MrOtocinclus

My lease ends in about 8 months, and being a little OCD I've already started thinking about what I'm going to do. I previously believed that it was not financially savvy to buy a car at lease-end, but I like my car so much now that I'm having second thoughts. Here are some quick pros and cons:

Pros to keeping:
1. Still loving the car.
2. Car seems to be running better with age, can't duplicate it with a new car.
3. Know the car and its capabilities pretty well so I can maximize the driving experience.

Cons:
1. Curious about other cars such as the 2011 (better nav screen, rear a/c), and 370z (want to know what having a real Japanese sports car is like).
2. There's a huge ding on my driver's side rear door that's been there for ages that costs $800 to fix. Acura should cover it on lease end, but if I want to keep my car I will have to shell out the money to fix it or live with it.
3. Known brake problem with this model, my brakes are starting to make noise (17k miles). Rear inner pads much more worn than outer.
4. Financial hit from not financing the car in the beginning (i.e. do I love the car *that* much?).

So, what do you guys think? Keep or walk away? Why?

defconskylude

id say keep it. how often are you in the back seat to even experience the rear a/c? better NAV is subjective.

you're 32 man, not sure what a 370z is going to help you besides experiencing a japanese sports car. rent a 370z for a week or drive a friends 370z if they have one. you can go to vegas and drive an exotic car (lambo, ferrari, etc) for $400

do you have a family yet or still living the single life?

im in a 3 year lease too. i have about less than a 1.5 years left. i couldve financed it in the beginning but the payments were going to be like $550 a month and had a baby coming in. so i leased it instead and dropped the payments down to $450 with the intention to buy it out at the end of the lease. besides with all the modifications ive done, i have to buy the car.

btw can i have your rims? hehe

09TSXTech

I am facing the same situation except mine is in 5 months vs 8 months.

Go test drive the 2011 TSX and 370Z first, then decide.

I personally love driving the car, brake is not an issue for me as my Canadian dealer replaced both front and rear pads with new redesigned ones under warranty last year.

I have put numerous upgrades to the car (mostly EUDM, NADM and JDM OEM accessories). I have also put a lot of miles on the car (73K km or 45K miles so far), so there will be mileage penalty if I return the car to dealer.

So for me, I think in all probability will be keeping it when June comes around.

ed_423

i call dips on his rims!

and..i cant really comment or give advice cuz i never leased any car and am still young..so i'd jstu say..good luck with the decision! haha

ressling

I'm in the same boat. My lease is due at year end.

I say keep it. I'm assuming your residual is around $18k? I plan on keeping mine, because quite honestly I cannot find another car that fits the bill for luxury and affordability than a used TSX (that I know the entire history of).

How many miles you got on it? That should be a factor as well. I will probably only have 22k or so on mine when mine is due. Ultimately you have to ask yourself, can I get a good used car with under 30k miles on it, for under 20 grand?

Another thought: only buy your TSX if you plan on keeping it for a good while (5+ more years). Then you'll definitely get your money's worth. The thing about leasing is, you've already chewed up the majority of depreciation during your lease term, since it was a new car at the time.

ressling

^ oh and by the way, a 350z (or 370z for that matter) is not a practical car. I had one for 6 months and ended up selling it. It's not an ideal daily driver.

Sure it's fun, but 1.) higher insurance 2.) potentially higher maintenance 3.) can only haul one passenger 4.) no cargo space

TSteezyX

Mine goes back in a year.

Dumping it and not looking back

Will be looking to get into something RWD+more power.

Get a 370z! You only have so much time here on earth -- might as well enjoy it.

And besides, if you're looking to start a family soon, you won't be able to have a 370z initially -- maybe 15 years from now when your kids have grown up, etc...but by then you'll be old and crippled. Enjoy one now before it's too late!

MrOtocinclus

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions, everyone.

It's just me and my wife, no plans for kids yet, hence the 370z consideration.

