MotorTrend: Sporty Luxury Sedan Comparo
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
MotorTrend: Sporty Luxury Sedan Comparo
In the car world, a new BMW 3 Series is a big deal. BMW created the small sport sedan class in 1975 with the original E21 3, and even before that with the iconic 2002. Along with the Mercedes-Benz 190E, the segment really arrived in 1982 with the launch of the much-heralded and often imitated, though never quite duplicated, E30 3 Series. That car proved a near-perfect mixture of engine, transmission, and chassis that the competition and BMW have been trying to mimic for years, with varying degrees of success. Perhaps more important (for BMW), the E30 arrived on the scene at the same time as the yuppie. In the 1980s, nothing screamed "upwardly mobile"
quite as loudly as a little BMW parked in your driveway.
But 30 years is a long time, and the automotive scene is very different from when the E30 launched. Back in the early '80s, Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus didn't exist; Audi was selling AWD Volkswagens; Buick was terminally ill (though hardly aware of it); and Volvos were but a chromosome away from farm equipment. Only Mercedes was anywhere near its current market position, technically and in terms of status. There have been 3 generations of 3 Series (E36, E46, and E90/91/92/93) between the 1980s classic and this new 6th-generation car, dubbed the F30. Each of those previous cars represented varying degrees of goodness, but the competition hasn't exactly been resting on its laurels. In fact, back in August 2007, we loudly (on our cover) declared "The King Is Dead!" and handed the 3 Series' crown off to the Infinti G37.
This new 3 Series, then, shows up saddled with great expectations. So great, in fact, that we assembled seven competitors eager to knock the would-be king off his presumptive throne. While some of the sedans follow the 3 Series' longtime winning recipe (front engine, RWD), several are front drive, and the Audi gets mojo directed to all four wheels. Moreover, since we got our hands on the new 328i, which features a turbocharged 4-cylinder engine instead of an I-6 (gasp!), we asked for the lowest-powered version of each competing car. Except for the Acura and Buick. Automatic transmissions for all, too. Our task was twofold: to determine just how good the new BMW 3 Series is and see how the sport sedan competition measures up. Frankly, I'm rather shocked by the results. - Jonny Lieberman
8TH PLACE : Buick Regal GS
You Want to Compete With Whom?
By: Ron Kiino
Wait, the underdog American, armed with the most potent engine, Brembo brakes, and 20-inch wheels came in last place, behind the dated and underpowered Infiniti? Yes, we know -- it just doesn't sound right. We had high hopes for this sportiest of slushbox Buicks, what with the aforementioned performance goodies. But when the votes were cast, 8th was as high as this Gran Sport could reach. For those wondering, if we'd instead included the regular Regal Turbo, Mike Febbo may have shot it.
Like the BMW, the Buick uses a direct-injected 2.0-liter turbo four. Yet unlike the 328i, the Regal pumps out 30 more horsepower and 40 extra lb-ft of torque for -- drumroll, please -- a tops-in-test 270 horses and 295 lb-ft. Unfortunately, that output advantage didn't translate to the track, where the 6-speed-auto GS was 0.6 second slower from 0 to 60 (6.2 seconds) and 0.8 second tardier through the quarter mile (15.0 seconds at 93.1 mph) than the dragstrip champ eight-speed 328i. So, it's not quicker, but perhaps it's more fuel-efficient? Nope. Per the EPA's fuel-economy test, the BMW ekes out 24/36 mpg city/highway to the Buick's 20/32. Moreover, our observed fuel economy placed the 328i (16.8 mpg) mid-pack and the Regal dead last (14.6), a full 2.0 mpg behind the A4, the 2nd-thirstiest vehicle.
Speaking of the all-wheel-drive Audi, it actually weighs less than the 3748-pound Buick, the -- yep -- heaviest of the bunch. What's up with the corpulence? We're not entirely sure, but we surmise some of it comes from the Regal's polished dubs and Pirelli PZero tires, a $700 option that did very little to dampen the often harsh ride. That said, the wheel/tire package, along with the GS' Brembos and front HiPer strut/rear multilink suspension, did deliver impressive 60-0 braking (108 feet), lateral acceleration (0.89 g), and figure-eight (26.1 seconds at 0.67 g) numbers. Still, over our curvy test loop, we were unimpressed with the Regal's nervous handling dynamics, frustrating transmission ("Shift Denied!"), and noticeable turbo lag.
At $38,565 ($35,720 base), the Regal GS resides in the economical half of the group, yet includes navigation ($1145), power sunroof ($1000), leather interior, satellite radio, Bluetooth, pushbutton start, and dual-zone auto A/C. The lack of a backup camera, especially given the high rear shelf, seems an oversight. And please, please, lose the gaudy chrome inserts in the steering wheel and around the gearshift. As the most powerful entry -- not to mention one of the newest -- the Regal needed to be more than an apparent strong value with flash. It needed to live up to its brawny specs and bulldog looks. As its finish illustrates, it didn't.
7TH PLACE: 2012 Infiniti G25
Late to the Party, Still
By: Alex Nishimoto
There are 2 ways of arriving late to a party. One, make a grand entrance and act like you have something to offer that was missing prior to your arrival. Two, bring a gift -- maybe chips and salsa or a few adult beverages -- to mask the offense of your tardiness. The Infiniti G25 was certainly late to the lower-priced, reduced-displacement executive-car party. And instead of injecting some spice into the entry-lux dance floor, it showed up in last year's clothes, out of step, and half-asleep. And it brought Zima.
In this comparison, the G25 was simply outclassed. The combination of an anemic drivetrain, dated exterior styling, and an interior that (charitably) looks at least a generation old landed the G25 in 7th place, a finishing position that was debated for nearly an hour before we decided the Infiniti was better than the Buick. For the record, 3 of the 8 minds remain strongly unconvinced.
The biggest complaints revolved around the Infiniti's seven-speed automatic transmission, which is an elementary school dropout in terms of programming intelligence. The car was never in the right gear coming out of a turn, and sport mode did little to correct the problem. The only time the sport setting did anything was in the constant, tight sweepers of Decker Canyon, when it was unnecessary. The tranny would downshift one or more gears for no apparent reason, each time letting out a spooky wail from the relatively gutless 2.5-liter V-6. In the Acura TSX, you wanted to step on the pedal to hear that 3.5-liter V-6 at wide-open throttle. In the Infiniti, listening to the engine carry on got really old really fast. Lieberman compared it to a propeller plane. And if you want to get anywhere in a semi-hurry, you've got to wring the scrawny V-6's neck.
Equally unloved was the bland, low-rent interior, which Scott Evans described as "sterile," likening it to a doctor's waiting room. Infiniti failed to achieve the bare minimum level of quality required for a luxury car by employing cheap plastic that was as relentless and beige as the Gobi Desert. Infiniti clearly isn't going for sporty either, as the G25 is offered with neither a manual transmission nor the steering wheel-mounted paddle shifters available on the G37. The lack of atheleticism was all too obvious in testing, with the G25 posting the slowest 0-60 time of the group at 7.5 seconds, and the slowest quarter-mile time of 15.7 seconds at 90.8 mph.
