way the A4 and TSX get price competitive is when you look at the V6 TSX Tech. That V6 price bump moves a value sport-luxury car into striking range of the ~$40k sport luxury segment.

This A4/TSX issue for me is actually complex. Hear me out:

If I find that I really enjoy the TSX 4-cyl Tech 6MT fine enough, then the A4 really is out of the running, because we're talking ~$9k (30%) difference in price between the cars outfitted with the features I desire. Notice that I did not say similarly-equipped... they're not. It's not like the TSX is $9k cheaper for essentially the same car. Sure, they're both 4cyl, but the A4 has turbo, QUATTRO and a bunch of tech that the TSX does not have for that extra 30%.

If I find that I really don't like the V6 Tech TSX (due to automatic transmission and/or raw performance), then I have a quandary -- do I look at a "similarly priced/equipped" A4 at that point, or go down to the 4cyl TSX Tech and save 30%? I think that'll come down to how much I love the A4 ride, and how much I can adjust to its ergonomics. Like I mentioned in a post above, the interior is gorgeous, but it's not instantly use-friendly to me.

A big A4 usability buggaboo for me: There are no distinct buttons (up/down or direct click) for radio presets. It's all scroll-wheel access! I know it's weird, but this really bums me out. Also, I found the NAVI interface to be bizarre. But perhaps that's just me not used to German thinking. Who knows?

I know radio presents isn't about auto performance. But selecting radio presets is probably the most common activity I conduct in my car other than driving. So, it's up there in terms of importance to my driving experience.

I'm kind of torn - I'm sort of hoping that I really prefer the base 6MT Tech TSX so I can save a lot of money and not think about the A4. But at the same time, I was kinda sorta looking forward to the umph of the V6 (even though I was not looking forward to going auto transmission).

And when I think about giving up manual for performance in a V6 TSX, it suddenly lands me back in the land of A4 -- performance AND the option for MT!

Silly Acura -- not giving me choices is giving a loyal customer an excuse to play the field...

 

This is the thread that will just not die.

 

Former A4 (1.8t ugh) owner here. F that car and it's repair costs. at 77k miles it started falling apart. Powersteering rack leaking, TRansmission blown, heated seats broke, oil light always came on even tho I replaced the faulty pump.. And let's not even get into the suspension parts that fail after 10k miles of replacement.

No thanks.

 

Interesting discussion, but very much a previous-decade set of priorities. You want a V6? Really? Remember the comparison test that Jeff at Temple of VTec did about 5 years ago, comparing a 1G TSX with a 6MT Accord V6 coupe? The Accord blew the TSX away in the straights, but couldn't keep up in the curves. Personally I can't get that interested in a front-heavy FWD car. The quattro is too heavy for my taste.

As for buying a new car, I recommend waiting a year. I can't remember a time when there was so much flux in the auto industry. Here are a few of the cars I am waiting for:

1. 2012 Ford Fusion. I kid you not. Beginning in 2012 model year, Ford is going to build the new European Ford Mondeo here in the U.S, and re-badge it as the next Ford Fusion. Ford Mondeo competes with European Accord, aka TSX. Ford's direct-injection engines and dual turbos are the new definition of modern. If they offer the 5-door body style here, I'm probably buying one.

2. 2011/12 VW GLI. The GLI based on the new model doesn't come out until next year. I am hoping the TDI Cup edition will be based on the GLI. In either case, this car will have more rear leg room than a TL. If it goes fast around corners and gets good gas mileage, it makes my list.

3. 2012 Buick Regal. Rumor has it, they will offer a manual tranny next year. Just like Ford, Buick has now internationalized some of their models. The Regal is an Opel except for the grill.

4. Suzuki Kasashi, if they offer a hybrid or a turbo four with a manual.

5. TSX hybrid, if it shows up in time. I would have bought a diesel TSX last fall, but they cancelled it. A hybrid with the current 4 would be faster than the V6, I think. More to the point, it would get over 30 mpg city. I want it all, baby!

