Acura's Dependability: Accurate?
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Likes: 2
From: Fremont, CA
Given some of the issues we've had with the 2010 TSX (rattles, noises, brakes -- see TSB list) this does not surprise me that Acura is only a hair better than industry average. What does surprise me is the extent to which Buick, Hyundai, and Cadillac have improved to be way above Honda / Acura.
That said, this JD Powers survey measures only 1 thing - initial quality, i.e. quality of assembly and build. It does NOT measure long term reliability, and I've always wished that there was some similar metric, like # defects / 100 cars 3 year old, 5 years old, 7, years old, 10+ years, etc. Or something like average maintenance costs per car at different time intervals. There is where you'll see Honda / Acura stand out relative to say the German brands.
Ben
That said, this JD Powers survey measures only 1 thing - initial quality, i.e. quality of assembly and build. It does NOT measure long term reliability, and I've always wished that there was some similar metric, like # defects / 100 cars 3 year old, 5 years old, 7, years old, 10+ years, etc. Or something like average maintenance costs per car at different time intervals. There is where you'll see Honda / Acura stand out relative to say the German brands.
Ben
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Instructor
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 141
Likes: 19
From: Las Vegas, NV
So is this saying that for every single vehicle Chrysler produced, it averaged 1.92 problems in 2012? (192 Problems reported per 100 vehicles?)
Edit: I'm very right brained, so if I'm reading the graph incorrectly blame my mental retardation.
Edit: I'm very right brained, so if I'm reading the graph incorrectly blame my mental retardation.
Last edited by On The Run; Apr 18, 2012 at 07:00 PM.
OP is dumb.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 610
Likes: 159
Benbox is right on. In addition, this survey does not capture the nature of the problems reported. For example, European cars are prone to electronic glitches of all kinds, even when new, and I would bet very few Hondas or Acuras experience these problems.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 385
Likes: 4
Over the last 20 years, I have had most all brands of cars. Yes I'm sick don't judge, I always want the new toys.
With that said they ALL have issue's, the car I had the least issues with was a Boxster. The most a VW Touareg (lemon law buy back). Mercedes R class was very good as well.
With that said they ALL have issue's, the car I had the least issues with was a Boxster. The most a VW Touareg (lemon law buy back). Mercedes R class was very good as well.
Suzuka Master
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,478
Likes: 1,279
It is funny. The German ADAC (automobile club) rates cars by breakdown statistics annually.
Oddly enough, German cars lead the pack in quality (lower incidents of breakdowns) and the Honda Civic comes in at 22. While BMW, Audi and MB are the leaders.
Oddly enough, German cars lead the pack in quality (lower incidents of breakdowns) and the Honda Civic comes in at 22. While BMW, Audi and MB are the leaders.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 424
Likes: 69
C'mon, guys. True, there are many surveys out there, but JD Powers is bar none the only one all the automotive manufacturers rely on. If their data is bad, why the heck would every single manufacturer heed so much to the study? If manufacturers find it reliable, then what reasons are there for some (or most) of you to deem it useless? Does the results hurt your feelings? Ownership pride?
Second, the resulting data has taken into account statistical outliers and anomalies, like any quality statistical tabulation should do.
Third, if someone who owns an Acura thinks an oil light is just a recommendation and consider it as a problem on a survey, what's to say that statistically speaking per 100 vehicle owners, there isn't about the same rate of ignorant owners of other manufacturers who behave the same, thereby making the data between manufacturers' score reliable?
I think there is a gross misunderstanding of what these JD Powers rankings mean. The 3 different ones relating to automotive industry:
I simply just don't understand why so many people call their studies BS when every auto manufacturer rely heavily on the results. I'll grant you that the IQS is more likely to be subjective because owners are still in their new purchase high, but for the VDS, the honeymoon's over, regardless of what make their car is.
Please don't confuse other proprietary JD Powers studies paid for by each individual manufacturer for a specific survey. Those results are not published by JD Powers, and the data points are not standardized by JD Powers. Such a survey may be about your dealer where you bought your car, or about service departments. The big 3, (IQS, VDS and APEAL) are the automotive industry's gold standard.
Bottom line: Check your emotions at the door, and take an objective view as to how and why the scores are the way they are. If the data is truly crap, then at least one manufacturer will declare it so. Yet, they treat such information as gold and truth to the point where some CEOs use low scoring results as motivation for their VPs and directors to shape up or leave.
Second, the resulting data has taken into account statistical outliers and anomalies, like any quality statistical tabulation should do.
Third, if someone who owns an Acura thinks an oil light is just a recommendation and consider it as a problem on a survey, what's to say that statistically speaking per 100 vehicle owners, there isn't about the same rate of ignorant owners of other manufacturers who behave the same, thereby making the data between manufacturers' score reliable?