The Infiniti does have some redeeming qualities, though. Based on Nissan's FM (front-mid) architecture, the same platform that underpins such capable and sporty cars as the 370Z and Infiniti FX, the entry-level G is a competent handler, with most editors reporting sharp turn-in and generally good steering feel. That's the inherent benefit of RWD, and most likely the only reason the Infiniti got shelved above the Buick. This fact would've carried more weight had the stability control not been so invasive, cutting power through turns and sapping the fun out of an otherwise agile car. Noted Lieberman, "Through the tightest turn of the loop with the stability control switched off, the G25 essentially turned itself off on me." The Infiniti does get some credit for having the 2nd-best observed fuel economy of the group, seeing an average of 17.6 mpg in our abusive hands.
Despite decent handling and relatively good gas mileage, the G25 proved to be one of the two major disappointments of this test. Here's hoping Infiniti follows the lead of other automakers and gives the next-gen G a turbo-4 with a much smarter transmission. Until then, the G25 is seriously outclassed by the major players gathered here.
6TH PLACE: 2012 Acura TSX V-6
Pseudo-European Car Offends None
By: Benson Kong
No offense -- though I'm sure somebody out there will take issue -- but this comparison felt the most right to me during one particular driving loop where it was just the European contenders briskly hustling through the twists and turns. The Japanese and American half of the pack had been separated by a red light. And then some. Yes, it's cliche, but it takes some big talent to be taken seriously in the sport sedan realm.
If the Acura TSX -- known to the cognoscenti in these parts as a derivation of the European-spec Honda Accord -- can take one triumph to heart, it's that no editor stepped out shaking his head, saying, "It's just awful" or "It doesn't belong here." (See 8th place.) In fact, the TSX proved a cautionary tale in automotive what-ifs. What if its transmission had more than 5 speeds? What if it had better tires and brakes? What if its ride quality were better sorted? To elaborate, let's open our notebooks. "Still has a few drops of that old Honda magic, but not nearly enough," remarked Lieberman. "Engine zings and it basically feels like a big Honda Fit, which isn't bad, but it's definitely let down a bit by the transmission," wrote Febbo. "If the TSX had the BMW's brakes and the Benz's tires, it would've easily been a top-4 car. If..." postulated Kiino.
No doubt the most impressive naturally aspirated engine of the bunch, the TSX's aurally pleasurable 3.5-liter V-6 won over most of us. Its exhaust note was described as "deep and bellowing" by Nishimoto. With a comparison-topping 280 horsepower paired with 235mm-wide rubber, the front-drive TSX was 3rd-quickest from 0-60 mph and in the quarter mile (6.0 seconds and 14.5 seconds, respectively), but last in maximum lateral g (0.82) and on the figure 8 (0.3 second off the Volvo S60 T5, the next closest). Quick steering helps generate aggressive turn-in, but drivers were then left with a chassis worthy of considerably more grip.
When the going was easy, the sporty but busy ride and plentiful road and wind noise wore us down. The cluttered center stack and low-resolution navigation screen also drew ire, though the interior material selection and color coordination is solid. The TSX is well-equipped, but after a while we started to question the $39,335 as-tested price. It's serious coinage any way you cut it, and the gap in dynamics from 6th to 1st is tremendous. Of course, it's easy for us to nitpick what needs fixing -- we're not the ones spending our money on product development. But for the same purchase price, there definitely are five better sport sedans from which to choose.
5TH PLACE: 2011 Lexus IS 250 F-Sport
Old? Who You Calling Old?
By: Rory Jurnecka
The Lexus IS 250 was the very definition of an underdog when it knocked on the door of our little entry-level luxury-car party. Having made its production debut at the 2005 (think White Sox winning the World Series) New York auto show, the 2nd-generation IS can't help but look, feel, and seem a little dated. Its 204 hp and 185 lb-ft is light for a modern small-displacement turbocharged 4-cylinder motor, let alone the 2.5-liter V-6 the IS 250 has stashed under its hood. The six-speed automatic used to be state-of-the-art with its sport mode and paddle shifters, but today half the cars in this comparison have 7- and 8-speed gearboxes. So where does that leave a nearly 7-year-old sport sedan?
Surprisingly, solidly mid-pack is the answer. Truth is, especially compared with the older-by-a-year Infiniti G, the Lexus still feels like it's a viable purchase. Our impressions were no doubt bolstered by our tester's optional F-Sport package. With its unique sport seats, leather-covered steering wheel, firmer suspension, 18-inch wheels, and grippy Bridgestones, the IS seemed to punch above its weight in the smiles-per-mile category. "Lexus has the bones of a good sport sedan here," said Evans. "The chassis is solid and composed, the handling is good, and it grips well."
We were also impressed with its style. The interior is trimmed out nicely, with the comfy Alcantara-covered, big-bolstered seats holding occupants in place on the twistier stretch of our drive loop. With the exception of the somewhat plasticky, dated center stack, the majority of the interior "still feels luxurious and upscale," to quote Kiino. The exterior design has fared equally well over time, due in part to a mid-cycle refresh a couple years back, and still manages to be eye-catching (especially in F-Sport trim). Adds Lieberman, "Compared with that new squished-spindle Lexus snout, this thing is gorgeous."
Complaints? We had a few, and most were to do with the most outdated part of the car: the powertrain. While the V-6 revs out smoothly enough, it is underpowered amongst its competitive set. We found ourselves wishing for at least another 50 lb-ft of torque to help push the relatively light IS along. We also found the shift paddles somewhat less responsive than those in most of the competition. Rear seat room wasn't impressive, and the $41,214 as-tested price seemed a bit steep, considering the car's age. That said, we know there's a new IS in the works. If it builds on the lessons Lexus should have learned from this iteration, we can't wait to drive it.
4TH PLACE : 2012 Audi A4 Quattro
The Safe Bet
By: Mike Febbo
Quattro -- Audi's brand name for all-wheel drive -- has defined the Ingolstadt-based manufacturer's identity for the last 30 years. Some may question the value of sending power to all 4 wheels on such relatively low-horsepower vehicles, but in the twistiest sections of our test loop, the difference immediately became apparent. The A4, with its wide powerband from the direct-injection 2.0-liter turbo I-4, shot from corner to corner with grip the other cars couldn't hope to achieve. Well, save for 1 from Bavaria.
The unanimous complaint among the judges was Audi's beige/gray interior. Even the biggest four-ring fans in our group (hi, Mom!) remarked that this color should never be allowed to leave the factory. While design and ergonomics were praised, wrapping everything in that cheap-looking khaki faux leather makes it look too much like a Frankfurt taxi. The steering wheel seemed to suffer the most from the cheap material, and its function was a point of contention. While most of the manufacturers in this comparison augment steering feel by piping powertrain vibration into the steering system (alarmingly so in the case of the Mercedes), Audi isolates the NVH and lets the front tires do all the talking. Feelings on steering feel were split right down the middle, with some celebrating the sharp responses and others proclaiming the car devoid of soul. However you look at it, the Audi was the 2nd-heaviest car in the comparison at 3710 pounds and still managed to tie the 3480-pound BMW for 1st place around the figure 8. Again, grip.
In acceleration runs, the Audi again put in a strong second-place showing behind the BMW, coming in just 2-tenths of a second behind it to 60 mph (5.8 seconds) and in the quarter mile. Clearly, the 6th-most-powerful car in the field gets the most out of its 211 horsepower. On the street, the Audi felt mid-pack in accelerative oomph, maybe because of the extra weight from the brand-defining AWD hardware, though the new and lightened A6 shows that Audi is capable of making an AWD car that's lighter than the 2WD competition. Also, what's up with the awful wind noise?
