SSFTSX

Motortrend is recommending TSX over TL
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...iew/index.html
If you want your car to be as sporty as it is practical, though, the V-6 is the one for you. It’s better looking than the TL, and if you opt for the V-6, it’s faster, too.

jackspat2

I think were all old school here. We expect product lines to follow a certain order. Acura caters to the general public which don't care if the car has 1 mpg better gas mileage then g37 or has 14.343 less hp. I know a lot of people who buy cars with zero research other than word of mouth and brand loyalty.

I do agree that Acura needs to get with it. As a car enthusiast, I would not buy the v6 tsx over the i4 or the tl. The v6 tsx has no value IMO. It's biggest drawback is no rwd. WTF. G37 owns it up and down.

hcshao

I curious to hear Acura's reasoning for this pricing because they're not boneheads. I can get the auto only part for now, manual represents what ... 5% of their annual sales (i was reading that here somewhere)?

CL6

Good point! Research has shown that Americans are the most brand loyal people on earth.

Tigmd99

Agreed with some above...G37 is a better value than V6 TSX. If your ONLY argument is slightly better crash testing, then it is a shameful one! Remember, the G37 has Active headrest...and this will likely elevate its rear crash scores to GOOD. While this may not be enough to be class-leading, i doubt that this slight difference will be significant. On the other hand, RWD with a very nice powerful engine + advance 7-speed auto are significant factors for people like me. Of course, the reason i went with the TSX 4-cyl is because of its price and value. The TSX V6 has none of that.

In other words, IF i had 36K to spare, then i would get G37 over TSX V6 anyday of the week.

Colin

2009+ TSX also has active headrests

Tigmd99

Yup...i know. Again, i don't think that the crash test results are that far apart b/w the two vehicles...certainly not far enough to really sway one consumer to one particular brand. However, RWD, very advance 7-speed auto, more powerful engine, etc. are significant IMHO at the $36k price range.

lcrazyaznl

iTrader: (1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilFZkhE-h0A

anyone watch this video it bounces quite a bit haha
0-60 6.4 seconds
wow never thought i'd see it pass 7.6 haha

HeavyDuty

Buying a car is an emotional decision. There are those who can remain totally pragmatic, but they're in the minority.

If one likes something for whatever reason, they can overlook mountains of evidence to the contrary in order to satisfy their desire.

MMC Racing

Check....

After owning the G37 for 3 weeks now - all I can say is what a difference. The car gets up and moves. The bluetooth actually works like it should and the car can be driven hard enough to actually justify use of the paddle shifters.

So here is to letting Acura be Acura..! Salute!

Farage

330hp > 200hp...

CL6

3.5! Nice!!!

MMC Racing

480 > 200 also.. Math is fun.

JD23

$80,000 >> $30,000

dom

330 for the price of 280 > *

Colin

OK, it wasn't clear that you knew that tidbit which is why I added my

The person looking for a "RWD, very advance 7-speed auto, more powerful engine car" is probably valuing performance over safety.

However, remember that the "star ratings" are as follows:
5 Stars = 10 percent or less chance of injury
4 Stars = 11-20 percent chance of injury

There is as little as a 10% or as much as 20% (I know, it's not that likely) spread between the two cars. For some, it might be a buying decision. (personally, I hope anyone like that would just go to Volvo....)

CraigMacDTA

Personally, I haven't driven a V6 TSX yet, but I would choose a TSX V6 over a Base FWD TL anyday. I really can't stand the look of those 17" wheels on the TL.

Tigmd99

You're quoting NHTSA data where the difference between frontal crash test risk is only 8%. Side crash test results are the same. NHTSA does not test rear end collision.

Either way, you're right...TSX does better than G sedan in a crash...by a small margin. How significant that margin is depends on the buyer i guess. However, the TSX is not a Volvo nor is it a family sedan...it is supposedly a sports sedan for young people, according to Acura literature. As such, i would assume that most people who buy the TSX are more or less sports car-oriented...they are looking for performance and value. And this is where the TSX V6 falls way behind the G sedan.

