interesting article...
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SeeYou2Crew #2
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Socal 626
interesting article...
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...r-maintenance/
pay attention especially on the premium fuel one. quite interesting....
pay attention especially on the premium fuel one. quite interesting....
dont know about the 2nd gen TSX but the 3rd GEN TL has a high compression engine. 11:1 that is race car status.
We need 93 and up.
or else we get knock.
the ECU does pull timing, but then you get worse gas mileage and less performance...
For you TSXers just go by what the manual states.
this article is for econoboxes.
We need 93 and up.
or else we get knock.
the ECU does pull timing, but then you get worse gas mileage and less performance...
For you TSXers just go by what the manual states.
this article is for econoboxes.
Last edited by justnspace; Mar 2, 2011 at 03:54 PM.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Vancouver, BC
Interesting article ed.
The premium fuel debate has been ongoing in this forum. Put things into perspective, our car has high compression ratio 11.0:1, logic dictates higher octane gas is needed. While engine knock sensors can retard the timing to prevent pinging and thereby reduce power, the question is why bother. You purchased a sports sedan in part because of performance.
With oil prices shotting above $102 a barrel due to unrest in the Middle East, gas prices in California is now above $4 a gallon. The price difference between regular and premium is around $0.30, take your driving habit into consideration (10K miles a year, avg 25mpg), we are talking about $120 annual difference or $10 a month. If price difference is $0.20/gal, then we are talking about $80/yr and $7/month. We pay $5.00 a gallon here in Canada, $5.60 a gallon for Premium. That translate into $400 per year difference for me (I drive 17K miles a year) which I still gladly pay.
The premium fuel debate has been ongoing in this forum. Put things into perspective, our car has high compression ratio 11.0:1, logic dictates higher octane gas is needed. While engine knock sensors can retard the timing to prevent pinging and thereby reduce power, the question is why bother. You purchased a sports sedan in part because of performance.
With oil prices shotting above $102 a barrel due to unrest in the Middle East, gas prices in California is now above $4 a gallon. The price difference between regular and premium is around $0.30, take your driving habit into consideration (10K miles a year, avg 25mpg), we are talking about $120 annual difference or $10 a month. If price difference is $0.20/gal, then we are talking about $80/yr and $7/month. We pay $5.00 a gallon here in Canada, $5.60 a gallon for Premium. That translate into $400 per year difference for me (I drive 17K miles a year) which I still gladly pay.
Last edited by 09TSXTech; Mar 2, 2011 at 04:13 PM.
Thread Starter
SeeYou2Crew #2
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Socal 626
well said tech. i still use premium. i have been tempted to try mid grade or even the lowest...but when i look at my car i couldnt help but baby it. so i press 91 everytime. haha
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2009
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For the '09, premium is required. For the '11, it's now recommended and not required. From the '11 manual:
Use of a lower octane gasoline can cause occasional metallic knocking noise in the engine and will result in decreased engine performance.
Use of a gasoline with a pump octane less than 87 can lead to engine damage.
So, I guess if you can live with the occasional knocking noise, then regular is the way to go.
I agree with 09TSXTech; when you think about it, the difference isn't that much. I find it amusing when people travel extra distance to fuel up at a gas station that's a few pennies cheaper. Penny wise, pound foolish my friends!!
Use of a lower octane gasoline can cause occasional metallic knocking noise in the engine and will result in decreased engine performance.
Use of a gasoline with a pump octane less than 87 can lead to engine damage.
So, I guess if you can live with the occasional knocking noise, then regular is the way to go.
I agree with 09TSXTech; when you think about it, the difference isn't that much. I find it amusing when people travel extra distance to fuel up at a gas station that's a few pennies cheaper. Penny wise, pound foolish my friends!!
Trending Topics
ehh its first gen TSX but u get the picture...
https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-tsx-2004-2008-124/fuel-premium-regular-810117/
u guys should input over there also...
https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-tsx-2004-2008-124/fuel-premium-regular-810117/
u guys should input over there also...
