kretrop

You're absolutely right. And I'd just like to point out that I have apologized for how that came across. Twice. As I've stated, that was not my intent and, as I've also stated, I was (understandably, I hope) frustrated when I wrote that.

So, in case you didn't previously see those, I'll say it a third and final time: I'm sorry if I came across as short, overbearing, condescending, or whatever in that post; it was not my intent. I do appreciate the replies and feedback. Sadly, I do fall victim to emotions at times since I'm human, and hearing that my brand new, 2 month old car needs to have its engine ripped apart tends to make me a little agitated, so I'm sure that came out in the reply. Again, not my intent. Cool?

Absolutely. And, considering VTEC is implemented in this engine, I fully expect to have to check on it at times, just as I fully expect to have to check the oil a bit more regularly in a turbo car. Even at the dealership yesterday, they told me that, even under the best conditions, I should be prepared to add a little oil every 3K or so due to the nature of the engine, and I'm fine with that. But, I think we can all agree that 3 quarts is a good bit more than just topping off the oil. Heh.

Thanks Slade, and same to you. Please keep us posted on your consumption test, since they skipped right over that step for me.

Also, even though most of my driving is highway, I never use cruise. Not sure if that will be a factor or not in your consumption. The highways I drive on are simply too congested to trust a cruise control system, not to mention that I'm driving into the sun both ways, which creates some stop and go and slowed pockets where cruise just doesn't work. I'll be real curious to know if your dealer arrives at the same conclusion as mine.

Slade037

Have you seen any improvement over the month since you got the work done?

I just hit the 1000 mile mark and dropped off my car at the dealer. He said it could be a few days and he would keep me updated. I will let you know more when I get it.

So for now I suppose I'll enjoy 2012 TL loaner.

stan_t

I'll update with my status since I check the oil often. I'm over 3,000 miles, still original fill. I think oil life shows 60%. Oil level is still fine, it isn't right at the full mark but very near it, higher than half way between low and full marks. We are taking a road trip next week and I'm likely to put 1,000 miles on the car, so I'll be stopping by the dealership tomorrow to get a quart of oil to top it off some, then I'll change the oil and filter for the first time when I'm back.

I generally do my first oil change before I hit 1,000 miles, but with this car I'll push it to 4,000, I think it'll be fine. Or, I suppose I could have the dealer do an oil change tomorrow.. I'll see how much they quote me for one, I usually do these things myself.

Stan

Slade037

I didn't get my change until the 8k mark. But that was with a top off at around the 4k mark? I can't remember. My first oil change was free because I saw the Avengers with Acura and they gave out these test drive a car and get a free minor maintenance cards to help promote the ILX.

Let us know how it goes!

stan_t

I will. I'm not comfortable with pushing oil changes much past 4,000 miles, especially with dino oil. I may be old school, but it's worked well for me in the past, so I stick to changing oil and filter every 4-5K, even with synthetic.

Stan

ceb

Jiffy Lube and the oil manufacturers thank you for providing them with extra unnecessary income.

robpp

iTrader: (2)

i would agree with the OP here Ceb. you have added nothing of value here.......




why not stay the F out of the thread unless you do/

stan_t

Listen, child: I can get very creative with insults here, but I know a troll when I see one and I'm better than that. I don't visit Jiffy Lube and I'm cool with oil manufacturers products, I like them. So, why don't you worry about taking care of your own car instead of mine unless you have at least 3 words of useful advice? And, if you are so worried about oil companies getting rich, sell your car and ride a bicycle, and buy food/clothing/everything else only locally-made. Kthnksbye.

Stan

ceb

I thought you were smarter than this. I apologize for being wrong by thinking that.

It is very simple. The manufacturer (who might actually know something about his product's requirements) has determined that the OCI is in the vicinity of 7500 miles depending on driving conditions and styles. Modern oils have also progressed the the point where 20k mile OCIs are not unheard of with no resulting engine damage.

Accordingly, changing the oil at 4k miles is a waste of money and natural resources. Please show me any reputable proof that the 7500 mile OCI as required by Honda is detrimental in any way.

In addition, your blatherings are way off topic because oil consumption (the topic of this thread) has absolutely nothing to do with OCIs.

If you want to flush your money down the toilet by doing unnecessary and wasteful oil changes, then go ahead and do it - just don't proclaim them as a good thing.

stan_t

I don't want to flush my money down the toilet, nor do I do it. I care enough about the issue to check oil regularly and be on top of this. This car is new to me and I'm going by what I'm comfortable with based on the cars I previously owned.