Don't get me wrong, at the $30k dollar mark, the TSX is a great deal...and thus, we bought one. My other alternative was a Camry/Accord. So, it was an easy choice. However, when you raise the mark to $35-38k, the TSX does not seem like a great value nor a great sports car anymore. You're hitting prime sports car territory, where every car manufacturer has a hand in. Now, if the TSX V6 was around $32k, then i would definitely think that it is a good deal.

Colin

According to Acura Literature, it's not really for that young a buyer:
I'm going to have to watch this closer, but I'm quite sure that many people take the manufacturer at face value only when it supports their position. For example we say "according to Acura literature" as if what they are saying is what they are really meaning. So let's try to look past the literature.

For example, according to Mazda's party line, their products are equals to Acura's. They even stole the Acura penta grill design (I blame Mazda for the change to the power plenum). They are essentially trying to cast an aura over the brand but comparing themselves to a (supposedly) "higher" brand.

In the same way, Acura compares themselves to Lexus, BMW etc as a way to show how we are a better value than the others. If we separate the marketing "message" from the product what do we have? We have a very well equipped sedan for under 40K that offers a reasonable of space, Japan assembly, V-6 power, and items standard that are options elsewhere. It's not really that bad. It's bad if you want RWD, but so is an ES350, A4, Saab or S40 (I know this can be had with AWD but humor me).

Seriously, we're dancing on the head of a pin, obviously the car won't be for everybody. But at >20% of >40,000 a year, there won't be that many anyway. I don't see why everyone is so excited about it .... either way.

Colin

I just took ours for a spin. It felt pretty good. It cornered flat, it is very possible that it is firmer than a base TL. The steering felt a little heavier, but it was still pretty precise and quick. I didn't notice that downshifts with the paddle shifters produced the same 'blip' that the AWD TL has, but it didn't jerk or unsettle the car mid-corner.

Tigmd99

Is the TSX really aimed at the ES350 crowd??? Again, according to literature AND Acura TV commercials, the TSX is aimed towards the younger crowd, not the old farts of ES350.

CraigMacDTA

We're still waiting for ours up here in Canada! Apparently, we're all getting ONE for the first month as a demo and we're supposed to take orders

TheAcAvenger

It's been a long time since I've made a post on AZine, but what does the G37 have to do with the conversation? Not everyone cares which one handles better, and hardly anyone who actually buys one of them will care about torque steer. Performance minded consumers are not the norm. Otherwise AZine would have hundreds of thousands of users.

I'm looking for a second car to drive to work. The only requirements are that it's Japanese and NOT rwd.

I CAN'T be the only one who sat back 4 years ago saying "I would get a TSX if it had more power." Now it does, and i'm very, very interested. Let's face it, the TL became too big. It left a void where the old TL's used to be and the TSX V6 fits in nicely.

Is the G more for the money? If you want 50 more horses and RWD, yes. But if you don't, then it's a tossup. 280 is more than adequate, and you're only going to notice the torque steer off the line. As long as it corners flat and has good passing power, it should be a good buy. I'm looking forward to the test drive.

R*D*X*

i wonder why tsx doesnt have turbocharge engine like the RDX. I think that will be more sportier having i4 turbo compare to v6 engine.. IMO

dom

Because they're about the same price. That makes them competitors.

TheAcAvenger

It doesn't fit.

TheAcAvenger

But what does the competition have to do with declaring one of them a waste of money. A new TSX V6 is similar size-wise, power-wise, tech wise (relative to age) to the last generation TL... and they're priced similarly. If the last TL wasn't a waste of money, how is the new one? Just because Infinti makes a G37 that's a nice bang for the buck?

dom

You'll have to ask the OP that question. Do I think its a waste of money? No. Do I think its a poor value? Yes. Especially when compared to the 4 cylinder TSX. 18" wheels and a V6 don't equate to $5,500 IMO.

I think the point trying to made here is that the 1st gen and 2nd gen 4 cylinder were without question great values. The V6 isn't Try not to pay too much attention to the attention seeking title of the thread.

Tigmd99 said it best a few posts up.

TheAcAvenger

I didn't even realize it was a $5500 difference. That's insane.