Thread Starter
SeeYou2Crew #2
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,574
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From: Socal 626
lol my bad. i dont head over the 1st gen section as much lol. the topic has been discussed a few times here too, but i thought i'd post the article since it specifically addressed the issue thats all 
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: Austin, TX
Anyways, I wont be saving much by switching to a lower grade.
.
SEEYOU2CREW
Joined: Sep 2010
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From: Houston | New Orleans
Still, I always use shell's V-Power gas (which says 93 on it). I need that V-Power so that my VTEC works correctly.
Thread Starter
SeeYou2Crew #2
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Socal 626
no wonder my vtec hasnt been kicking in properly...
the high compression engine loves the high octane.
A member has hooked up a knock monitor and observed that a mixture of 100 and 93 to make roughly about 96 octane stopped the knock in the TL.
Remember the compression is 11:1 on the TL.
Get the Highest octane that is available to you.
A member has hooked up a knock monitor and observed that a mixture of 100 and 93 to make roughly about 96 octane stopped the knock in the TL.
Remember the compression is 11:1 on the TL.
Get the Highest octane that is available to you.
You see me, I CU2
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,616
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From: Toronto
Interesting article ed.
The premium fuel debate has been ongoing in this forum. Put things into perspective, our car has high compression ratio 11.0:1, logic dictates higher octane gas is needed. While engine knock sensors can retard the timing to prevent pinging and thereby reduce power, the question is why bother. You purchased a sports sedan in part because of performance.
With oil prices shotting above $102 a barrel due to unrest in the Middle East, gas prices in California is now above $4 a gallon. The price difference between regular and premium is around $0.30, take your driving habit into consideration (10K miles a year, avg 25mpg), we are talking about $120 annual difference or $10 a month. If price difference is $0.20/gal, then we are talking about $80/yr and $7/month. We pay $5.00 a gallon here in Canada, $5.60 a gallon for Premium. That translate into $400 per year difference for me (I drive 17K miles a year) which I still gladly pay.
The premium fuel debate has been ongoing in this forum. Put things into perspective, our car has high compression ratio 11.0:1, logic dictates higher octane gas is needed. While engine knock sensors can retard the timing to prevent pinging and thereby reduce power, the question is why bother. You purchased a sports sedan in part because of performance.
With oil prices shotting above $102 a barrel due to unrest in the Middle East, gas prices in California is now above $4 a gallon. The price difference between regular and premium is around $0.30, take your driving habit into consideration (10K miles a year, avg 25mpg), we are talking about $120 annual difference or $10 a month. If price difference is $0.20/gal, then we are talking about $80/yr and $7/month. We pay $5.00 a gallon here in Canada, $5.60 a gallon for Premium. That translate into $400 per year difference for me (I drive 17K miles a year) which I still gladly pay.
Your Friendly Canadian
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,447
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From: Toronto, Ontario
the high compression engine loves the high octane.
A member has hooked up a knock monitor and observed that a mixture of 100 and 93 to make roughly about 96 octane stopped the knock in the TL.
Remember the compression is 11:1 on the TL.
Get the Highest octane that is available to you.
A member has hooked up a knock monitor and observed that a mixture of 100 and 93 to make roughly about 96 octane stopped the knock in the TL.
Remember the compression is 11:1 on the TL.
Get the Highest octane that is available to you.
And take a look at the J30 used in the 7th gen Accords. I think compression is something like 10.1 or 10.5:1. Something pretty high, but 87 is still recommended. For the most part, high compression=high octane, but not always.
I'd say get the highest octane required or recommended. I don't see any point in putting a higher octane fuel in a car that doesn't require it. My car for example, actually gets worse fuel economy on 91 than it does on 87.