That's a good idea, I suppose nothing matters until I actually drive those other cars. The 370z looks good on paper, but until I drive it for myself I won't know. On a related note, I used to like the IS250 on paper, but after sitting in one and realizing it had no hand brake, I'll never purchase one.

Tech, between the mods and you telling us about owning your old Civic SI forever, I just assumed you financed the TSX. What a surprise to know you're leasing it too!

That's a very good point. My residual is $20.5k so after taxes it would be about $22k. I'll have to see what the market value of the car is at that time.

That is true, either drive it until the wheels fall off, or don't buy it and get to drive different cars every few years. Man, I thought I'd settled that question 2 years ago, but again I guess something on paper is no match for real life. 8 months from now my circumstances may yet be different than they are now.

ressling, what other cars have you had besides the 370z and the TSX?

09TSXTech

^Reason for leasing is because the company I worked for agreed to lease something under C$40K (tax reason).

I bought extended warranty (7yrs/160K km) also at the inception of lease. In June, I will buy out the car with most of the mods and all services paid for by the company. All my mods, including the floor mats were put on after the lease, so I don't end up paying for the residues at the end. And yes, I am planning to keep this car for a long time, not sure if I can beat the Civic Si 18 yrs 425K km record though.

KeithL

My philosophy is to get rid of it unless they make you a very attractive offer to buy it. I suspect you can sell the car for more than they want to buy it, or better yet get a decnt trade on it toward a 2011. I always feel that buying out a lease is more expensive than buying it up front becasue you usually wind up paying more in the end.

ressling

My very first car was a '95 Maxima. Awful color, (beige) but absolutely loved the car. I sold that and bought my mom's 2003 Maxima that had about 45k on the odometer. I miss my 2003 Maxima; it was the titanium version, silver. Nice ride. Probably should've never gotten rid of it, but I had my eyes set on a Z.

I traded in the '03 Max for a 2006 Z; biggest mistake I made was getting the Z in an auto. Yes, I realize that you're only young once, but quite honestly the Z is just not that practical. They sure do retain their value very well though.

I got rid of the Z after 6 months, finished out the lease on my dad's 2006 330i (fun car), and leased my own 2009 TSX. I wasn't going to buy out my dad's lease on his BMW, because they wanted nearly $30k for it at the time, and maintenance is a nightmare on Bimmers.

Quite honestly, my favorite ride out of all the cars that I've had or driven is the TSX - it's the best bang for the buck. Overall seat comfort, driveability, fun factor, size, look, stereo, super low maintenance, etc. I put $3k down on my lease, with the intention that I would eventually buy. I would've bought flat out, but didn't have enough cash at the time to keep payments affordable.

Your situation is somewhat different though. $20k residual is kind of high in my opinion. Unless you absolutely cannot live without the car, you may want to consider buying a used 2010 TSX, assuming you don't have to have the latest model. I think you could save some money there, especially in a private sale. Be sure to monitor Azine for members that sell their rides.

Have you given the Hyundai Genesis coupe (manual) a test drive? I wonder how she drives...

Dan00313

I would suggest to get rid of the car at lease end and if your that satisfied with the TSX, either choose another lease on a 2011 or just buy a 2011 car outright. Unless you put a significant amount of money down on your current TSX lease I wouldn't buy it out. Also in regard to the Z, they are awesome cars I've always wanted one myself, but they lease horribly and are terrible in most weather conditions where I live. I'm a performance guy at heart (came from an evo x) and currently drive a TSX and I've also been more then happy with what this car has to offer for the money.

defconskylude

That 20k residual is based on Tech right?

My residual is about $16k-17k for non Tech.

ed_423

maybe im still young..but i'd wanna try the Z haha

Luchin

[QUOTE=TSteezyX;12612700]Mine goes back in a year.

Dumping it and not looking back

^+1.

I don't hate my TSX but I can't say I love it either. The engine knocking drives me nuts and the fact that Honda said it was normal for almost a year before they decided to change the knock sensor and reflash the ECU has me wondering. Especially since it's still knocking.

