HELP! "Grinding" Noise When Starting 2012 TSX
 

Hello,

I'm hoping somebody can help me in hopes to shed some sort of light on my problem. I have a 2012 TSX Base with 86,000KM. For the past year and a half, whenever the car has been sitting off for at least 7+ hours, I go to turn it on and I get this grinding noise under the hood. Some days it can be really scary sounding and others it's just a little grind. It usually last for about half a second. It mostly started in the winter of 2015 and I thought it was just because my car sits out on the driveway and it's bloody cold (here in Canada). But then it started happening all throughout the hot summer so I knew something was up. It really doesn't affect the performance of the car as the car has been great to me for almost four years. But needless to say, any sound under the hood scares me. The car is due back in March 2017 at the end of the lease and I would like to keep it but I don't trust the noise. I brought it to Acura and they couldn't fix the problem. They don't know what it is. I'm not a car guy by any means so any help would be appreciated. Please see the link for the video >
Thanks,
MB

See following thread and weep.

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tsx-...ng-car-778169/

good luck

Whats the answer? VTC Actuator? I have scheduled maintenance with the dealer to get this fixed on mine this week under the powertrain warranty. However mine sounds a bit diff rent the the OP's.

Based on EVERYTHING i have read on this site, I would guess 85% of people's issues have been resolved by replacing the VTC Actuator. I'm looking at buying the part from here: ACTUATOR ASSY., VTC (46T) for 2012 Acura TSX SEDAN|14310-R40-A02 : Acura Parts | Genuine Acura OEM Parts | Acura Parts Cheap

I'm probably going to buy the part and look into what Acura or another mechanic shop will charge to install this. If it's a combined $500ish repair, I can live with that. Although somebody did bring up a good point. If this part is defective, are we just buying a new replacement defective part to fix the current one? I hope that's not the case. But I guess I'm willing to try it one time and see how it goes.

There must be a significant frequency of this problem, probably more for high mileage vehicles, but must not be enough to prompt Honda/Acura to fix. It is a problem on 4-cyl cars across Acura/Honda lines. It appears the part has not been updated.

You might try "bumping the startier" prior to startup. This may allow the retaining pin in the VTC actuator to seat properly. Purely speculation on my part as to benefit.

My problem has entirely disappeared after warm weather last spring and so far no cold weather to speak of in S Tx.

good luck

Cold weather is back and I'm seeing the problem more now (1 in 3 cold starts maybe).

Mr Bee I don't think you should replace the VTC actuator since the part hasn't been updated. You may temporarily fix the issue, but it will more than likely come back in the future.

I've heard the 08-12 I4 Accords (which have similar(/same?) VTC actuator as ours) have a replacement part for the VTC actuator now. Acura still lagging behind for our TSXs though...

No grind during the summer, but since the colder temps have started, so has the grind.....it's an irritant for sure, but if it can't be perma fixed, I'm living with it until ( hopefully ) spring hits again...

Good luck.....

I've had mine replaced and the noise returned only a few weeks later.

What is strange is that it has been cold here, under 40F, and I have not had the noise few the past week. I had to cancel service in fear that they would not hear it. Lets see what happens when it gets really, really cold (in the single digits).

I know there is a updated part for Honda, but Acura is not using it?

Does it consistently make the noise on every start after the car has been sitting + cold weather?

9/10 times, yes.

...so people realize not to replace the VTC actuator with the same defective part!

A brand new part still making the noise is unacceptable. You're telling me you can buy the car brand new, and it will make that noise within two weeks and Honda hasn't re-called/ fixed this? It seems like all of them will have this problem.

I had mine replaced before the part was called defective. There is a TSB that states to replace the part, so I did that. Now they say it is a defective design a couple months after I replaced it.

Edit: Mine is a 2009 as well

I dont think the TSB covers the 2012 :/

Yeah, I'm not sure. It's the same defective design from my understanding though.

I'm curious if a pre-oiler would fix the problem. I saw this mentioned in a different thread and would like to install one eventually... basically when you turn the ignition on, a valve opens on this pressurized canister and creates oil pressure in the system, thus reducing hard starts. The problem with the vtec actuator from a video explanation is that it rocks back and forth (obviously very fast) until it has enough oil pressure to stay in the correct position. Seems like if the pressure were established before starting the engine then it would never grind like it does.

Yes, a system to pressurize the VTC actuator would work, however it would be difficult and expensive to implement. Not a practical diy solution and very unlikely that Honda/Acura would add this item.

What I find hard to understand is why the 1st Gen TSX's have no problems w/ VTC actuator. Surely 1st Gen vs 2nd Gen VTC actuators are not very different. This suggests that a fix is possible.