You've been here since the dawn of time, Dom.

dom

Not that long. I signed up right after they took Jesus off the cross.

Farage

dom

He was supporting your point. He owns G37 and a GT-R which explains the 480.

HeavyDuty

Because we're fata$$ Americans who want torque and you can only get that with a V6, right? You'll get no love on this subject here, brother, aside from me, that is.

Have you tried it?

I think Farage was doing that as a tongue heavily embedded in cheek comment, but I dig the smiley anyway.

Colin

Who knows? I will say that not all advertising is necessarily truthful. Ask yourself this: Is advertising really targeted at the demographic, or is it targeted to how the demographic views themselves?. A Corvette projects a youthful image, but who really buys it? Middle aged empty nesters who view themselves as that young, youthful guy.

The V-6 TSX material says they're looking for an older buyer than the I4. Maybe they are targeting the same demo as the ES, but looking for someone who says exactly what you are saying: ie I don't see myself as an "old fart" ES350 buyer.

dom

The K23 turbo makes more torque than the 3.5 at a lower RPM. If you believe Colin, which I do. Honda isn't too happy with the 2.3 Turbo and we're unlikely to see it used in anything else. And if they're aiming the V6 at a more mature audience then a more refined V6 over a Turbo would probably be the better way to do it.


Missed that

HeavyDuty

Yeah, I know, we need a facitious smiley.

I'm getting way off subject now, but it sucks the insiders are digging their heels in on killing the K23T.

Colin

Who knows, maybe they'll fit the turbo engine to the next coupe? That might be a good home for that motor. Then again, maybe Acura doesn't want to deal with warranty issues that 'tuners' would raise if the turbo motor was in a sports coupe?

Tigmd99

Although the turbo engine is nice, but doesn't it eat gas like there's no tomorrow??!! I would rather have the V6...personally, i will always prefer NA over force induction for smoothness and durability.

Colin, Chevy does not advertise the Corvette with old farts having midlife crisis. Acura is clearly going after young successful people...yuppies (sp?). Yeah, there will be infants and grandpas buying the TSX, but Acura is aiming mainly towards the young well-off crowd. Therefore, i would argue with TheAcAvenger that the people who buy TSX do indeed care a little bit about performance. If they did not, then why did Acura come out with SH-AWD?? (Many may disagree, but i believe that SH-AWD was made to put RWD'ness in a Honda Accord FWD platform.)

Why would you not want RWD and 50 more horses for the same asking price?? I understand some will argue that FWD is better in snow/bad weather, but TIRE CHOICE is probably the single most important factor in that situation. Isn't a dedicated platform worth anything over a cookie cutter platform based on a boring family sedan?? (No offense to other Accord/TSx owners, but you know what i mean.)

I can go on and on, but my point is that the TSX V6 asking price is astronomically too high. The asking price puts it in the middle of what is probably the most competitive automotive class. And in that class, you have sports car minded people buying cars. (Again, i don't think that an ES350 potential buyer will even bat an eye at the TSX...they are looking for quiet soft luxury...and this includes ES, Avalon, Buick, etc..)

Tigmd99

NOW, you understand what we're talking about! So, a TSX V6 with TECH is around $38,000 (with TTL, you're looking at over $40k!!)!! For a plain TSX V6, you're looking at $35k (with TTL, you're looking at over $37k). Discounts will probably be hard to come by at this time because Acura just released it. Earlier this year, we almost bought a Infiniti G35 sedan with premium package, wood interior, automatic, a few other things for $36,000 out the door (TTL included)! I am sure that you can a similar deal in a few months (if not already) with the G37. So, yeah, even when Acura discounts the TSX V6, it is STILL playing in the G37 pricing territory! And that is the problem that I and others envision for Acura.

Colin

This is where you are totally missing my point. Yes, Chevy does not market the vette to older mid-lifers. They are marketing the image of a youthful car and this is what attracts the mid-lifer who ultimately buys the car.

So (IMO) when Acura says it is a sports sedan, they might be marketing the sporty image to the person who might otherwise buy an ES but views it as an 'old persons car'.