I already purchased an 06 Subaru Outback XT (turbo wagon) and my TSX has been in the garage ever since. It's not due to go back to Acura until June of this year. I know, some of you are going to say I took a step backwards and as far as interior creature comforts go, you are all right. However my Subaru has AWD, a turbo, and a load of space which has already come in handy more then once. Not to mention camping and mountain biking will be much easier.

All that said, I don't get attached to cars so none of it's a big deal to me. If Acura puts a 6MT and SH-AWD in the V6 equipped TSX they will have my attention.

Luchin

Have a look at the new 2011 Subaru Legacy GT 6MT. AWD and 0-60 in ~ 5.6 sec.

CU2MIKE

My lease is up next year, and I'm definitely keeping it!
It has been a trouble free 65,000+ miles, so it has been good to me, why dump it if yours also have been good to you?

kowloonsniperhk

Depends on how good of a price they offer you at the end of your lease. Leasing company if in their interest will try to offer you to buy it since they will get a bigger hit if they try to auction it since they have to pay for auction fees and other stuff. And the buyout is negotiable.

As for choosing a different car or upgrading to the '11. You could lease the '11 if you really care for the nav screen. Other than that, no performance change.

Since im young, I still want a 370Z Nismo, but knowing financially that would be more of a weekend driver. Unless the TSX is your third car, or if you have another car that has room to buy groceries etc, I don't think the Z is the best idea.

24boosted

I didn't lease mine but wished I had. No offense to other owners but, the TSX has been a let down and I can't talk my wife into trading a brand new car for something else. LOL As far as getting a 370z, you might end up like me, forced to get a 2nd car due to practicality. It's pretty tough to live with a small 2 seater with barely a trunk.

HondaOnWORKS

I might be young, but I do feel that you shouldn't get the 370z. Financially, the Z isn't a good choice. Think about it. The 370z isn't the gas saver, and premium gas is nearing $3.50 in the Bay Area. Also Yahoo released an article claiming that gas will hit $4 dollars in 2011. Also, I agree with 24boosted said. If you get a Z, you will need a second car for practicality. Also insurance on a 370z isn't exactly cheap either.

You're a married man, and there is no need to drive a sports car anymore. Its pointless. How are you going to do your shopping in a Z? The Z sucks in real-world driving. The ride is horrible in regular streets, and the space? Well there basically isn't any considering the 2seater setup. Trunk space is also minimum.

In my opinion, think about the long run. If you were to lease, it might last a few years and what if you want kids during those few years? The Z isn't suited for a married man, no offense. There's too much stuff going on in your life, and you have responsibilities now. You can't be like us young folks that don't give a crap anymore.

I'll say keep the TSX, and it will be a good car for you and your wife. Even before having kids. A lot of room for all your daily needs.

TSteezyX

...Maybe his wife has a car also that they use for trips to the store?

The Z isn't that impractical -- you can fit a decent amount of stuff in it if you pack things in a smart manner.

Obviously, he wouldn't be considering a 370Z if it were their only vehicle in the house.

I'd say get one now before the kids come along, because after that you won't have time for a fun, RWD sports car.

MrOtocinclus

Quote:

Originally Posted by ressling

$20k residual is kind of high in my opinion.

Have you given the Hyundai Genesis coupe (manual) a test drive? I wonder how she drives...

The way I understand it is that when leasing, a higher residual is better so that you're paying less for the depreciation. I also paid as little as possible up front, and with my good credit got the lowest money factor. This is also part of the reason I'm reluctant to keep the car.

I have seen the Genesis around these parts. I believe the best model comes with 19-inch rims and Brembo brakes, among other things? Although it looks nice, I cannot get over the Hyundai name, so I'm not considering that car.