I suspect bumping the starter may help to reseat the lock pin, but getting my wife to do this is difficult.

good luck

I know there is also a TSB for (accord I think) about replacing the starter due to a grinding noise.

Has anyone replaced the starter to see if it alleviates the issue?

Anyone with the VTC issue, when you start the car and start driving within a few seconds, do yoy hear the rattle once you are above ~1,800rpms as the cars moving? Ive noticed that as well. It doesn't last long but it's there.

I can hear some noise if I take off nearly immediately after starting it, but it sounds more like valve train as opposed to the actuator.

Personally I like to let the car sit for 30 seconds to a minute before driving off so it has a chance to build some pressure.

Dropped her off tonight to have them check it out. I really hope it replicates for them or they take my word for it. Well see.

Yay the dealer was able to replicate the noise! Getting the VTC actuator replaced under powertrain warranty :)

They said the drive belt could use to be replaced and wanted to charge $180 to do it. I said another time. How tough of a job is it to replace the belt?

Not at all.. hardest part is probably properly routing it around all the components... I bet they can do that job is 15 minutes or less..

1.https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-59000-R.../dp/B0019CQL2E tool to release tension
2. remove belt
3. reinstall belt
4. profit

If you opt for the Bando belt be sure to get the right part number. I shared that in another thread titled "PSA: " something something.

Edit: https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tsx-...e-belt-947756/

Just picked it up. Started up real nice and no noise. They replaced the spark plug and head cover gasket too. Let's hope it stays this way :)

Started up this morning with no noise in 25F weather! The RPMs jumped significantly higher than before. It used to only jump to ~1,800 rpms but now it went up to about 2,300 rpms when starting for a second. I wonder if the failing actuator was responsible for that.

PS - last thread bump a swear :)

This issue is accentuated by cold weather because cold oil is more viscous and therefore takes longer to reach the areas it has drained out of while the car sits. It is intermittent because of varying sit times and the position where the internals stop when the car is shut down.

Glad to hear the VTC replacement is fixing the issue.

I blasted this tune from the great David Wilcox the other day, quite appropriate for our collective issue. ( My baby does ) The Grind, LOL

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...0D91&FORM=VIRE

My wife reported first instance of VTC rattle w/ cold (40-50F) temps in Houston.

Has anyone heard of damage resulting from VTC rattle? I can live w/ the startup rattle, but would repair to avoid damage.

good luck

Good luck! Mine came back 4.5 months after replacing but only happens sporadically now (approx. once after every 7 starts up and more prone to pop up in damp and/or cold weather).

Taking my 2011 in on Friday to diagnose what the problem is. TSB b1-024 only covers models up to 2010. Obviously, Honda has not fixed the issue. I filed a complaint with Honda as well. If there are enough complaints, Honda may do something with it. I will let you guys know how it turns out.

My 1st gen TSX did not have this problem. When I traded it in, it had 197K on the clock. Honda doesn't seem to be as good as they were.

I'm new to this forum, but have been experiencing the same issue. I bought the car (2009 model) in July, and have no issues until now. Other people have said it only happens during cold weather, and that seems to be the case. I've had no issues with this in the summer/fall months.

Only a mechanic can say for sure, but the VTC Actuator is very common to make this noise. While it sounds scary, there is very little to worry about. I had mine replaced as it was under warranty, but I believe it costs $700+ for the dealer to perform the repair out of warranty. I do not believe it is worth it in that case.

Add me to the grinding list as well. The cold temps here in Texas lately has made it a coming occurrence. If it is not damaging anything that's cool I guess but it's so damn embarrassing. I drive a luxury sedan but starting my car sounds like a 1995 cavalier with 300k miles. It really makes me want to sell this car even though I love everything else about it.

Suggest bumping the starter to reset the VTC actuator pin. I've tried this but my VTC noise is highly irregular so difficult to tell if it does any good.

good lluck

I've been having this issue for several months if not a year myself, but as others described only when it is cold outside and the car has been sitting all day/night. It's an embarrassing noise but as it only last 2 seconds max, I'm not spending $500+ to have it fixed with the same defective part.

So after reading the rest of everybody's responses, I've decided I'm not going through wth the repair. The start up is annoying and as some have said, embarassing, but if it's not going to fix the problem in the long run, then I'm saving my money. My car is due back from lease in two months and I want to keep it but was fearing the noise. It's funny, this morning it started up with no grind in -12 C here in Canada, where other days, it sounds extremely horrible.

I guess my last question is, I want to keep it, but does this Actuator problem have the chance to further damage anything else under the hood?