You see me, I CU2
Joined: Jan 2011
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From: Toronto
This is true, its all hype and fear that the media perpetuates...but it all works out for them since I'm sure oil money pays the media outlets in some way to keep talking about it...the rich get richer and the poor get poorer
i dont think you would wanna do that...
the whole point behind the knock sensing/ timing retard that Inaccurate has been working on in finding a solution, isn't about preventing timing retard..its in fact for the very purpose to RETARD Timing when needed, a bit ahead of "oh shit there's pinging, knocking, let me retard timing and save the motor", but mainly towards forced induction applications
what you're describing with your case is the stock ECU retards timing bcs of high temps in the combustion chamber which cause detonation. All due to high intake temps, from heat soak etc..which many talk about their cars being sluggish when its very hot out.
In that scenario, if your ECU didnt retard timing, what would happen? more and more detonation, hotter combustion temps, and more detonation, until pistons crack, and you get the rest of the picture.
I believe IHC himself has done a test based on this..from what i remember he ran high octane gas (cant remember grade) but if im not wrong, he stated something along the lines that, the TL needs at least 96 octane to stop pinging in NA form.
Im sure he will chime in and add more to this, or correct my memory.
the whole point behind the knock sensing/ timing retard that Inaccurate has been working on in finding a solution, isn't about preventing timing retard..its in fact for the very purpose to RETARD Timing when needed, a bit ahead of "oh shit there's pinging, knocking, let me retard timing and save the motor", but mainly towards forced induction applications
what you're describing with your case is the stock ECU retards timing bcs of high temps in the combustion chamber which cause detonation. All due to high intake temps, from heat soak etc..which many talk about their cars being sluggish when its very hot out.
In that scenario, if your ECU didnt retard timing, what would happen? more and more detonation, hotter combustion temps, and more detonation, until pistons crack, and you get the rest of the picture.
I believe IHC himself has done a test based on this..from what i remember he ran high octane gas (cant remember grade) but if im not wrong, he stated something along the lines that, the TL needs at least 96 octane to stop pinging in NA form.
Im sure he will chime in and add more to this, or correct my memory.
I also looked up the compression of the TSX, and holy hell even HIGHER than my engine.
the 4 cylinder is 11:0:1
the 6 cylinder is 11:2:1
Use the highest available octane.
Last edited by justnspace; Mar 2, 2011 at 09:51 PM.
Higher Octane offers no performance benfit unless you have enough compression to need it. No extra HP. No extra mileage. Lots of extra money.
The only reason to use 100 Octane is if you have or suspect you have some knocking/pinging and are worried about the damage such a thing may cause if you run your car hard. In that case 1/2 91/93 Octane and 1/2 100 Octane will raise your tank to ~96 Octane which will combat or reduce pinging/knocking.
Octane is a measure of the resistance to ignite under pressure. Higher Octane = more resistant to ignition from compression (i.e. detonation).
Wiki/Google Octane.
The only reason to use 100 Octane is if you have or suspect you have some knocking/pinging and are worried about the damage such a thing may cause if you run your car hard. In that case 1/2 91/93 Octane and 1/2 100 Octane will raise your tank to ~96 Octane which will combat or reduce pinging/knocking.
Octane is a measure of the resistance to ignite under pressure. Higher Octane = more resistant to ignition from compression (i.e. detonation).
Wiki/Google Octane.
Tolulene is an ingredient in fuel system cleaners and octane boosters. It runs about 118 octane. You don't want to mix it in more than a 20% mixture.
100 unleaded won't hurt a thing on your car. It may not give you any extra power either. The TL is an octane hungry car and mine pings on 91. You will pick up some power until you get past the pinging threshold and anything higher than that is a waste. For me it was around 96 octane.
Anything leaded will kill an 02 sensor in about one tankful and it will kill all 3 cats even quicker.
100 unleaded won't hurt a thing on your car. It may not give you any extra power either. The TL is an octane hungry car and mine pings on 91. You will pick up some power until you get past the pinging threshold and anything higher than that is a waste. For me it was around 96 octane.
Anything leaded will kill an 02 sensor in about one tankful and it will kill all 3 cats even quicker.
I liked this one as well.
