amadeus303

iTrader: (2)

Colin - I'd generally agree with you, but wasn't it Dave Marek (Honda R&D's chief designer) that said in summer '07 that they wanted to rival Bentley and Maybach in performance and design? I'm not ignorant enough to think that he meant this literally, but I don't believe you say something like that unless you're willing to take *some* risks. I feel that Honda is being much more adventurous with its products, while Acura is being ultra conservative... especially with the individual management entities that now own them. Ironically, it's Acura --- not Honda --- that needs to be a little more adventurous to succeed.

Colin

Well yes and no. Look at all the whining abount ONE element of the TSX design (I'll let you guess which one) and you can see that even if the brand wanted to move, the customers are not ready to follow.

This is not directed solely at you, but to all the people who keep bringing up the 'tier 1' crap. A move in this direction does not happen at once. If they really mean it*, then the product they are planning now are the ones to move in this direction. These will follow normal 'car cycles' and start hitting the roads in 3 years.

*If they really mean it is another story. Personally I do not believe you can get up in front of the automotive press and proclaim proudly "we are seeking to establish ourselves as a "Tier 2" luxury brand. So I take it with a grain of salt....

amadeus303

iTrader: (2)

^^^I'm still cautiously optimistic that a potential TSX Type-S in a few years... or quite possibly the redesigned TL or TL Type-S in a few years (if they don't get too large) will keep me in the "fam". I'm still quite happy with my '05, so I don't plan on *really* considering another vehicle until at least 2010.

Of course, I said that about all of my past vehicles. Until I got the TSX, I never kept any of my cars (all purchased new) for more than 1.5 years... I get the itch frequently. I guess part of me was hoping that the new designs would warrant another change

amadeus303

iTrader: (2)

Absolutely agree... although I don't believe that they have pushed the tech, performance, or styling in the new TSX at all. This makes sense to me if the TL is really where they'll feature the "step up" as it finally seems that SH-AWD will make it into another sedans outside of the RL.

As for the "element" you speak of... unfortunately, I think it's just a bad fit for the sedans. I think it looks EXCELLENT on the MDX, which I do believe is the most handsome looking lux SUV on the market right now.

Colin

It is a thinly disguised fact that the TL will feature SH in some trim level so I think AWD is on the way to being in every car except the TSX which must remain an entry level sedan.

Although I disagree with your feeling about the TSX's front, I do agree it looks 'forced' on the RL. I love the way you've referred to the "the Element"! Maybe it will be like Voldemort 'He whose name is not spoken" A new Acurazine tradition is born! We shall never speak of "IT" again.....heretofore it will be only called "The Element"

amadeus303

iTrader: (2)

Here here... ROFL

davidspalding

Proboscis ...

Or, since it keeps reminding me of Hopper in A BUG'S LIFE ... Overbite.

Colin

To obvious. Like the Secret Compartment in S2000s, this could be legendary among those 'in the know'

davidspalding

?? (emphasis added)

TheAcAvenger

As a former TL-S driver and current 335i driver in the market for a beater, there is something inherently nice about the mere fact that the tsx is japanese. Those of us that already have relatively fast second cars are attracted to the tsx because it won't have 1/100th of the problems of its german rivals, is much less expensive to maintain, and it has the tech that its rivals lack (my 02 tl-s had better navigation than this 07 bmw without question). It is a bit discouraging to see the price move up so much, but I think the TSX will have a nice niche market of people who want a nice car that is still low key and that don't need a lot of power. The accord fits this bill as well, but the TSX has an inherent sporty image even if its not even sporty anymore.

Colin

This video is part 2 of a longer documentary I made for our S2000s. In it I interviewed the guys (and gals) in our local owner group about how they like their cars etx. (Part 1 talks about the beginnings of Honda motor co and the NSX and S2000s.)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9W5KezKcVu8

Mokos23

i agree

umhaha84

lol
i'm surprised nobody has mentioned hyundai genesis.
RWD with V8 around 35k

sounds like a good deal.

freeperjim

Also to consider is the MB300 Sport and IS250. Both ~ $32k, RWD and a shorter (180"), more personal sized (2+2) length that made the BMW3-series so popular. The new TSX has grown to camry-like (mid sized and getting close to full size) length which makes it less appealing to me.

The MB300 Sport offers MUCH more HP and torque.

Hmmmm, I wonder if acura will offer the Sports4 design in an RSX-like size for the 3-series sized market?

Lion-O

I am just following up with some corrections to my post saying that the 09 TSX Canada is a rip off:

09 TSX
Base = $32,900 (Manual) + $1725 (Dest. Charge) = $34,625 Cdn dollars

IS250
Base = $31,900 (Manual) + $940 (Dest. Charge) = $32,824 Cdn dollars

Base TSX has no HID, no memory seats, no leather.

Why would anyone buy this car when you have the Lexus IS250 with better performance (HP and Torque), RWD and starting MSRP of $31,900?

Acura has failed thinking they are on par or better than Lexus.

I have never seen a car that decreased HP for a new model.

I got a letter from Acura advertising the new TSX saying tomorrow's technology today. When it's more like yesterday's technology today.

So it's still a rip off.

jwaters943

I never will understand these comparisons. No one is going to SERIOUSLY cross-shop the full-size RWD Hyundai Genesis with a mid-size FWD TSX. They appeal to two different buyers IMO. I, for one, can appreciate both offerings.

If there is one non-luxury branded car out there that may hurt TSX sales it's the new Maxima, which is now smaller than the Altima and supposedly much sportier. It comes with a new 3-mode CVT w/ paddle shifters and quicker reaction time (no more rubber-banding from the CVT), 290hp, an optional panoramic sunroof, heated steering wheel, heated front seats w/ optional cooled drivers seat, keyless start/access, etc. On top of that, the pricing should be well within reach of most TSX buyers (Est. pricing: $30k-$36k depending upon equipment). The fuel-economy is also pretty decent (19/26) considering it has nearly 90 addt'l HP & lb-ft of torque when compared to the TSX.

Mokos23

Boy, I can't wait for the first new owner to sign in as the first person on the AZ board to buy a new 09 TSX. You think someone will drive home in one by this weekend?

davidspalding

Heated steering wheel. Uh-huh.

jwaters943

Don't laugh until you've tried one, especially in a winter up North.

-Start car, turn on heater & heated seats/steering wheel
-Scrape snow/ice off windshield
-Sit in drivers seat and "thaw out" as you drive away

And for those of you who are geography-challenged and are thinking "what does this guy know, he lives in the desert". Here is Reno a couple years ago:

davidspalding

Nolo contendere. But my skepticism was tongue-in-cheek to begin with.

I'm starting to tire of the broken record (those of us who remember what "LPs" were), "lower horsepower? INCONCEIVABLE!" C'mon, they retuned Vtec to what the Hondata reflash did 2004-2008, giving more power over the RPM power curve. More torque. Slightly better mileage. ULEV vs. LEV. Anyone who can count on their fingers can see the improvements outnumber the regression. Get over it, already.

dom

I'm starting to tire of those that are impressed by those improvements.

It goes both ways.

davidspalding

Who's impressed? I'm just taking in the big picture.

TMQ

All this makes the BMW 1 series even sweeter. The 128i is quite fast, and given the goodies you get from BMW performance, I think one would still be satisfied with less "electronics features" for the same amount of money.

rb1

I'm pretty sure the 128i will be my next car. It will be a while though since I have a 2007 TSX, so I'll probably at least ride out the warranty. I could have been enticed to move earlier by a new TSX with a better powerplant...