I've asked this question (damage from VTC actuator noise?) w/o any responses on several forums. It is not exactly clear about the origin of the noise but here's my guess:

Noise is camshaft moving rapidly back/forth under valve spring load until oil pressure arises and locks the VTC in zero advance position. Since camshaft is moving w/I normal limits no damage should occur although there could be damage to the VTC actuator when lock pin is partially engaged and camshaft is forced to another position by spring load. Damage to lock pin seems most likely. My speculation is that no significant damage occurs since many folks have the noise but no one seems to have any related damage.

Another strange fact. The 04-06 TSX seems immune to this problem but has similar VTC actuator. What is the difference and does this suggest a fix for the later (07^ TSX's).

good luck

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Mine was replaced recently and within a few weeks the noise came right back. Not as bad as it used to be but for sure as others have stated, replacing this doesn't fix the noise.

If I'm not mistaken there is a Honda part revision for accords for our engines. In typical Acura fasion, they have not adapted this part.
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I heard mine for the first time over the weekend. That did not sound right at all.

Could you post a link where I can find information of the updated vtc part# for the Accord? I have a 2012 and I guess since it's not included in the tsb I'm gonna have to do this myself.

I did pay an arm and a leg to have the VCT replaced in December. The noise did not return over the winter.

Recently, I decided to look up past receipts and check what grade of engine oil the dealer used for oil change. To my surprise, the dealership used 5w20 instead of 0w20 as the manual recommends. Ow20 is thinner at cold temperature. I wonder if that's was the problem.

No that was not the problem. 0w and 5w are very similar. I'd be very upset about having the VTC replaced with a high out if pocket cost. As said a thousand times, it doesn't fix the problem and it still grinds when starting when cold on occasion.

Hey TexasHonda, have you continued with this suggestion? I'm curious if you have enough data points now to suggest whether this helps or not.

Thanks!

No, my actuator rattle has disappeared ( synthetic oil change?). I have no way to know if the suggestion will help.

good luck

Thanks!

I've been strictly using 0w-20 synthetic oil (blend once, but not currently), and the past couple of weeks the grind has been happening almost daily; sometimes even twice a day. Can't quite remember what I have in there right now... might be Castrol (black jug). Maybe I should do an earlier oil change and switch back to a different oil I've used previously and see if that helps.

Hello!

VTC actuator. Had this problem on a brand new TSX 09. So i think it's a flaw by design. I've replaced it once and made it on the first startup lol. Once temps get under 0c (i'm in canada) it does it from times to times. Been told by Acura it's nothing serious.

Good day!

FYI my 2014 having this issue, purchased as CPO 2 weeks ago with 56k miles.

I’m experiencing this intermittently with my 2013 TSX SE with 60,000 miles on the ODO. Only seems to be an issue when it is exceptionally cold, and when the car sits “outside” for an extended period of time (airport parking garage, most commonly). The grinding noise disappears very quickly, and only happens at first startup. Vehicle is meticulously maintained and oil is changed with Mobil 1 synthetic 0W-20 every 5000 miles. I hope no real damage is being done to the car with this!

No there is not any damage being done to the car, just sounds terrible.

How do you know this to be true?

regards

What were you using before vs now? I've always used the mobile 1 filter. Didn't hear it too much this winter.

Was directed here by TexasHonda. I just bought a 2012 wagon and have the noise as well. Didn't make the noise when I test drove it tho. I'm guessing the dealer was aware and had the car started and ready before I got there. It happens when the car is sitting for a cold startup so how couldn't they have known? They offered to fix it for me but I'd have to return to that dealership which is 5 hours away and just isn't an option for me at this point. I've been in contact with Acura customer service and after telling me to have it diagnosed at an Acura dealership they said they will be in contact with me on whether this will be covered full cost or partial cost. Bought the car with 69,942 and driving it home 5 hours away of course put me over the factory powertrain warranty. I called them to see if they would make an exception out of good faith but won't know the outcome till Wednesday.

I've also been asking my mechanic (a Honda tech) about it as well and he said he is familiar with this problem. Says the same that others have with oil leaking from the actuator and has to prime itself back up on start up. He said I should to the chain and tensioner as well but I just got off the phone with him and he said that he thought I had higher miles (120k+) which I do not. I asked if he had any success stories about these repairs and he said that they do them quite often and has done 3 this month and doesn't see a problem after it's done. He said the parts are covered up to 6 months too.

Also, a friend of mine just sold his 1st gen TSX and said he was experiencing the same problem just before he started looking for a new car. He thought it was some kind of bearing. The guy that bought it (also a Honda tech lol) said it probably needed a new tensioner etc. Probably knew it was the actuator and considering he had over 200k he probably knew the chain was stretched.

My 02 RSX had about 225k before the chain stretched so much and got a cam position code. Chain, tensioner, guides and actuator all done and she's still going.

2012 TSX Wagon with 50K dropping off tonight at the dealer for this. CPO Powertrain warranty expires next month so timing is excellent.