The A4 is scheduled for an update in 2013 with new exterior styling details and a rash of interior changes including new materials, steering wheel, and different color offerings. If buyers must have a 2012, spend $1250 on the prestige trim level to get upgraded leather and more supportive seats, 19-inch wheels with wider tires, a firmer suspension, and more aggressive front and rear fascias. Though that would, of course, bump the 2nd-highest as-tested price even higher. The A4 is an aging car but still a good choice, especially for buyers who require all-weather performance.
3RD PLACE: Mercedes-Benz C250
A Very Good Car -- Just Not Great
By: Scott Evans
Well, this is awkward. The mighty Mercedes-Benz finishes 3rd, behind a Volvo? How'd that happen? Well, let me tell you.
Here are the problems we had with our Sport-packaged C250. 1st and foremost, these seats do not belong in anything associated with the word "Sport." The bottoms are hard, and as flat as the plains east of Denver, while the seatbacks offer just enough side bolstering to remind you how sporty they aren't. Nearly as bad is the boost lag, with the little 1.8-liter turbo-4 wholly unequipped to handle the Benz's weight until boost comes in around 3000 rpm. The transmission, meanwhile, is slow to react and doesn't keep the engine on boost even in Sport mode, and the side-to-side manual shifting won no fans. The steering was too light and lacking in feedback, and the design inside and out is conservative bordering on boring.
So that's why the Mercedes is in third. But why is it ahead of the Audi, Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, and Buick? Because it drives better than any of them. Once the turbo-four is boiling, the C250 feels much quicker than its 6.9-second 0-60-mph time suggests. The chassis is rock solid and nigh unflappable. It's a bit disconcerting when the body rolls over hard on turn-in, even though you know in the back of your mind it's going to settle in on the suspension and bite hard at the road. Once it does, the Benz is neutrally balanced, hard to upset, and stuck tight to the asphalt. Better transitions and better seats would help immensely.
The Mercedes also made a strong case for itself in value. Say what?! Yup, at $41,570, our lightly optioned tester landed mid-pack in pricing while still offering such niceties as satellite radio and navigation. Of course, start spec'ing it up like the BMW and you can easily push this car into $50,000 territory. As it stood, though, the Mercedes offered one of the best driving experiences at a reasonable price. It was even the fuel economy winner at 17.7 mpg observed. By the end of our test, everyone liked the C250, but no 1 loved it. It's a competent handler, a solid ride, a real luxury car, and it has pedigree. Still, there were 2 other cars that did it at least a little better. Besides, Mercedes is hard at work on a new C-Class, and you can bet a 3rd-place finish simply won't be tolerated.
2ND PLACE: Volvo S60 T5
Swedish Cinderella
By: Nate Martinez
The Mayan prophecy didn't arrive early. Illicit drugs were not consumed. A lofty amount of Chinese yuan hasn't been left in our collective (nonexistent) coffer. Ladies and gents: We are still as surprised as you are at this very moment. We've known for a long time just how very good the turbo I-6, AWD S60 is, but this was our first crack at the FWD, transverse inline-5, and, well, we're surprised.
The Volvo S60 T5 had a lot of things going for it that aren't necessarily related to safety. 1st, there is that stunning coupelike Swedish body with clean, composed, and well-executed accents. The physique can hardly be called svelte, but it is well-proportioned and ideally sorted for 5-passenger hauling. More important, it's different. Refreshingly so. Our particular tester's looks benefited from optional bright silver sport front and rear bumpers. Over the multi-day test the design received nary a complaint.
Much like its metal panels, the cabin's no-nonsense black/silver/tan innards were penned with simplicity and attractiveness in mind. Yet, as most of us discovered, the simple space proved extremely comfortable and nearly concert-hall quiet, not to mention highly usable with ample storage, cupholders galore, and a straightforward multimedia system. A few labeled the plain cockpit too "stripped" and "not premium enough," but in the end, it did what it set out to do -- and did it well. We especially took a liking to the front seats, which are supple enough for long highway hauls and supportive enough for aggressive runs on desolate zigzag paths. Not often do our posteriors sit in such magnificent thrones in an entry-level model. The fact that they were fabric instead of real or fake cowhide was also appreciated.
Those aforesaid aggressive runs revealed a solid 3500-pound platform that liked to dance. It wasn't the quickest on our track with its relatively skinny 215/50R17 Michelin Primacy rubber (the thinnest of the bunch), nor did it carve canyons with a surgical skill of a certain Bavarian. In all honesty, the nose-heavy car that some called "a tank" and "a heifer" plowed at its limits on tight, complicated corners. But it was controllable, and, most important, extremely fun. Granted, long sweepers were where this Volvo truly shone. The smooth, peppy 2.5-liter 5-cylinder and its 6-speed automatic doled out consistent power and thrills whatever the situation, and was 1 of the most fuel efficient at 17.5 mpg observed.
The S60 won our hearts with its ability to take the high-stress runs we dealt it in its competent, confident stride. When it comes time to go home, it coddles you. It sips fuel penuriously. And it looks damn sexy. For all this, Volvo charges just over $35 large. Yup, this is 1 special Swede.
1ST PLACE: BMW 328i Sport Line
That's 1st Place With a Competition-Killing Bullet
By: Jonny Lieberman
The Internet has fundamentally changed the way we write about cars. Why's that? Your thoughtful, loving comments, of course! Unlike in the old days where my predecessors would cherry-pick only the best, friendliest letters to the editors (and spellcheck 'em), today whatever you have to say becomes permanently affixed to the article in question, online. And lest you feel like you're writing to each other, be assured, we read your comments. I mention this because I want to talk about the big albatross hanging around the new 328i's neck right up front: price. This car rings the bell to the tune of $50,560, by far the highest as-tested price of the competition. Shock! Horror! You all will cancel your subscriptions en masse, of course the most expensive car won, because we're all idiots, etc.
Yes, yes, yes. We know. However, unlike the other seven competitors, this particular car was driven away from the U.S. 3 Series launch BMW held in San Francisco where the cars were (of course) trimmed out with all the fixings. The point I want to make is that, using BMW's online configurator, you can spec out a mechanically identical 328i Sport Line for $41,095 that would have beat up on and choked out the competition just like the 1 in our test did. Questions?
As mentioned, we sat around screaming at each other for over an hour trying to determine if the Buick was in fact a lamer duck than the Infiniti. We spent all of three minutes declaring the BMW best in test and best in class. This is not just a win for the 328i; it's a massacre. A slaughter. Doomsday. Armageddon. I say this with a straight face: There is no competition. Not only was the BMW's 1st-place finish never in question, but I can't remember a comparison test with such lopsided results. Honestly, we had a hard time finding bad things to say. Aside from the as-tested price (see above!), the worst anyone could come up with is that the new 2.0-liter twin-scroll I-4 sounds like a diesel. But, as Evans logs, "That's hardly a complaint," and you only hear the clatter-clatter-clatter at idle. Let's call it the sound of efficiency. As for the good stuff, well, our notebooks were boiling over.