I think there is a gross misunderstanding of what these JD Powers rankings mean. The 3 different ones relating to automotive industry:
- IQS (Initial Quality Study) – measures new-vehicle quality at 90 days of ownership. Used as a predictor of long term dependability.
- VDS (Vehicle Dependability Study) – measures problems experienced during the past 12 months by original owners of three-year-old vehicles. Used to help design and build better vehicles.
- APEAL (Automotive Performance, Execution & Layout Study) – measures how gratifying a new vehicle is to own and drive at 90 days of ownership.
I simply just don't understand why so many people call their studies BS when every auto manufacturer rely heavily on the results. I'll grant you that the IQS is more likely to be subjective because owners are still in their new purchase high, but for the VDS, the honeymoon's over, regardless of what make their car is.
Please don't confuse other proprietary JD Powers studies paid for by each individual manufacturer for a specific survey. Those results are not published by JD Powers, and the data points are not standardized by JD Powers. Such a survey may be about your dealer where you bought your car, or about service departments. The big 3, (IQS, VDS and APEAL) are the automotive industry's gold standard.
Bottom line: Check your emotions at the door, and take an objective view as to how and why the scores are the way they are. If the data is truly crap, then at least one manufacturer will declare it so. Yet, they treat such information as gold and truth to the point where some CEOs use low scoring results as motivation for their VPs and directors to shape up or leave.
Last edited by nothome17; Apr 19, 2012 at 09:33 PM.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Likes: 85
From: Calgary, AB
I wonder what Honda makes of JD Power saying they are worse than Ford, Buick and Hyundai, and barely better than Chevrolet - make excuses or what? How comes Kia is so far lower than Hyundai btw? Just about the same cars. All these surveys are just shit. Honda surveys its customers about dealer experience, and following recommendations from JD Power, unless the customer gives a score of 10 out of 10, then the score is rated a zero. So everyone subjected to this clap-trap has to spend their time coaching customers to give a ten. Completely pointless. A different thing for sure, but just indicates that JD Power hasn't a clue and its overall methodology is flawed.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Likes: 85
From: Calgary, AB
Further to my previous post about what 5hit JD Power spews forth, I hust stumbled across a recent Consumer Reports reliability report (not that I rate their credibility beyond reproach either) but it completely contradicts what JD Power says. I mean completely. Their conclusions in many cases are tyhe opposite.
"In recent years, Ford has been a model of American reliability. The brand ranked 10th in our predicted reliability ranking last year and competed well with Japanese makes. This year, however, the Ford brand has slipped 10 spots, to 20th out of 28 makes. That was the biggest drop for any major nameplate, according to our 2011 Annual Auto Survey, which is based on subscribers' experiences with 1.3 million vehicles.
What changed? Three new or redesigned models-the Explorer, Fiesta, and Focus-had below-average reliability in their first year. We have often found that new or revamped models have more problems in their first year than in subsequent model years. Ford's problems underscore our advice to hold off buying a new car in its first year.
Other highlights from our survey:
As Ford's star has fallen, Chrysler's has risen. Jeep has moved up seven spots to become the most reliable domestic brand, and all its models for which we have sufficient data scored average in predicted reliability. Chrysler and Dodge moved up 12 and three spots in ranking, respectively.
Japanese brands dominate our survey's upper echelons and took the top nine spots. They were led by Scion, Lexus, Acura, Mazda, Honda, and Toyota.
Jaguar, Porsche, and Audi are at the bottom among brands for which we have sufficient data."
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...y-findings.htm
How can the consumer make any sense of this.
"In recent years, Ford has been a model of American reliability. The brand ranked 10th in our predicted reliability ranking last year and competed well with Japanese makes. This year, however, the Ford brand has slipped 10 spots, to 20th out of 28 makes. That was the biggest drop for any major nameplate, according to our 2011 Annual Auto Survey, which is based on subscribers' experiences with 1.3 million vehicles.
What changed? Three new or redesigned models-the Explorer, Fiesta, and Focus-had below-average reliability in their first year. We have often found that new or revamped models have more problems in their first year than in subsequent model years. Ford's problems underscore our advice to hold off buying a new car in its first year.
Other highlights from our survey:
As Ford's star has fallen, Chrysler's has risen. Jeep has moved up seven spots to become the most reliable domestic brand, and all its models for which we have sufficient data scored average in predicted reliability. Chrysler and Dodge moved up 12 and three spots in ranking, respectively.
Japanese brands dominate our survey's upper echelons and took the top nine spots. They were led by Scion, Lexus, Acura, Mazda, Honda, and Toyota.
Jaguar, Porsche, and Audi are at the bottom among brands for which we have sufficient data."
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...y-findings.htm
How can the consumer make any sense of this.
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