sr20bet

Many manufactures use leather seats due to the public's perception of luxury and 'higher class' status of such surface materials. Other than ease of cleaning and the psychological induced aspects of the materials (feeling good, etc...). I would say leather is only good if you plan on keeping your car for a few years, otherwise it will start to show its age unless you take care of it religiously.

Typically the areas which show the most wear are the upper and lower side bolsters.







I think manufactures should start using synthetics on the side bolster areas to prevent this from happening. If people want leather they can still use it on the main surface areas, but for durability and cosmetic reasons synthetics would be better over the long haul.

The only area where I could see synthetics lose out is in auto review and the such, as they would say the seats are not 100% leather and what not. But they only review the car when it is new, if they were to do a long term review of a used car 5 years down the road, they would see the benefits of synthetic materials on side bolsters. In addition it would be upto consumers to understand the benefits and disadvantages of each system.

I've owned cars with cloth, leather, synthetics (bmw & mercedes) and I would choose cloth and synthetics over leather if I were to keep my car for the long haul. I've compared my 2005 bmw with the synthetic leatherette vs. a 2005 bmw with real leather and the car with real leather has more wear and tear on the seats (and the guy took decent care of this leather).

Here's an old seat from a e46 bmw still holding up well after many years of service.



I'm happy I sold my VW with leather seats (the seats were still 9/10 when I sold the car, but when I met up with the buyer recently for coffee I asked to take a look at the car and I noticed the seats have deteriorated to about 6/10 after 3 years.

I'm happy with the leatherette in my e46. It's still 9/10 after 6 years and doesn't show any signs of advanced aging.

I would consider a honda/acura with leather if they offered a blend of synthetic materials and marketed the benefits of such items to the public. However they will never market such benefits as business are in the model of upselling and projection images of luxury to end users.

I'll start a follow up thread in the coming days/weeks for those that like to use leather exclusively on all seating surfaces.

It would be great to get the feed back of members regarding the aforementioned.

sr20bet

Acura Integra seats didn't show up in my original post:

KillerG

if you drive to canada, you can get yourself a swanky cloth seat TSX

VQPower37

im with the OP on this ... if acura had offered a synthetic leather or even cloth i would've taken it over the leather ... leather looks nice when its new and not used, but as soon as its starts creasing and stretching it looks terrible

sr20bet

Actually I'm a dual citizen (us/canadian) and have lived in both countries and also other countries globally.

I would like to thank you for your constructive criticism. I'm sure your family is proud your articulate mannerism which you use to express your thoughts.

If I'm ever in the hood and need to learn some more street slang I'll be sure to PM you.

sr20bet

See KillerG - IQ beats streetQ on forums. word up mf

KillerG

yo dawg, if you ever need a tutorial in thugonomics, hit me up, ill drop the motha f***ing bomb on ya

my family is MAD proud of me tho now that you mention it

nj2pa2nc

After awhile cloth seats also get the creasing and they seem to be alot harder to keep clean.

09TSXTech

In Europe, you can get a combination of both, fabric in the middle and leather on side, they call it sports upholstery.

sr20bet

Cloth has a higher life cycle but is harder to keep clean. A hybrid seating surface would make the most sense.

VQPower37

^agreed esp after seeing the sports upholstery. I wonder how much it would cost to get an upholstery shop to do this

sr20bet

Pics of old school Acura Legend seats (not mine):

ed_423

damn thats bad

b.ike

wow the sports upholstery looks awesome.

How come every "it would be nice if our Acura had..." we bring up, the Euro Accord seems to have as a feature already? Can't help but feel a bit more disappointed every time this happens oo;;

And that comparison pic. Im gonna get nightmares now

sr20bet

From a marketing point of view, Honda wants end users to 'feel' that acura is a 'higher' brand than honda and it's done a decent job of conveying this in their marketing lingo.

However as you noted, it's quite sad when the honda accord for the global market (minus north america) can have more desirable features than the acura version of the CU2.

We need some acura / honda needs to read more of these forum post. Even hyundai reacts to solid feedback from their cars and implements changes in the following year(s).