Here's a sampling. Kiino: "Does everything well. The epitome of a luxury sport sedan." Evans: "What a car. There really isn't anything this car does wrong." Jurnecka: "Last week I was telling a buddy (and huge BMW fan) that there isn't a single new BMW I'd even consider buying these days. I was wrong. I'd buy this car." Febbo: "Maybe the most impressive thing about the BMW is that there is no superfluous stuff. They just built a really solid car." Martinez: "Seriously, where's the M badge?" Kong: "BMW wants to make my life difficult with a shocking product that is as good as it's been hyped." Nishimoto: "BMW does what it does best with this new 328, and thus the bar is raised yet again." And from me, "They picked the appellation F30 for a reason. Like the E30, the new 328i is the ideal blend of engine, transmission, and chassis." Seriously, folks, I'm awed.
You want specifics? The BMW was the fastest car here (0-60 mph in 5.6 seconds and through the quarter in 14.2 at 97.8 mph), beating even the AWD Audi. The 328i rode the best, had the best steering and transmission, is the only car here with start/stop technology, gets a class-leading 36 mpg highway, has thebest laid-out interior, is the most comfortable, has an unbelievable nav screen, and, to top it all off, has the biggest back seat.
Want more? Of course you do. Moving from Comfort mode into Sport produced real, actual changes in the vehicle's behavior, transforming it from a very relaxed cruiser to a sharp-edged canyon carver. And because of the $900 Adaptive M Suspension option (part of the $2500 Sport Line package) there's still Sport+ to further stiffen the suspension, increase throttle response, and get the 8-speed auto to bang home shifts like a dual-clutch. There's also an Eco Pro mode that turns down the climate control and throttle response to achieve more efficiency. It even logs and shows you how many extra miles you're eking out. Long story short, the 328i is 4 cars in one. Let's make that 4 excellent cars in one. Ultimately -- and this cuts right through the heart of the sport sedan segment -- the BMW was without question the most fun to drive.
Like Rory, I'm not a fan of modern BMWs. Not only do I feel the automaker has lost the "Ultimate Driving Machine" plot, but I think the 5 Series Gran Turismo is the German Aztek. But since I first took a spin last week, I haven't stopped thinking about the 328i. "Maybe," I tell myself before looking at my credit card statements. "Maybe I could swing some sort of sweetheart lease?" I mention this to stamp out all claims of any sort of BMW bias you might think Motor Trend has. Not only did I already mention that five years ago we declared the Infiniti G superior to the 3 Series, but the last comparison test I wrote involving a BMW had the Bavarian finishing dead last. True, the 740i did win our Entry-Level Full-Size Luxury Sedan comparo (March 2011), but here's what Frank Markus had to say about that victor: "By the end of our deliberations, the BMW found itself backing into the winner's circle by doing everything 80-90 percent right without doing anything terribly wrong, all at a moderate price." Talk about damning with faint praise!
In full, glaring, retina-searing contrast, this BMW wins this competition because it does everything better than the rest. For now, all the competition can do is head back to their drawing boards. Like I said up front, I'm shocked.
PHP Code:
POWERTRAIN/CHASSIS 2012 BMW 328i 2012 Buick Regal GS
DRIVETRAIN LAYOUT Front engine, RWD Front engine, FWD
ENGINE TYPE Turbocharged I-4, aluminum block/head Turbocharged I-4, aluminum block/head
VALVETRAIN DOHC, 4 valves/cyl DOHC, 4 valves/cyl
DISPLACEMENT 121.9 cu in/1997 cc 122.4 cu in/1998 cc
COMPRESSION RATIO 10.0:1 9.2:1
POWER (SAE NET) 240 hp @ 5000 rpm 270 hp @ 5300 rpm
TORQUE (SAE NET) 255 lb-ft @ 1250 rpm 295 lb-ft @ 2400 rpm
REDLINE 7000 rpm 6500 rpm
WEIGHT TO POWER 14.5 lb/hp 13.9 lb/hp
TRANSMISSION 8-speed automatic 6-speed automatic
AXLE/FINAL-DRIVE RATIO 3.15:1/2.10:1 3.33:1/2.30:1
SUSPENSION, FRONT; REAR Struts, coil springs, adj shocks, anti-roll bar; multilink, coil springs, adj shocks, anti-roll bar Struts, coil springs, adj shocks, anti-roll bar; multilink, coil springs, adj shocks, anti-roll bar
STEERING RATIO 15.0:1 15.2:1
TURNS LOCK-TO-LOCK 2.8 2.6
BRAKES,F;R 12.3-in vented disc; 11.8-in vented disc, ABS 14.0-in vented disc; 12.4-in vented disc, ABS
WHEELS 8.0 x 18-in, cast aluminum 8.5 x 20-in, cast aluminum
TIRES 225/45R18 91Y
Goodyear Efficient Grip 255/35ZR20 97Y
Pirelli PZero
DIMENSIONS
WHEELBASE 110.6 in 107.8 in
TRACK, F/R 60.3/61.9 in 62.4/62.5 in
LENGTH x WIDTH x HEIGHT 182.5 x 71.3 x 56.3 190.2 x 73.1 x 58.0 in
TURNING CIRCLE 37.1 ft 37.4 ft
CURB WEIGHT 3480 lb 3748 lb
WEIGHT DIST, F/R 50/50% 60/40%
SEATING CAPACITY 5 5
HEADROOM, F/R 40.3/37.7 in 38.8/36.8 in
LEGROOM, F/R 42.0/35.1 in 42.1/37.3 in
SHOULDER ROOM, F/R 55.1/55.1 in 56.7/54.4 in
CARGO VOLUME 17.0 cu ft 14.3 cu ft
TEST DATA
ACCELERATION TO MPH
0-30 1.9 sec 2.2 sec
0-40 2.9 3.4
0-50 4.1 4.7
0-60 5.6 6.2
0-70 7.4 8.7
0-80 9.5 11.1
0-90 12.0 13.9
0-100 14.9 17.4
PASSING, 45-65 MPH 3.0 3.3
QUARTER MILE 14.2 sec @ 97.8 mph 15.0 sec @ 93.1 mph
BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 107 ft 108 ft
LATERAL ACCELERATION 0.90 g (avg) 0.89 g (avg)
MT FIGURE EIGHT 25.9 sec @ 0.69 g (avg) 26.1 sec @ 0.67 g (avg)
TOP-GEAR REVS @ 60 MPH 1750 rpm 1700 rpm
CONSUMER INFO
BASE PRICE $35,795 $35,720
PRICE AS TESTED $50,560 $38,565
STABILITY/TRACTION CONTROL Yes/yes Yes/yes
AIRBAGS Dual front, front side, f/r curtain, front knee Dual front, front side, f/r curtain
BASIC WARRANTY 4 yrs/50,000 mi 4 yrs/50,000 mi
POWERTRAIN WARRANTY 4 yrs/50,000 mi 5 yrs/100,000 mi
ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE 4 yrs/unlimited 5 yrs/100,000 mi
FUEL CAPACITY 15.8 gal 18.5 gal
EPA CITY/HWY ECON 24/36 mpg 20/32 mpg
ENERGY CONS, CITY/HWY 140/94 kW-hrs/100 mi 169/105 kW-hrs/100 mi
CO2 EMISSIONS 0.69 lb/mi 0.81 lb/mi
MT FUEL ECONOMY 16.8 mpg 14.6 mpg
RECOMMENDED FUEL Unleaded premium Unleaded premium
#3
^^^ I was gonna say... BMW at the top of the list? SHOCKER....
#6
Senior Moderator
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Better Neighborhood, Arizona
Posts: 45,641
Received 2,329 Likes
on
1,309 Posts
@ them bitching about
A) Tires, which can be swapped
B) Brakes, which can be upgraded
C) 'Low' resolution screen, which it is not.