I still can't wrap my head around an electric car. They seem like perfect commuter cars, but I drive my car on weekend road trips several times a year. It doesn't seem like a fit.

Audi and BMW just don't make my list. The A3 has the right "pushy urban car" attitude, but the back seat just doesn't cut it. The A4 and BMW 3-series are too expensive for what you get.

 

That was exactly my analysis, substituting the BMW 328i for the A4. I drove the TSX 6MT a few times, and liked it enough that I wasn't willing to spend another $10k for the BMW. Even at that price, the BMW would not have been loaded. I would have added Sport and Cold Weather packages, and that's about it. Not even a sunroof. With the Sport package, I would have needed to add a winter wheel/tire set for another two grand. It was just too much.

Iceman, great post about upcoming models. I'll add that the next gen BMW 3 Series will have turbo fours as their base engines. BMW is getting serious about efficiency, and my guess is that we'll see about 220 hp with 35 mpg highway. That could be very tempting.

 

Seems like a 3G TL-S 6MT would fit your requirements quite well (V6, 6MT, touch-screen nav, FWD, reliability, price). Even if "brand new" is a requirement I'm sure there are low mileage, 2008 models out there in near-perfect condition

 

Hey, that's a really smart point. Thanks for thinking 'out of the box!'

However... I've never quite bit a fan of the TL. Not sure why. Just not my kind of car.

I keep on doing research on the A4 to learn more about it. I'm kind of surprised that the forums around the A4 are not as energetic or as interesting as those here around the TSX!

 

Hey, Jon.

Just put my 1998 A4 out to pasture. I'm hooked on the German interiors, power, handling, etc., and find myself seriously drawn to a new A3 (can't really afford an A4) but I'm fighting the urge to buy an Audi (or any German car) again. I'd just have to be a lot wealthier than I am to stomach all the upkeep costs. Suffice to say, every Audi driver seems to take the same hits once the thing goes out of warranty, including, but not limited to, tranny, steering, suspension, fuel pump, oil pump, etc. My timing belt jumped and facing a 2nd new head, I've decided to put her down. $3k to fix and it's still a beat up 13-yr-old car with a saggy headliner, ragged leather and degrading plastic parts at this point. No way a Japanese car can give that kind of trouble for a mere 120k miles.

Sad to say, I'm really not a fan of many of the Japanese (or Korean) offerings. Can't do an Accord or Camry, not only because they're not that great to look at but because I don't want to feel like I'm getting into a rental every time I drive my car. Although the Infinitis don't do it for me, I have some love for the higher-end Nissans but what I'm thinking at the moment is that I'll buy an IS 250. As a former Saab and Audi owner, I don't really feel like I'm the right demo for this car but everything about it is tight and well thought out and you don't get nickled-and-dimed for upper level finishing the way you would with a German car.

Sounds like you have a little more money to spend than I do but are facing a similar conundrum. As far as the TSX goes, I loved one I drove about 6 years ago but man did they ugly it up in the latest iteration--that front grill couldn't look more like a plastic Transformer happy-meal toy if they'd had a licensing deal with Michael Bay.

While the IS 250 lacks anything vaguely Euro in its styling, it does have a bit of carpy-Batmobile sleekness to it that has caught my eye since the 2009 redesign--it's definitely the best looking chassis in the otherwise boring Lexus line. If I were rich, I'd think about buying an IS-F (but if I were rich, I'd get an RS4 and not care about the upkeep). Like you, I have sat in the newer A4's and found them wanting on the interior/ergo front, which is kind of unforgivable since that's what you buy an Audi for. In the end, the IS 250 may be slightly underpowered but for the most part, it's definitely a pleasure to drive. Took my boss' from L.A. up to Monterey a few months back and did not hate that one bit. Getting into it after a long day of work is like checking into a high-end hotel on the business trip of life.