Last new car I owned was turbocharged and called for oil changed every 3,750 miles, if that was not done a warranty claim could have been invalid. I changed oil closer to 5K mark based on what I saw and I made it fine to 81K, at which time I sold the car. Many people I know with the same car had severe oil consumption issues, I didn't.

I will most likely get a used oil analysis done at around 4,000 miles, which will help me determine how far I can push _this_ car on specific oil I choose to use. Driving conditions and specific oil used all play a role in how well the engine will be protected and I would not push the same oil past 5,000 miles without knowing the results of a used oil analysis, but that is my personal preference. One thing I can say now is my gut feeling is this engine is designed and put together very well and I will most likely be safe doing longer oil change periods than I have in the past, but I need proof of this.

The oil life display is not proof. It does not appear to be doing any actual testing of the oil's properties and probably just works off of number of cold starts and total mileage. I could probably pour a quart of water in the engine and the display will show me the same thing it shows now.

Stan

turning japanese

There's a lot of testing that goes into a manufacturer's recommendations. Despite the API standards that the oil companies still work under, the auto manufacturers have developed their own recommended OEM standards since they felt the API standards were lacking in conjunction with the manufacturers wide variety of different motor builds. Daimler AG was the first to put out their own oil requirements for wear and longevity based on testing of brand name oils. Other manufacturers followed suit and that's why we have these recommendations today from the auto manufacturer (it wasn't like that in the past; you picked an oil based solely on the oil company's own marketing.) And oil companies and auto manufacturers now work a lot closer together in developing oil formulas (and some auto manufacturer's now re-brand oils to help enforce their recommended OEM standards, like 'Honda Genuine oil.')

Honda has recommended an oil formula that they feel is best for these particular motors. It's pretty basic: if a recipe requires a certain ingredient, then why not use it. At least you'll know it will come out right and will taste good.

But if one is truly concerned and feels they should be doing more to 'improve' the recipe, then do a UOA at various intervals (you don't have to do it at each OCI; you can pull samples in-between OCIs.) The UOA will show you everything you need to know in respect to motor health (various metals and silicon, etc.) and oil health (additives and properties over time and in your driving environment.) If you do this regularly you can easily monitor the true OCI that you actually should be doing instead of just guessing by using an arbitrary number like 5k miles, etc..

If you're changing oil at an interval outside of the manufacturer's recommendation (ie, outside their 'recipe') and are NOT doing a UOA, then I'd agree 100% that is a waste of money and resources.

(fwiw, modern oils definitely have improved. A couple of issues however have been a concern due to EPA rules and regulations. One of those is the reduction of certain additives that help reduce wear. e.g., phosphorus (ZDDP) has been reduced to help prolong the life of catalytic convertors. But that's more of an issue in high performance designer motors like those with with a flat tappet design, etc..)

stan_t

Going to quote this. All oils are not created equal.

I bought a quart of magical Honda oil today, it was over $10 for a quart. It says "syntheric blend" on the bottle. Oils I'm used to using are Rotella T6 and Valvoline MaxLife (full synthetic and synthetic blend), all are between $5 and $7 per quart based on sales, etc. I could use the Honda's magical oil, or the ones I mention for half the cost, results will most likely be the same.

Mercedes/BMW are not good comparisons. They hold alot more oil and don't even have a dipstick through which moisture can get into the engine.

Stan

ceb

I'll take your two posts as an apology.

While modern BMWs have no dipstick, Mercedes continues to have dipsticks. The reason that BMW dumped the dipstick is because their testing showed that nobody checked their level. The electronic "dipstick" seemed to work better for everyone but enthusiasts. Dipsticks do not allow moisture into the engine anymore than the 710 cap.

Oh, Rotella T6 is an oil formulated for diesel engines and according to the Shell website, they have no oil suitable for our cars.

Valvoline does not recommend the use of MaxLife in newer cars. On their website they state:
"Because your engine does not yet have 75,000 miles, we did not recommend Valvoline's MaxLife® Motor Oil."
Accordingly, do you really think that you are doing your car a favor by using the wrong oil but changing it more frequently?

This "child troll" has forgotten more about motor oils than you will ever learn.

stan_t

Why am I arguing about this? lol

MaxLife does not have a 0w20 oil (you don't need to have 75K on the car to run it lol, it's a great stable oil based on great quality stock and will work great in newish engines). Rotella T6 is 5w40. Neither should be used in the car that calls for 0w20 weight (should work well in the first gen TSX though). You are correct. I only mentioned them from experience with previous cars and to compare prices (they are both great oils).