Your car history is pretty varied, including the Z and 330i. You've gotten to drive some nice cars! My car history is the TSX, then my wife's CM5 Accord (which she still has), and my family's '98 Camry. The TSX is the first car I ever acquired, so that's part of the reason I'm reluctant to say goodbye.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan00313

Also in regard to the Z, they are awesome cars I've always wanted one myself, but they lease horribly and are terrible in most weather conditions where I live.

Where do you live? I'm on the west coast, so we have pretty stable weather over here. I tend to agree with you regarding the lease, I did not see any offers on Nissan's website. Interestingly enough, the G37 has plenty of offers.



Yes, at the end of the day, these are just pieces of metal and rubber and plastic, and yet, people can be so passionate about them!



Wow, that's a lot of miles, I wonder how much you'd get docked for going over mileage? Or, did you pay for extra miles beforehand?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HondaOnWORKS

I might be young, but I do feel that you shouldn't get the 370z. Financially, the Z isn't a good choice. Think about it. The 370z isn't the gas saver, and premium gas is nearing $3.50 in the Bay Area. Also Yahoo released an article claiming that gas will hit $4 dollars in 2011. Also, I agree with 24boosted said. If you get a Z, you will need a second car for practicality. Also insurance on a 370z isn't exactly cheap either.

I hate using "lol", but I lol'd after reading your post. You make a lot of valid points. However, as TSteezyX suggested, I do still have my wife's Accord which I could use to go grocery shopping and be practical with.

In terms of financial sensibility, it could be argued that any luxury car isn't a good choice. At the most basic level these hunks of metal are just modes of transportation, no? Why drive the car in your avatar instead of a '98 Camry, for example?

I am a little concerned about the ride on regular streets, so I will have to test drive it for sure before I even consider buying/leasing it.

Unless something dramatically changes, I will not want kids in a few years. Also, that's why I would want the 370z. I have too many damn responsibilities, it's stressful.

Finally, yes, the TSX is an awesome car for my wife and I. It's a good size, you can fit stuff in it, and it's relatively comfortable (she's not a fan of the 19s+Eibach).

CU2MIKE

I'm buying it when the lease is over.
It's technically "company car" right now, lol.

HondaOnWORKS

True, that a luxury car would consider to be more expensive to maintain compared to a Camry. But I believe sport cars are much more expensive compared to luxury cars, I mean you have MPG to worry about. Also usually insurance cost way more for sport cars.

For the 370Z's ride, you would have try it yourself. I was at my cousin's house in SF, and we were hungry so I went to get food. I borrowed his 370Z to go get us food, because my cars were still back at LA. As I was driving along in his car, I felt uncomfortable in city streets. There wasn't stop and go traffic, but there was traffic and it made the Z feel even worst. I think the ride for the Z is pretty bad, that's just my opinion though. Try it out for yourself.

Maybe coupe that is not a 2 seater? Check out the 335i coupe. They are pretty fun to drive. Or maybe a 4 door sport car? Evo X? STI? Just asking.

ed_423

ohh i didnt know u have an accord in the family already..in that case..i say go for a sports car!

Craig-D

Mine goes back in May and I'm torn. Much like you, I crave RWD and more power than just 200 hp - which is what a frickin' Hyundai Sonata now offers in base trim. I constantly struggle with the fact that most plain jane V6 family cars can crush a $30k TSX from a stoplight. Drove my friend's BMW 328i on a 2 hour trip - and that was the driving experience I expect in a luxury sports car.