So in reality, for under $2,000 almost all of their negatives are eliminated. Meanwhile how much was the BMW? Just under $51,000?
A) Tires, which can be swapped
B) Brakes, which can be upgraded
C) 'Low' resolution screen, which it is not.
So in reality, for under $2,000 almost all of their negatives are eliminated. Meanwhile how much was the BMW? Just under $51,000?
The following 2 users liked this post by Ken1997TL:
opboarding (03-06-2012),
ttk5 (03-06-2012)
#7
Goodbye.
Every auto-journalist loves the BMW.
BUT NO ONE wants to really pay for and own one. Especially after the warranty ends.
unless you have a money growing tree.......but if I did, I'd rather pay people to carry my throne around where I have to go, or pay someone to build me a personal teleportation device.
BUT NO ONE wants to really pay for and own one. Especially after the warranty ends.
unless you have a money growing tree.......but if I did, I'd rather pay people to carry my throne around where I have to go, or pay someone to build me a personal teleportation device.
The following users liked this post:
ressling (03-06-2012)
Trending Topics
#8
Advanced
Interesting read, Thanks for posting, I only subscribe to Car and Driver so I might not have seen this comparo.
I'm surprised with the 6th place finish, but the things they are finding fault on can be changed for less then $2k like Ken said. I guess it speaks more on how outpaced the K24 is when it's one of two cars they had to choose the bigger engine for. Can't believe the IS250 edged us.
I think this article also speaks for how much competition there is in the "entry" level sport sedan segiment, although I don't call a $51,000 Beamer entry level. For my money $28,000 buys a nice, quick, fuel efficent, great looking sport sedan with awesome reliability and low maintenance costs.
Or should I say $28,000 did by me one. I just hope Acura Keeps the TSX alive and injects some more technology into it.
I'm surprised with the 6th place finish, but the things they are finding fault on can be changed for less then $2k like Ken said. I guess it speaks more on how outpaced the K24 is when it's one of two cars they had to choose the bigger engine for. Can't believe the IS250 edged us.
I think this article also speaks for how much competition there is in the "entry" level sport sedan segiment, although I don't call a $51,000 Beamer entry level. For my money $28,000 buys a nice, quick, fuel efficent, great looking sport sedan with awesome reliability and low maintenance costs.
Or should I say $28,000 did by me one. I just hope Acura Keeps the TSX alive and injects some more technology into it.
#9
Every auto-journalist loves the BMW.
BUT NO ONE wants to really pay for and own one. Especially after the warranty ends.
unless you have a money growing tree.......but if I did, I'd rather pay people to carry my throne around where I have to go, or pay someone to build me a personal teleportation device.
BUT NO ONE wants to really pay for and own one. Especially after the warranty ends.
unless you have a money growing tree.......but if I did, I'd rather pay people to carry my throne around where I have to go, or pay someone to build me a personal teleportation device.
Wait a minute. I've owned the TSX for a month now and it didn't leave me stranded on the side of the road yet like my BMW.. I AM an idiot.
Ken is right, the tires can be easily upgraded and different brake pads may help the braking.
The nav is lo-res compared to Audi and the BMW, but at least it'll get you where you are going - something I couldn't always say for the BMW. If there is a ass-backwards way of getting somewhere the BMW nav would find it. I'll take low-res over poor mapping skills.
#10
Goodbye.
lol ceb, sometimes I don't know if you're actually anger posting or not...
The new 3series really is the new 5 series based on its proportions and space (and even looks!). If I was paying 51k for a new car, I wouldn't consider it entry-level either.
The one thing that bugs me about reviews on the new 3 series is the high praises for the position of the new nav screen (how it's all higher and more level to the eye, etc...) but if you look at the TSX's nav screen, it is pretty much the same location height wise, yet no one cared
I do like the design of the new bmw nav screen though. Much better than the double humps.
The new 3series really is the new 5 series based on its proportions and space (and even looks!). If I was paying 51k for a new car, I wouldn't consider it entry-level either.
The one thing that bugs me about reviews on the new 3 series is the high praises for the position of the new nav screen (how it's all higher and more level to the eye, etc...) but if you look at the TSX's nav screen, it is pretty much the same location height wise, yet no one cared
I do like the design of the new bmw nav screen though. Much better than the double humps.
#11
Intermediate
+1 lol... I was thinking the same thing. You're testing the Acura and complaining about the tires? Really? As if Honda makes the tires now.
Nav resolution isn't the biggest deal either. It's still higher res than my garmin or google maps on a cell phone!
How about factoring reliability and true cost of ownership. It's easy to say something is great when you only have it for a few days.
Hell for that matter I'll take a Ferarri for a week... I just have to get rid of it before I have to do that engine-out service every 5000mi
Acura longevity FTW
Last edited by busyb02; 03-06-2012 at 02:07 PM.
The following users liked this post:
cisobe (03-06-2012)
#12
Instructor
It is by all means Honda's choice to put poorer tires and brakes...while it was others to have better tires/brakes. Yes Honda doesn't make tires, but usually OE tires are developed and made to the manufacturer's needs...so Honda basically asked for a poorer performing tire for cost or whatever reasons. Saying that it can be fixed is irrelevant because Honda didn't do it.
Also you will see a main thing that they complained about is the 5 speed gearbox...which really is outdated with nearly every other manufacturer having 6 or more.
C) I was actually pretty surprised they said the navi screen was low resolution...I thought the updated system is at least comparable to the others. I think where our system lacks though is the graphics...I know the BMW has beautiful animations and graphics.
One thing I don't believe is how they said the new 3 series has the biggest rear seat. That is totally impossible unless the new 3 series is significantly larger than the current gen, which it doesn't seem to be. I was stuck in the back of the current gen for a 4 hour road trip and I had poor leg room and absolutely no head room and I'm not even 6ft tall.
Last edited by denwhat; 03-06-2012 at 02:12 PM.
#13
lol ceb, sometimes I don't know if you're actually anger posting or not...
The new 3series really is the new 5 series based on its proportions and space (and even looks!). If I was paying 51k for a new car, I wouldn't consider it entry-level either.
The one thing that bugs me about reviews on the new 3 series is the high praises for the position of the new nav screen (how it's all higher and more level to the eye, etc...) but if you look at the TSX's nav screen, it is pretty much the same location height wise, yet no one cared
I do like the design of the new bmw nav screen though. Much better than the double humps.
The new 3series really is the new 5 series based on its proportions and space (and even looks!). If I was paying 51k for a new car, I wouldn't consider it entry-level either.
The one thing that bugs me about reviews on the new 3 series is the high praises for the position of the new nav screen (how it's all higher and more level to the eye, etc...) but if you look at the TSX's nav screen, it is pretty much the same location height wise, yet no one cared
I do like the design of the new bmw nav screen though. Much better than the double humps.
I actually suspect that the 4 cylinder would have beat the Lexus and I don't know how these people pick their test cars.
It would be a damn shame if the most expensive car didn't beat cars costing a bit over half as much.
Where do they come up with this? Either you get a base car or you don't. Nav is an option on the BMW and all of the other cars - except the craptastic Infiniti that doesn't have nav as an option (or does it have a nav option this year?)
The Audi, MB and BMW are in a class of their own and should have their own comparo - "Battle of the overpriced, over-engineered and under-reliable Germans."