KillerG

well, there is no "acura" in other countries, so honda does double duty as a lux/non-lux brand. Other markets demand other things, plus there is always gonna be a price difference to consider. Im sure if we had some of the shit like CMBS and other doo-dads it would put the TSX directly in the firing range of things like the 3-series (price wise) and that would not be a wise decision on Acura's part.

I am also confident in saying that a lot of us looked at the Acura because of the great price and because we felt we were getting alot of value for the money we paid.

I too would love if the TSX had all the features that the euro accord did, but im sure there are alot more factors in play than we might be considering,

yo.

sr20bet

Great post.

Honda tries to sell as many Accords, Civics and CR-V's as possible. This is their bread and butter and these cars are made in north america (less trade barriers, more margins, etc...)

The acura brand was created to get more margins and elevate the brand, but there's no point to decontent the car when certain upgrades cost very little in terms of oem cost at the factory level. I'm sure many people would be willing to pay a couple of hundred to get the Accord Euro sports suspension, instead of spending 2k to get the upgrade after the purchase of the car.

Acura needs to create a category Killa, instead of creating cars that are good enough to sell.

How much more do you think it would cost Acura to create a car with all the features of the top of the line Accord Euro? Not asking how much more they would charge the end user, but how much more in oem parts at the manufacture's level. I don't see that there would be any more labor for any of these factory installs (marginal cost increast at best).

Acura might want to charge the end user another 10k over the base for these features and people might say....'ya it's worth it', but it might only cost honda them a little to implement these upgrades......As Hyundai will have more stardard features than acura, if acura doesn't up their game.

It's like the Tech package, how much more do you think it cost honda in parts vs the base model stereo/speakers? Maybe $300~450 more if I had to guess.

KillerG

They will get there eventually, once they realize that the Korean offerings (hyundai / kia) are offering as much as they are at a better price. I think with the way the curent markets trending that Honda is in for a rude awakening. Even grandma/grandpa toyota has a supercar and they have a rwd sports coupe on the way in 2013...


To be honest Acura needs to do ALOT of stuff to up their game in the USDM. I spent some time in europe recently and barely saw any Honda's there either so I wonder what they are thinking lately. In europe even though the CU2 commands a lot of hip features you could just buy a bmw diesel or so for a similar price and be done with it.

Here they are definitely aiming for a very specific market slot right between the mid size juggernauts (accord/altima/camry) and the entry level sports/luxo models (a4/c300/325i). Now that the koreans are playing hardball one of the bigger selling points for the TSX is the luxury brand name. In a few more years thats not gonna be enough to carry it around though

If they make it TOO nice then its going to get eaten alive by the germans, plus since its FWD its not gonna very popular with enthusiasts either.

The most direct competition i see for it is the nissan maxima, similar features/price. downside nissan. upside v6! also, maybe, a super basic a4 with fwd.


While it may cost only 300-450 more to install the ELS system on OEM end, lets say, if they made it a basic feature then that means that that 300-450 cost multiplies across the entire range costing Acura millions for a feature that some people might not want and as for the people that do want it, well, they could just charge us a premium price for it, so its like win/win for them.

this conversation definitely merits its own thread!

09TSXTech

Don't forget they do not have the TL outside of North America, it's the Accord or Legend (Our Acura RL) in Japan and Europe. The 2012 TL comes with available SH-AWD/ keyless start and Blind Spot Information System etc, put those features in the TSX and the TL sales will be in jeopardy. And since the TL is manufacture in the US along the same line with the USDM Accord, the profit margin is higher.

KillerG

yeah, dont wanna step on the tl's toes. Sh-AWD and keyless go are two of the biggest sellings points that the TL boasts over the Acura. And the TL, like the TSX, boasts a price advantage over the 5/E/A6 competition.

The RL has to go at some point, it needs a clean slate or a euthanization

VQPower37

^ i doubt the RL will ever be discontinued, as its Acura's flagship, I am sure they have some big plans for it when they redesign it, but its gonna be a lot more expensive im sure

sr20bet

I think acura/honda would like most ppl to buy any other acura other than the tsx. I think they want to use the tsx as a gateway...kindalike a gateway drug...before addicts take on more serious stuff, b/c the tsx is more affordable....but there is more profit on the other cars.