Octane is simply a fuel's resistance to burn. The higher the octane, the more resistant it is to burn and preignite (ie detonation). High compression motors create lots of heat, so typically they require the use of higher octane fuels to keep the fuel from detonating before a spark is applied. For street cars, "high" octane is typically considered 91 to 93 octane. Using too low an octane can cause preignition which is sensed by the knock sensor which in turn the ECU retards ignition and adds fuel to cool the combustion chamber. The end result is reduced power and fuel ecomony. Using too high an octane basically has the same ending result because the fuel is so resistant to burn. The key is to find that octane grade that works best for the car. For more late model high compression motors, you're looking at 92- to 95 octane. The only way to really know is put the car on the dyno or take it to the strip.
Op is too busy to care
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highest i can get around here is 91....i heard at race tracks you can get 99. I would love to try that once.
I also buy gas from the same place consistently...i dont know if theres any point to that other than OCD
I also buy gas from the same place consistently...i dont know if theres any point to that other than OCD
Let me help you!
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: So. Cali
The basic idea is that each concoction of cleaners will leave its own signature residue. You will need to switch cleaners to get that residue out, but the new cleaners will then leave a different residue behind.
Changing gas stations often won't help much because mixing Gas Station A and Gas Station B will make residue X (a different residue from residue A and residue B).
I think it's best to have 3 different gas station companies for best result (rather than switching back and forth between two, since that will leave trace amounts of the mixed fuels).
As for the original post regarding octane levels, wasn't the 2009 TSX plagued with engine pinging problems when the 2G was first introduced? I didn't follow the issue, but I think if the engine already has pinging issues, it would be better to stick to premium fuel.
2010 TSX w/Tech
Joined: May 2010
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You should change gas stations every 3 months or so. The fuel additives/cleaners from Gas Station A may clean your engine, but it'll leave residue A when burned. When you switch to Gas Station B, its additives will clean residue A off but leave residue B.
The basic idea is that each concoction of cleaners will leave its own signature residue. You will need to switch cleaners to get that residue out, but the new cleaners will then leave a different residue behind.
Changing gas stations often won't help much because mixing Gas Station A and Gas Station B will make residue X (a different residue from residue A and residue B).
I think it's best to have 3 different gas station companies for best result (rather than switching back and forth between two, since that will leave trace amounts of the mixed fuels).
The basic idea is that each concoction of cleaners will leave its own signature residue. You will need to switch cleaners to get that residue out, but the new cleaners will then leave a different residue behind.
Changing gas stations often won't help much because mixing Gas Station A and Gas Station B will make residue X (a different residue from residue A and residue B).
I think it's best to have 3 different gas station companies for best result (rather than switching back and forth between two, since that will leave trace amounts of the mixed fuels).
Seriously though, do you have anything to back your statment up? Everything I have read says there is very little difference between most major gas brands.
Oil companies spend lots of money explaining why their gas is better than the competition’s. Chevron’s gas, for example, is fortified with “Techron,” and Amoco Ultimate is supposed to save the planet along with your engine. But today more than ever, one gallon of gas is as good as the next.
True, additives help to clean your engine, but what the companies don’t tell you is that all gas has them. Since 1994 the government has required that detergents be added to all gasoline to help prevent fuel injectors from clogging. State and local regulators keep a close watch to make sure those standards are met; a 2005 study indicated that Florida inspectors checked 45,000 samples to ensure the state’s gas supply was up to snuff, and 99 percent of the time it was. “There’s little difference between brand-name gas and any other,” says AAA spokesperson Geoff Sundstrom.
What’s more, your local Chevron station may sell gas refined by Shell or Exxon Mobil. Suppliers share pipelines, so they all use the same fuel. And the difference between the most expensive brand-name gas and the lowliest gallon of no-brand fuel? Often just a quart of detergent added to an 8,000-gallon tanker truck.