Each time they do a long term test on any of these they conclude that they are great cars but they end up with a laudry list of significant defects. C&D's long term test of the 5 series complained about bubbled tires and busted wheels - sheesh.
Isn't the real goal to get you from point a to b?
The following users liked this post:
ed_423 (03-06-2012)
#14
Senior Moderator
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Better Neighborhood, Arizona
Posts: 45,641
Received 2,329 Likes
on
1,309 Posts
A&B) Lets be honest here. Our TSX brakes were never really anything extraordinary. You also can't really factor aftermarket mods when comparing cars...because aftermarket will always be cheaper than factory options.
It is by all means Honda's choice to put poorer tires and brakes...while it was others to have better tires/brakes. Yes Honda doesn't make tires, but usually OE tires are developed and made to the manufacturer's needs...so Honda basically asked for a poorer performing tire for cost or whatever reasons. Saying that it can be fixed is irrelevant because Honda didn't do it.
Also you will see a main thing that they complained about is the 5 speed gearbox...which really is outdated with nearly every other manufacturer having 6 or more.
It is by all means Honda's choice to put poorer tires and brakes...while it was others to have better tires/brakes. Yes Honda doesn't make tires, but usually OE tires are developed and made to the manufacturer's needs...so Honda basically asked for a poorer performing tire for cost or whatever reasons. Saying that it can be fixed is irrelevant because Honda didn't do it.
Also you will see a main thing that they complained about is the 5 speed gearbox...which really is outdated with nearly every other manufacturer having 6 or more.
In other words, CAFE and the all important MPG sticker.
#15
Goodbye.
One thing I don't believe is how they said the new 3 series has the biggest rear seat. That is totally impossible unless the new 3 series is significantly larger than the current gen, which it doesn't seem to be. I was stuck in the back of the current gen for a 4 hour road trip and I had poor leg room and absolutely no head room and I'm not even 6ft tall.
Me neither...
I actually suspect that the 4 cylinder would have beat the Lexus and I don't know how these people pick their test cars.
It would be a damn shame if the most expensive car didn't beat cars costing a bit over half as much.
Where do they come up with this? Either you get a base car or you don't. Nav is an option on the BMW and all of the other cars - except the craptastic Infiniti that doesn't have nav as an option (or does it have a nav option this year?)
The Audi, MB and BMW are in a class of their own and should have their own comparo - "Battle of the overpriced, over-engineered and under-reliable Germans."
Each time they do a long term test on any of these they conclude that they are great cars but they end up with a laudry list of significant defects. C&D's long term test of the 5 series complained about bubbled tires and busted wheels - sheesh.
Isn't the real goal to get you from point a to b?
I actually suspect that the 4 cylinder would have beat the Lexus and I don't know how these people pick their test cars.
It would be a damn shame if the most expensive car didn't beat cars costing a bit over half as much.
Where do they come up with this? Either you get a base car or you don't. Nav is an option on the BMW and all of the other cars - except the craptastic Infiniti that doesn't have nav as an option (or does it have a nav option this year?)
The Audi, MB and BMW are in a class of their own and should have their own comparo - "Battle of the overpriced, over-engineered and under-reliable Germans."
Each time they do a long term test on any of these they conclude that they are great cars but they end up with a laudry list of significant defects. C&D's long term test of the 5 series complained about bubbled tires and busted wheels - sheesh.
Isn't the real goal to get you from point a to b?
#17
Goodbye.
same here. If it turns out to be extremely awesome, I would consider getting one as my next car 10 years from now when the size of a M3 sedan will be the size of current 7 series, but cheaper pricing.
#18
I read that test earlier today, and thought the selection was a little off. The BMW and Audi are in another class IMO. For Volvo, the top-spec S60 R-Design's price is probably close to the 328i when comparably equipped, for example, even though it looks more like an Audi S4 spec-wise. And the Lexus probably should have been the IS 350.
Don't get too fired up about the $50k price on the 328i. You can get the Sport Line nicely equipped for several thousand less. Yes, the options are exorbitantly priced, but considering the performance, technology, and now family-friendly size, I don't think it's so bad overall. I have yet to drive it myself, but I doubt any other sedan drives as well at that price. I've sat in a few, and the interior is in another league relative to the TSX and TL. And that's not even with leather. I plan to test one soon, and I'll report back.
Don't get too fired up about the $50k price on the 328i. You can get the Sport Line nicely equipped for several thousand less. Yes, the options are exorbitantly priced, but considering the performance, technology, and now family-friendly size, I don't think it's so bad overall. I have yet to drive it myself, but I doubt any other sedan drives as well at that price. I've sat in a few, and the interior is in another league relative to the TSX and TL. And that's not even with leather. I plan to test one soon, and I'll report back.
#19
Goodbye.
sure you can get the 328i for several thousands less, but that's like saying you can buy an engine for super cheap and then build a cardboard shell around it to drive.
#20
Burning Brakes
Before I even read the article, I knew that the TSX V6 wouldn't beat out some of the competitors, but to lose to the Lexus IS250 is a joke. One of my friends has one and there is absolutely no way the IS250 beats the TSX V6. It may have a few more interior features but when it comes to sheer drivability and a host of other factors, my TSX wins everytime. Even my friend thinks my TSX is superior to his IS and wishes he'd gotten one instead.
My TSX V6 rocks and I love it. I would not pay the price difference to get into a nice, yet not nearly as reliable, BMW. I love BMWs but not enough to justify the price difference. I'm sticking with my Acura!
My TSX V6 rocks and I love it. I would not pay the price difference to get into a nice, yet not nearly as reliable, BMW. I love BMWs but not enough to justify the price difference. I'm sticking with my Acura!
#23
i was actually pretty set on a Subaru Legacy or Volvo S40(i wanted the S60, but it wasnt being released that year due to the HUGE revamp). i really enjoyed both cars, that S40 was fun to drive. then i test drove the TSX, and for the money, i couldn't give it up. i love my baby
#24
Question: why isn't Acura offering the 6MT along with the V6 model?
It seems logical to pair the two together for increased performance.
6MT seems only available with the SE, but the SE doesn't have Navigation. Whats the logic behind that?
Whatever Acura is smoking must be goooood stuff!
It seems logical to pair the two together for increased performance.
6MT seems only available with the SE, but the SE doesn't have Navigation. Whats the logic behind that?
Whatever Acura is smoking must be goooood stuff!
#25
Mind you, IMO it's absurd that some basic stuff isn't standard -- like moonroof, folding rear seats, and theft alarm -- but considering the alternatives it still isn't so bad overall. When I tested a 328i in late 2009 and griped to the sales dude about how many more features were standard on the TSX, he said: "Man, they're standard on the Ford Focus!" That's the ONLY time I've encountered brand humility from a BMW salesperson.
BTW, I'd take my TSX with 6MT over several auto-only cars in that comparo, including the Benz, which I cross-shopped against the TSX in 2009 (previous C300). I thought the TSX was just as good in absolute terms, and of course blew the Benz away for the price.
#26
Everyday I'm rofling
our car is so awesome!
#28
Question: why isn't Acura offering the 6MT along with the V6 model?
It seems logical to pair the two together for increased performance.
6MT seems only available with the SE, but the SE doesn't have Navigation. Whats the logic behind that?
Whatever Acura is smoking must be goooood stuff!
It seems logical to pair the two together for increased performance.