Acura will never gain a very solid foot hold in the european market for their performance cars, b/c europeans tend to upkeep their cars better than north americans. We let out cars turn to clunkers for the most part in north america (not talking about those on this forum...the the average blow joe out there that only fixes things when broken). In any event I think decontent of the tsx is a mistake and will not help acura in north america gain market share. the koreans are doing the right thing and they are slowly gaining marketing share.

However, I think acura/honda will need to up their game in the entry level offerings, b/c I think the koreans will be changing the game in the years to come. There is a stigma against the korean cars is due to brand stigma. However, if you removed the brand some of their cars are pretty decent for first attempts. e.g. the hyundai genesis coupe and sedan are solid offerings that offer better value than it's competitors. I person believe that if the genesis cars were rebranded acura, had higher residuals, that many people would buy them. However the brand stigma and marketing prevents people from judging the cars, b/c they already prejudged the brands.

The koreans are coming (I'm not korean by the way And there is very little that Acura / Honda can do to thwart them.....

sr20bet

had put this on another tread...but thought it's more useful for this thread...:



The Acura leather is average, however all leather will age with enough use. Taking care of the leather will prolong it's service life and let it age well, but it will still age. All materials age, I guess it depends what your are looking for from your 'surface' materials. You want to feel special? impress your friends? feel comfortable? have better aging? etc....it depends what you want. Each materials have it's pros and cons.

I would prefer seats that are cloth with the option of having different types of covers, leather....etc....That way it's more flexible and easier to maintain in the long term....more options.

I wish honda would come out with a type r tsx and outfit it with Recaro seats. That would be bomb a$$


[IMG]The Acura leather is average, however all leather will age with enough use. Taking care of the leather will prolong it's service life and let it age well, but it will still age. All materials age, I guess it depends what your are looking for from your 'surface' materials. You want to feel special? impress your friends? feel comfortable? have better aging? etc....it depends what you want. Each materials have it's pros and cons.

I would prefer seats that are cloth with the option of having different types of covers, leather....etc....That way it's more flexible and easier to maintain in the long term....more options.

I wish honda would come out with a type r tsx and outfit it with Recaro seats. That would be bomb a$$
The Acura leather is average, however all leather will age with enough use. Taking care of the leather will prolong it's service life and let it age well, but it will still age. All materials age, I guess it depends what your are looking for from your 'surface' materials. You want to feel special? impress your friends? feel comfortable? have better aging? etc....it depends what you want. Each materials have it's pros and cons.

I would prefer seats that are cloth with the option of having different types of covers, leather....etc....That way it's more flexible and easier to maintain in the long term....more options.

I wish honda would come out with a type r tsx and outfit it with Recaro seats. That would be bomb a$$

The Acura leather is average, however all leather will age with enough use. Taking care of the leather will prolong it's service life and let it age well, but it will still age. All materials age, I guess it depends what your are looking for from your 'surface' materials. You want to feel special? impress your friends? feel comfortable? have better aging? etc....it depends what you want. Each materials have it's pros and cons.

I would prefer seats that are cloth with the option of having different types of covers, leather....etc....That way it's more flexible and easier to maintain in the long term....more options.

I wish honda would come out with a type r tsx and outfit it with Recaro seats. That would be bomb a$$

The Acura leather is average, however all leather will age with enough use. Taking care of the leather will prolong it's service life and let it age well, but it will still age. All materials age, I guess it depends what your are looking for from your 'surface' materials. You want to feel special? impress your friends? feel comfortable? have better aging? etc....it depends what you want. Each materials have it's pros and cons.

I would prefer seats that are cloth with the option of having different types of covers, leather....etc....That way it's more flexible and easier to maintain in the long term....more options.

I wish honda would come out with a type r tsx and outfit it with Recaro seats. That would be bomb a$$

http://img523.imageshack.us/f/mitsubishilancerevo9mr2oh5.jpg[/IMG]

sr20bet

sr20bet

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/2...evo9mr2oh5.jpg

sr20bet

KillerG

even though our seats gonna look like shit in a few years, i gotta say, they are pretty damn comfy at the moment

headrest is awesome too for once

sr20bet

if only the drivers side gets messed up with time, it's worth buying a newly salvaged seat in a few years to replace your worn seat (if 5 - 7 years have passed) if you want to have new leather again. It's an option for those that like oem leather.

dominik331

I like this euro Accord color combo