So the only question is: Am I willing to lease a nearly $40k vehicle to have that experience, or save the money and live with the TSX's compromises? Even if I were to lease another TSX, I'll basically be driving the same car for 6 years as they barely changed anything for 2011.

ronhensley

I don't know if this helps some of you but here is some info on leasing. If you work for a company that pays for the monthly payment, get the highest monthly payment and lowest residual available. The lease payment is based off a percentace of MSRP you get the residual percentage to go down buy getting more miles (A car with 60k miles is worth less then the same car with 30k miles). I have customers who get car allowances that drive 10 to 15k a year getting 20k or more miles so they have low residuals. Then at the end of the lease they TRADE in the car along with there spouses car and use the equity out of the leased car (it is then worth more then the buyout so you have equity) and buy the spouse a new car with the equity out of the company leased car. Totally legal and as long as the company is OK with the payments then there is never a problem there. What people have to remember is the car is worth what it is worth. If you get low payments on a lease then the buyout will be higher. There is no way around paying $30K for a $30K car. There are advantages to leasing, do the pro's outweigh the cons. You automatically get gap insurance with a lease so if you total the car and there is a gap between what insurance pays and the payoff it is covered. If something happens like it did to the Camry and the car you leased value plummits you can always walk away, if the car retains it value better then exspected you can actually build equity in the car and use it to trade in on a new one if you would like. Honda Motor corp (including Acura) is an excellent company to lease from, if you but it out early or trade the lease in early there is no prepayment penalty, they offer discounts if you release and go over on miles, sometimes offering to get you out of your lease early without paying the final payment. Try doing any of that with a big 3 american auto makers.

Chewbach

Maybe "legal", but I don't know if I'd call this moral.

MrOtocinclus

So I test drove the 335is today... 320hp with 7 speed DCT, and 50/50 weight distribution. Wow! Very nice car inside and out, and with the current lease offer the monthly payment is just slightly more than what I'm paying for the TSX. This car's definitely on my short list now.

After the test drive I took my TSX up to the hills for some spirited driving. Still love this car as well, but more than likely I will be turning it in at lease end. It's really fun driving new cars.

09TSXTech

The 335is is a beautiful car and must be a blast to drive. I believe it comes with 4yrs/50K miles maintenance program, so all you pretty much need is gas and insurance to drive.

The new turbo engine uses single-turbo twin-scroll N55 engine vs the older version the twin-turbo N54. The N54 has numerous recall on their fuel pump which rendered the vehicle inoperable. Hopefully that is fixed in the newer engine.

Craig-D

A base 330is has a MSRP of $51k. How can the lease payments possibly be just slightly more than a $30k TSX? I'm leasing a 2011 TSX tech for $345 a month with no money down. There's no way a 330is lease payment is only slighty higher than that unless you have to put a small fortune down to lower the payment. Put no money down and divide that down payment by the term of the lease to get the real monthly cost. You'll find the 330is is substantially more a month than a TSX.

MrOtocinclus

My base rent for the '09 tech is $400/month, which after taxes is about $450. The current BMW offer is $509/month before taxes, albeit with a $3300 down payment. I suppose that the word "slightly" is subjective, but I think upgrading to a 335is for $3300 and an extra $100 a month is probably a good value. Again, it's up to the reader to decide whether $3300 is a "bundle".

I acquired my '09 right before the stock market tanked in 2008. I don't remember the details but I did my homework and got a pretty good lease deal, with no money down. I do not believe in putting money down for a lease (with exception above for the really good factory offers).

Another factor to consider is that I live in California. Car prices vary dramatically across the country, and I would argue that prices in California are higher than prices in New Jersey, regardless of the state of the economy.

MrOtocinclus

Yes, it was quite a blast to drive for sure. Before seeing the car in person I figured it would be better to get 18 inch wheels, but the car I test drove had 19s and the ride was smoother than the TSX, so that was a pleasant surprise.

I have read about the issue with the HPFP, and I hope it's fixed, too! You are a walking car encyclopedia, Tech!

09TSXTech

^Try Canada, your price on a BMW is at least $10K lower than ours. The starting price is $59K, metallic color add another $800, Navi another $2000, 7 spd DCT -$1,950... You get the picture.

I am buying mine out in June, the 6MT is too much fun to drive and with my high mileage (avg 16K miles a year) and the fact they discontinued 6MT on the Tech model in 2011 up North here.

Good Luck Mr. Oto.

MrOtocinclus

Definitely makes sense, plus your car is awesome, it would be a shame to remove all the mods on it. Thank you!