6MT seems only available with the SE, but the SE doesn't have Navigation. Whats the logic behind that?
Whatever Acura is smoking must be goooood stuff!
#29
Summer is Coming
I felt this review was mostly spot on. But in reality the TSX is a generation behind the new 3-series. In fact all these cars are now playing catch up to the 3-series. Again Acura has stated they are not chasing the 3-series. Smart Luxury remember. And that is what appeals to most of us on this site. We choose the 'best value' of sportiness, affordability, and reliability.
But BMW owners have different priorities. They will pay more for sportiness, luxury, and trade off on reliability and cost. I've own a E46 and got rid of it before it emptied my wallet after the warranty expired. BMW had a bad problem with fuel pumps. That seems to be fixed. I hate the run flats. But even with its reliability issues I loved that car. I was truely sad when I sold it. Even had second thoughts. I'm not in love with my TSX. It is practical and gets me there like it should, but it doesn't excite me. When I sell it I won't miss it. But I've seen the new 3-series (haven't driven yet) and I too have to admit, like the reviewer, it has me looking at my budget and on the BMW configurator wondering what I can do without to make this thing affordable.
If you go over to bi**erfest where some of the first owners are receiving their new cars, and from the professional reviews, it is pretty clear BMW has a winner. Even with the high price they will consistently sell 8,000 3-series a month. That outsells the TSX, Wagon, TL, and RL combined. So there are plenty of people willing to pony up the money for this car. People that buy the TSX won't pick the BMW because they are looking for 'practical' and BMW fanatics are looking for 'exciting.' If you feel your TSX is exciting, do yourself a favor and don't test drive the BMW. You won't look at you TSX the same way again.
Don't get me wrong, I also like the TSX practicality (I'm driving a 6-year old car afterall!), but I long for that BMW excitement again. The only question is am I willing to pay for it. The $43 thousand dollar question.
But BMW owners have different priorities. They will pay more for sportiness, luxury, and trade off on reliability and cost. I've own a E46 and got rid of it before it emptied my wallet after the warranty expired. BMW had a bad problem with fuel pumps. That seems to be fixed. I hate the run flats. But even with its reliability issues I loved that car. I was truely sad when I sold it. Even had second thoughts. I'm not in love with my TSX. It is practical and gets me there like it should, but it doesn't excite me. When I sell it I won't miss it. But I've seen the new 3-series (haven't driven yet) and I too have to admit, like the reviewer, it has me looking at my budget and on the BMW configurator wondering what I can do without to make this thing affordable.
If you go over to bi**erfest where some of the first owners are receiving their new cars, and from the professional reviews, it is pretty clear BMW has a winner. Even with the high price they will consistently sell 8,000 3-series a month. That outsells the TSX, Wagon, TL, and RL combined. So there are plenty of people willing to pony up the money for this car. People that buy the TSX won't pick the BMW because they are looking for 'practical' and BMW fanatics are looking for 'exciting.' If you feel your TSX is exciting, do yourself a favor and don't test drive the BMW. You won't look at you TSX the same way again.
Don't get me wrong, I also like the TSX practicality (I'm driving a 6-year old car afterall!), but I long for that BMW excitement again. The only question is am I willing to pay for it. The $43 thousand dollar question.
The following 2 users liked this post by Rocket_man:
MrOtocinclus (03-07-2012),
TSXy Luster (03-08-2012)
#31
Goodbye.
I felt this review was mostly spot on. But in reality the TSX is a generation behind the new 3-series. In fact all these cars are now playing catch up to the 3-series. Again Acura has stated they are not chasing the 3-series. Smart Luxury remember. And that is what appeals to most of us on this site. We choose the 'best value' of sportiness, affordability, and reliability.
But BMW owners have different priorities. They will pay more for sportiness, luxury, and trade off on reliability and cost. I've own a E46 and got rid of it before it emptied my wallet after the warranty expired. BMW had a bad problem with fuel pumps. That seems to be fixed. I hate the run flats. But even with its reliability issues I loved that car. I was truely sad when I sold it. Even had second thoughts. I'm not in love with my TSX. It is practical and gets me there like it should, but it doesn't excite me. When I sell it I won't miss it. But I've seen the new 3-series (haven't driven yet) and I too have to admit, like the reviewer, it has me looking at my budget and on the BMW configurator wondering what I can do without to make this thing affordable.
If you go over to bi**erfest where some of the first owners are receiving their new cars, and from the professional reviews, it is pretty clear BMW has a winner. Even with the high price they will consistently sell 8,000 3-series a month. That outsells the TSX, Wagon, TL, and RL combined. So there are plenty of people willing to pony up the money for this car. People that buy the TSX won't pick the BMW because they are looking for 'practical' and BMW fanatics are looking for 'exciting.' If you feel your TSX is exciting, do yourself a favor and don't test drive the BMW. You won't look at you TSX the same way again.
Don't get me wrong, I also like the TSX practicality (I'm driving a 6-year old car afterall!), but I long for that BMW excitement again. The only question is am I willing to pay for it. The $43 thousand dollar question.
But BMW owners have different priorities. They will pay more for sportiness, luxury, and trade off on reliability and cost. I've own a E46 and got rid of it before it emptied my wallet after the warranty expired. BMW had a bad problem with fuel pumps. That seems to be fixed. I hate the run flats. But even with its reliability issues I loved that car. I was truely sad when I sold it. Even had second thoughts. I'm not in love with my TSX. It is practical and gets me there like it should, but it doesn't excite me. When I sell it I won't miss it. But I've seen the new 3-series (haven't driven yet) and I too have to admit, like the reviewer, it has me looking at my budget and on the BMW configurator wondering what I can do without to make this thing affordable.
If you go over to bi**erfest where some of the first owners are receiving their new cars, and from the professional reviews, it is pretty clear BMW has a winner. Even with the high price they will consistently sell 8,000 3-series a month. That outsells the TSX, Wagon, TL, and RL combined. So there are plenty of people willing to pony up the money for this car. People that buy the TSX won't pick the BMW because they are looking for 'practical' and BMW fanatics are looking for 'exciting.' If you feel your TSX is exciting, do yourself a favor and don't test drive the BMW. You won't look at you TSX the same way again.
Don't get me wrong, I also like the TSX practicality (I'm driving a 6-year old car afterall!), but I long for that BMW excitement again. The only question is am I willing to pay for it. The $43 thousand dollar question.
I drove the last gen 3 series before I bought my TSX, and I agree with you on how exciting it is/was. Sadly, after realizing how much it would really cost me to own it after the warranties ended, I decided to be practical about my purchase.
It was a $51 thousand dollar question for me haha......and looking back now, I'm glad I have that extra $20 thousand dollars and counting, to keep me afloat today....but I do miss that feeling that driving quickly from 0 to 100 on the street outside the dealership gave me.
Last edited by TSXy Luster; 03-08-2012 at 01:05 AM.
#32
I have a 2012 TSX SE with a 6 spd. The last BMW I drove was a 2010 335IX.
The car had a 6 cylinder and auto trans. It was much faster, had great brakes,
spot on handling compared to my TSX. But it was expensive, rode very hard, in fact almost as hard as my Corvette!!!
I also drove a Mercedes C300 Sport 4-Matic with the 6. My relative actually purchased one.
Good handling in the Mercedes, firmer ride than my TSX, The interior is very nice
but it is a lot of money for a car that does not have half the standard features as the TSX.