True, additives help to clean your engine, but what the companies don’t tell you is that all gas has them. Since 1994 the government has required that detergents be added to all gasoline to help prevent fuel injectors from clogging. State and local regulators keep a close watch to make sure those standards are met; a 2005 study indicated that Florida inspectors checked 45,000 samples to ensure the state’s gas supply was up to snuff, and 99 percent of the time it was. “There’s little difference between brand-name gas and any other,” says AAA spokesperson Geoff Sundstrom.
What’s more, your local Chevron station may sell gas refined by Shell or Exxon Mobil. Suppliers share pipelines, so they all use the same fuel. And the difference between the most expensive brand-name gas and the lowliest gallon of no-brand fuel? Often just a quart of detergent added to an 8,000-gallon tanker truck.
Last edited by etzero; Mar 3, 2011 at 10:48 AM.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Vancouver, BC
Oil price is base on supply and demand, although US is one of the world's largest oil producer, it produce between 7-9 million barrels a day, but consume 20 million barrels a day. You do the math, the remaining 11 million barrels has to come from somewhere. Canada and Mexico supply 4 million barrel a day,the remaining comes from the Middle East (Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait etc ), South America-Brazil, Venezuela and Argentina etc, Africa-such as Nigeria,the UK and Russia.
Last edited by 09TSXTech; Mar 3, 2011 at 04:22 PM.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Vancouver, BC
There are Pros and Cons with Ethanol fuel, pros being it has higher octane rating than regular gasoline and its a natural cleaning agent. The cons is that it store less energy. One gallon of ethanol has 67% of store energy compare to one gallon of gasoline. Using your Ultra 94 above as an example, with 10% ethanol (E10), it has 97% of the store energy of pure gasoline. (90% gasoline + (10% ethanol x 66.66%)) gives you 97%.
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SeeYou2Crew #2
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Socal 626
This brings me back to my high school Science class
There are Pros and Cons with Ethanol fuel, pros being it has higher octane rating than regular gasoline and its a natural cleaning agent. The cons is that it store less energy. One gallon of ethanol has 67% of store energy compare to one gallon of gasoline. Using your Ultra 94 above as an example, with 10% ethanol (E10), it has 97% of the store energy of pure gasoline. (90% gasoline + (10% ethanol x 66.66%)) gives you 97%.
There are Pros and Cons with Ethanol fuel, pros being it has higher octane rating than regular gasoline and its a natural cleaning agent. The cons is that it store less energy. One gallon of ethanol has 67% of store energy compare to one gallon of gasoline. Using your Ultra 94 above as an example, with 10% ethanol (E10), it has 97% of the store energy of pure gasoline. (90% gasoline + (10% ethanol x 66.66%)) gives you 97%.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 208
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From: Toronto Canada
This brings me back to my high school Science class
There are Pros and Cons with Ethanol fuel, pros being it has higher octane rating than regular gasoline and its a natural cleaning agent. The cons is that it store less energy. One gallon of ethanol has 67% of store energy compare to one gallon of gasoline. Using your Ultra 94 above as an example, with 10% ethanol (E10), it has 97% of the store energy of pure gasoline. (90% gasoline + (10% ethanol x 66.66%)) gives you 97%.
There are Pros and Cons with Ethanol fuel, pros being it has higher octane rating than regular gasoline and its a natural cleaning agent. The cons is that it store less energy. One gallon of ethanol has 67% of store energy compare to one gallon of gasoline. Using your Ultra 94 above as an example, with 10% ethanol (E10), it has 97% of the store energy of pure gasoline. (90% gasoline + (10% ethanol x 66.66%)) gives you 97%.
will it be correct to say Shell V Power is 100% gasoline where as Ultra94 is 90% gasoline?
Thread Starter
SeeYou2Crew #2
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,574
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From: Socal 626
another interesting article about going to dealership or local mechanic for services. it also mention the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which addresses after market parts and warranty issues.
http://financiallyfit.yahoo.com/fina...waad=ad0035&nc
http://financiallyfit.yahoo.com/fina...waad=ad0035&nc