Point is, check your oil often, and many new cars do burn oil. Many will listen to the manufacturer's recommendation and ignore it until the light comes on a few thousand miles down the road, I say check it regularly and don't let it get low in the first place. I have seen posts of people blow up engines in their brand new cars 7,000+ miles into the first oil fill -- brand new car, manual says "change oil at 7,500 miles", people never made it to the first oil change.

Stan

turning japanese

My E63 AMG Mercedes certainly had a dipstick. And moisture is not an issue with motors having dipsticks.

Daimler specified Mobil 1 0W-40 European Formula as the oil for the M156 motor that was built for this car by the motor builders in Affalterbach. The M156 is covered in Daimler's 299.51 lubricant spec sheet. I don't know a single AMG owner with the M156 motor who deviated from that 299.51 spec. No one argued with Daimler and AMG about the oil that the company tested extensively for use in this motor and explicitly specified (with a big asterisk on the 299.51 sheets.)

But the point I had made was not about Daimler per se, but simply as an example as the first motor builder to start an OEM specification that all manufacturers now do on their own. They all have their specific recommendations designed around their own testing and experience based on their own specific motor designs. A TSX owner would be wise to follow Honda's recommendations. And as far as 'Genuine Honda oil' is concerned, as I said it is a re-branded oil that is recommended so that consumers don't use the wrong oil. You can use an equivalent (dino or syn) API Starburst labeled oil, but obviously stay within the Honda motor oil specs for your motor.

Same here. This is a dialogue that has pretty much spent itself out years ago, and today just tends to go around in circles.

When I owned my very first Porsche, people used to hunt down sources for dino oil from the original Pennsylvania pool that the early Kendall oils came from (Brad Penn is the last of the dino oils from that pool.) But once Porsche decided that the US API standards weren't strict enough for their modern motors, they developed their own OEM standards and today owners will use what Porsche now recommends.

Engine failure from oil issues (aside from any mechanical lubrication problems or lubrication design issues) are pretty much non-existent today. And that goes for extended OCIs. Any good oil analysis lab will tell you that if your oil looks good at say 8-9k miles, then you should consider a longer OCI. And that's the point of the UOA, to let you know when to really change your oil. Otherwise do what the mfg recommends. Or spend money and waste resources to make yourself feel better (hey it's no biggie, people do that everyday at Starbucks.) It's the choice of each consumer to do what works for them personally.

btw, here's some food for thought:
"Against conventional wisdom, engine wear decreases as oil ages to a certain extent, which means that changing your oil more frequently actually causes engine wear; these findings were substantiated by studies conducted by the auto manufacturers and petroleum companies, leading to drain interval increases."

stan_t

I'm not here to argue, I'm sharing oil monitoring status as a new owner of a 2012. I think we all ultimately agree anyway and are talking about the same thing, but whatever.

I just got done topping off the engine, car is in the garage, cold engine, sat overnight. I brought the level up to about a millimeter below the top hole on the dipstick. It took less than half a quart -- the amount of oil left in the bottle is at 630ml mark. Car has 3,165 miles on the odometer.

Stan

Slade037

Well after their "oil consumption" test they didn't find anything conclusive. The oil level was a little below the top line so they want me to come back in another 1000 miles.

Also, in the comment they said, "recommend getting an oil change before 8k."

So when the customer service person called, I was like, "so what's the point of the oil life meter if the dealer wants me to come in before my car tells me to?"

"We'll log your comment and get back to you."

Awesome. Guess we'll see in another 1000 miles ....

Kretrop, how goes your new jount? Did it fix your oil consumption or is it too soon to tell?

khoacu2

acura did have some issue with the tsx loosen oil on some model i seen some that need to put new rings due to being too small hope they find your guys issue

and tell the acura reps to check the vin make sure you dont have any recall or i can check it for you guys just pm me if you have any question i'm a acura rep

Slade037

Well after another 1200 miles, I brought my car back in. This time around it looks like it has consumed about a quarter quart of oil. Acura says that is ok but my service rep is going to investigate a little further. I'll see what happens and hopefully a resolution is around the corner. If they don't do anything I may have to reference this forum.

Khoacu2 I may take you up on your offer if they don't take any action. Thanks!

ceb

A quarter of a quart over 1200 miles is nothing. Industry standard is that anything under a quart per 1k miles is fine - although I wouldn't be happy with that.

stan_t

Quart of oil in 1,200 is not nothing, though I know what you mean about it being considered "normal". It adds up to a full re-fill between oil changes. It is high consumption to me.