I can see where the Motor Trend Comparison is coming from (though I never drove a newer Lexus or Volvo).
My purchase decision was based on reliability and some sportiness with decent gas mileage.
If I want a thrill ride I pull my Vette out from the garage!
The car had a 6 cylinder and auto trans. It was much faster, had great brakes,
spot on handling compared to my TSX. But it was expensive, rode very hard, in fact almost as hard as my Corvette!!!
I also drove a Mercedes C300 Sport 4-Matic with the 6. My relative actually purchased one.
Good handling in the Mercedes, firmer ride than my TSX, The interior is very nice
but it is a lot of money for a car that does not have half the standard features as the TSX.
I can see where the Motor Trend Comparison is coming from (though I never drove a newer Lexus or Volvo).
My purchase decision was based on reliability and some sportiness with decent gas mileage.
If I want a thrill ride I pull my Vette out from the garage!
#33
Well said, Rocket Man. I'm right there with you. With the TSX, I'm taking a break from European excitement, but in a couple of years I might be back in the game with the new 3 Series. My main concern is reliability. Apart from the early E90 335i with the fuel pump issues, the 3 Series has normally been okay, but the most recent 5 and 7 Series models are cause for concern. So I'll wait, and, in the meantime, save a few pennies and enjoy the TSX.
Interestingly, the new 3 Series has greatly increased practicality over the previous generation. The rear seat is larger, the trunk is MUCH bigger, and the fuel economy in the 328i is phenomenal. With everything else, this creates a truly compelling package. It's simultaneously performance car, luxury car, family car, and economy car. When would we have imagined 5.7 sec 0-60 with 35 highway mpg in a comfortable four door sedan?
Interestingly, the new 3 Series has greatly increased practicality over the previous generation. The rear seat is larger, the trunk is MUCH bigger, and the fuel economy in the 328i is phenomenal. With everything else, this creates a truly compelling package. It's simultaneously performance car, luxury car, family car, and economy car. When would we have imagined 5.7 sec 0-60 with 35 highway mpg in a comfortable four door sedan?
#34
Well said, Rocket Man. I'm right there with you. With the TSX, I'm taking a break from European excitement, but in a couple of years I might be back in the game with the new 3 Series. My main concern is reliability. Apart from the early E90 335i with the fuel pump issues, the 3 Series has normally been okay, but the most recent 5 and 7 Series models are cause for concern. So I'll wait, and, in the meantime, save a few pennies and enjoy the TSX.
Interestingly, the new 3 Series has greatly increased practicality over the previous generation. The rear seat is larger, the trunk is MUCH bigger, and the fuel economy in the 328i is phenomenal. With everything else, this creates a truly compelling package. It's simultaneously performance car, luxury car, family car, and economy car. When would we have imagined 5.7 sec 0-60 with 35 highway mpg in a comfortable four door sedan?
Interestingly, the new 3 Series has greatly increased practicality over the previous generation. The rear seat is larger, the trunk is MUCH bigger, and the fuel economy in the 328i is phenomenal. With everything else, this creates a truly compelling package. It's simultaneously performance car, luxury car, family car, and economy car. When would we have imagined 5.7 sec 0-60 with 35 highway mpg in a comfortable four door sedan?
Yes, the new 328 is an interesting car and we'll see how reliability is.
One interesting point will be the start/stop mechanism. While it is well proven in Europe, it may be having the same issues as the fuel pumps - cheap US gas - but the start stop could have significant impacts on the catalytic converter. This is one reason why other manufacturers haven't jumped on the start/stop bandwagon yet.
Is this perhaps a contributing factor to early catalytic converter failures on Civiv Hybrids?
#35
Looks like alot of people like myself bought the TSX mainly for reliability. I think the 6MT is fun driving around, and with springs and sway bar it handles good too. I was looking into BMWs but they're a dime a dozen and all I read were horror stories on reliability.
The article is overall accurate, though not necessarily really comparable cars, but they always do that.
If I really want to be giddy driving I'll take out the twin turbo 300zx or R6.
The article is overall accurate, though not necessarily really comparable cars, but they always do that.
If I really want to be giddy driving I'll take out the twin turbo 300zx or R6.
#36
Goodbye.
Except the fuel pump issues with the 335 (and 535) continued from 2007 into 2011 and it still isn't over.
Yes, the new 328 is an interesting car and we'll see how reliability is.
One interesting point will be the start/stop mechanism. While it is well proven in Europe, it may be having the same issues as the fuel pumps - cheap US gas - but the start stop could have significant impacts on the catalytic converter. This is one reason why other manufacturers haven't jumped on the start/stop bandwagon yet.
Is this perhaps a contributing factor to early catalytic converter failures on Civiv Hybrids?
Yes, the new 328 is an interesting car and we'll see how reliability is.
One interesting point will be the start/stop mechanism. While it is well proven in Europe, it may be having the same issues as the fuel pumps - cheap US gas - but the start stop could have significant impacts on the catalytic converter. This is one reason why other manufacturers haven't jumped on the start/stop bandwagon yet.
Is this perhaps a contributing factor to early catalytic converter failures on Civiv Hybrids?
#37
Start/Stop is a great gas saving device and isn't all that jerky. You do feel the car start a bit more than in the hybrids where we have gotten used to it, but it is the long term effects of killing the cats that concerns me.
Our engines would be well suited for this as they run much smoother but most manufacturers took a wait and see attitude. SS isn't taken into consideration in the EPA cycle so you should be able to increase the city numbers by at least one mpg.
#38
Although 0-60 time would have suffered a bit, I would be interested to see where they would have placed a 2.4. Handling is much sharper with the 2.4 due to the lower weight over the front suspension.
It really is not a fair comparison because the cars are so far apart on cost.
The Acura 2.4 can be had for 32k or less, really keeping it below the "luxury" cost class, it's actually just on the high side of non-luxury. Keeping in mind the average new car price is now 29k, that says something for Honda's marketing.
I do think Honda needs to rethink the TSX and the Accord. I really think they have lost some of that Honda-ness.
It really is not a fair comparison because the cars are so far apart on cost.
The Acura 2.4 can be had for 32k or less, really keeping it below the "luxury" cost class, it's actually just on the high side of non-luxury. Keeping in mind the average new car price is now 29k, that says something for Honda's marketing.
I do think Honda needs to rethink the TSX and the Accord. I really think they have lost some of that Honda-ness.
#39
Goodbye.
Sure, but you have to turn it off each time you start the car.
Start/Stop is a great gas saving device and isn't all that jerky. You do feel the car start a bit more than in the hybrids where we have gotten used to it, but it is the long term effects of killing the cats that concerns me.
Our engines would be well suited for this as they run much smoother but most manufacturers took a wait and see attitude. SS isn't taken into consideration in the EPA cycle so you should be able to increase the city numbers by at least one mpg.
Start/Stop is a great gas saving device and isn't all that jerky. You do feel the car start a bit more than in the hybrids where we have gotten used to it, but it is the long term effects of killing the cats that concerns me.
Our engines would be well suited for this as they run much smoother but most manufacturers took a wait and see attitude. SS isn't taken into consideration in the EPA cycle so you should be able to increase the city numbers by at least one mpg.
#40
Yep. I had an extended drive in a 528 (three days) and that's the way it is designed. I actually left it on for two of the days and there is a significant difference in gas mileage - about 3mpg in my driving back and forth to work.