Craig-D, I just re-read the thread and saw that your lease is also expiring soon, next month. What have you decided to do with your TSX?

09TSXTech

Regarding the wheels, BMW ones are staggered, cannot be rotated and are run flat tires. Fronts run $300 each, rear $400 each. Careful with the LEAD FOOT

Stock 18 x 8 in front 225/40/18 and 18 x 8.5 in the rear with 255/35/18 run-flat performance tires.

Optional 19" X 8.0" front & 19" X 9.0" rear DOUBLE-SPOKE LIGHT ALLOY WHEELS (STYLE 313) -225/35R19 front & 255/30R19 rear run-flat performance tires.

Simba91102

Good point about the runflats. They came on my Z4 (and in the same sizes as mentioned above since it had the sport package). I didn't run them long though. I'm not a fan of the whole runflat fad for a number of reasons. I drive mainly early AM and often in the middle of "nowhere", so I don't want to be stuck on one of those after they start to "run flat". They're not repairable, and considering their cost, a roofing nail can become a very expensive proposition. Also, they tend to ride pretty hard. I bought a set of BMW wheels (from an X5 actually) and some tires to replace them and just set the runflats aside till I sold the car. I picked up a spare off ebay, and that was that. In my old guy opinion, the whole runflat experiment is an answer to a question that no one asked. And judging by the fact that they're still pretty rare as OE, I'd guess I'm not alone.

Nogard13

Honnestly (as a BMW owner), I don't think the 335is is worth the premium over the 335i ($51K vs $44K). All you get is 20hp, comfort access (a $500 option on the 335i), and a 7sp dual-clutch DCT. Not worth it, IMHO.

Why not look at a 328i sedan? You can get 230hp, RWD, no HPFP issues, and a much better price. I bet you can even lease one for less than you're paying for your TSX.

MrOtocinclus

Nogard13, I appreciate the input, it's definitely something to think about. Here are some immediate thoughts:

Initially the E92 328i was what caught my eye. I had never been a big fan of BMWs. My only experience with BMW was a 5 series that I rented for a couple of days while on vacation, and I was not impressed. The styling of the E92, on the other hand, really does it for me. Then, last Friday I went to test drive the 335is on a whim, and the whole experience was very positive. I got to see and feel the interior (again, was never a fan prior) and I walked away feeling very excited.

I did some comparing on bmwusa.com and the reason I picked the 335is over the other offerings is that it really does seem to embody the "ultimate driving machine" catchphrase. With all due respect, and IMHO, the DCT is worth the price of admission, not to mention the tuned engine and the performance exhaust (gotta hear it to really be impressed by it). One might suggest that I go the M3 route then, but to me the M3 seems more common than the 335is, and I am also afraid it might be out of my price range.

Lastly (don't want to write a novel), if I do get it it will be my first BMW, and I figure why not go for the "best" model if I'm going to do it? I work hard everyday, especially lately with a lot of drama at work, and it would be nice to reward myself at the end of the day (the TSX currently fills this role).

Which BMW do you own? How would you rate the overall ownership experience?

KillerG

i know nothing about beamers, cept driving an e46 for a few days while my friend had alcohol poisoning, but even if the M3 is frighteningly common, you still cant go wrong with it.

at 51xxx its coming oddly close to the 57xxx base asking price for the M3. I mean, i understand that in reality its not as simple as a 6k increase and a lot of other costs come into the picture, but like you said, you are a hard working guy and you are going to be treating yourself.

why not go all the way?

treat yourself to the ultimate ULTIMATE driving machine. There are many people out there whod argue the point that the M3 is the best overall car you can buy for the price in terms of well...everything.

It might fall out of your price range, but see if you can stretch a bit or take some out on financing, it will be eveything the 335is is and more. Sure its not as rare, but then again, theres a reason the m3 is popular

Switch to 1 ply toilet paper if you have to


my $.04