Just as a datapoint: I did my first oil change this weekend at 5,231 miles. Oil change reminder still said "40%", say what you want but it's my car and I do what I feel comfortable with. In the future I may go longer.

In that first 5,231 miles, the car took a hair bit more than half a quart of total topping off, and I aim to keep the oil level right at the "full" mark. I never baby my cars, it sees plenty of revvs above 5K and occasional run up to 7K, I drive smoothly but don't believe in easy break-in.

I used the OEM filter and oil from dealership, 4.5 quarts went in.

Stan

EzeE1o

i too did my first oil change this wkd, ~6,100 miles, oil life at 30%. My oil level prior to the change was a little under half a quart consumed.

09TSXMT

Hey guys, new to the forum.. I have a 09 with m/t, had the low oil light turn on for a brief second today.. Going to the dealer next week. Had to add a quart and a half to get it filled to the top dot. The car only has 36K on it. Mostly highway miles. I'm just curious what the dealer is going to say and try to wiggle their way out of this or should I not be concerned. What was the outcome of the cars that were fixed and are they still consuming oil at a high rate, even after the repair?

ceb

When did you last check the oil level?

09TSXMT

I had previously checked it about 3 weeks prior to that and it looked fine. I've only had the car since 08/20.

BobbyC

Id call the dealer and have them send a tow truck.
You dont wanna do more damage driving to the dealer with no oil in the car

Slade037

My dealer and Acura Corp said my oil loss was normal which BS. Unfortunately I was dealing with family issues and haven't had a chance to follow up. Plan on bringing it back again when the light comes back on ...

BobbyC

that does sound like bs.
im comin up on 3k now. ill let you know if that happens to me..

ceb

That's absurd unless he has a visible leak or the dealer is far away.

Not much the dealer can do anyway - he can check for leaks but if the oil level is fine he'll just tell the customer to keep an eye on it and come back if he notices a drop.

Auto or manual?

BobbyC

eh. knowing my luck, id drive to the dealer and have the engine lock up and the dealer say its my fault for driving without oil.

09TSXTech

I have to add one litre between service (7-8,000 miles). The car only exhibit oil consumption problem around 50K miles (80K km). The dealer could't do anything about it as Honda requirement is 1 litre of oil per 1,000 miles for warranty repair.

I have switched over to Mobil 1 synthetic from conventional oil after that, oil consumption remains the same but the car definitely revs better. Coming from a 90 Civic Si which had 265,000 miles on it when I sold it in 08, 1 litre of oil between oil change is no big deal. (The old Civic require a litre every 2 weeks, and I was using 20W50).

09TSXTech

Used to work at a full serve gas station while going to college back in the 80's. Always asked customer if they need to have their coolant and oil level check.

Became a habit to check the fluid levels every time I fuel up.

kball

Can the OP come back and let us know what the outcome was?
I'm not sure why there was such a pissing contest earlier in the thread (other than, Hey its the internet!!!!) I found his comments and information interesting and helpful. Which i suppose is the whole point of forums like this. JMO

GrigioTSX10

IMO having a consumption test after one occurrence of the low oil light is an overreaction. My low oil light came on once after a sharp turn and never again after that.

tobey457

My car is burning 0 oil, it's always on the full mark, and I get the low oil ping on command when I take a hard enough right hand turn. I'm at almost 14k on a 2011 TSX.

tvac

I know a guy at work with an '09 auto with 104K. Acura just rebuilt his engine (new rings) due to excess oil consumption. Acura eat most of it, his cost $200.

Slade037

For me, it was more than just one time. Anytime I broke hard or made a quick turn it would come on. They filled once and then about 4000 miles later, it did the same thing.

stan_t

If the light comes on, either the sensor is faulty (unlikely), or you are sucking in air instead of oil. So, either the oil pickup tube came loose in the pan (not too likely), or you are low on oil.

It is basically a "no pressure" warning, which is really bad. Your main and rod bearings will be toast in quick order and oil pressure will never be great again after that.

Stan

stan_t

Heh. I was at a red light behind another SE today, and I snapped this picture. Check out the smoked bumper around his tail pipes. That car burns oil.



Stan

09TSXMT

quick update.....after 100 miles on the dealer consumption test. the level was between the two holes on the stick which is "normal" according to acura. However, they did say they are seeing more and more of these cars come in. He stated to bring it back if the light comes back on. I'm guessing if they see a ton of these vehicles coming in with the same problem Acura will have to do something about it. I'm just going to play the game and see if a recall comes out before my powertrain warranty runs out in two more years