derrick

Hey,

After all that research I did over all-season VS winter tires, I went with an all-season tire that has the severe service emblem (ie snowflake = winter tire) After a couple of recommendations in favor of Nokian Tires from a few Canadian A-TL members, I took the plunge and drove over to Owosso, Michigan to have them mounted and installed on my OEM Type-S rims.

Mind you, there will be a 215/50/17 size, but I would have to wait a month for them to be shipped from Finland. Since winter is around the corner, I took no chances and installed 205/50/17 (1.54% smaller than OEM size ... not significant) It's a 93 XL load, V-speed rated tire, so I have the same spec as the stock Michelin tire.

After my 150km (90 mile) drive back to Canada, I have to say that these tires are a bit quieter as my OEM Michelins after 60000km. The people at Tire Factory in Owosso were really cool and let me check out the whole process (I stood beside the tire balance to see what they're doing, etc). Aside: I would have no problems going back again or recommending anyone go to their chain of stores. No problems balancing the tires. They drove straight and true. What surprised me is that after that distance (driving at 80mph or 125-130km/h) -- all the spikes were still on the tires!

Based upon what I read about these tires, I should get good life out of them. They are siped all the way through -- so more winter tire properties from them. And according to Nokian -- "... the only four-season family of tires that carries the Severe Service Emblem exceeding new government snow condition regulations". Means that I don't have to change these tires in the summer if I don't want to. (But I have Volks/Toyos ... so I'll use these tires only for winter).

Haven't really tested it's grip potential. Like I said, only 150km on them. Waiting for the first snow to see what these guys can do. Thanks to all who helped me make the tire decision. If you want to compare prices, I paid US$740 (C$888) for tires / mount / balance / old tire disposal / all taxes. Fair price, IMHO. Works out to US$185 (C$222) a tire.

[edit] -- just checked the bill ... it was US$160/tire before taxes.

I'll post an update when more miles logged.

Street Spirit

Congrats on the Nokians, Derrick!
I know they are sort of 'all season' tires that should do very well once winter throws its first snow --- so I can't wait to hear your impressions of the tires then! You'll get a much better idea of how they are over the next few months (compared to nice, clean, dry roads!) :P Enjoy 'em!

I'm throwing on my snows Saturday :'( No need to just *quite* yet, but I might as well beat the rush that usually lines up just after the first snowfall. I hate putting them on until I really need to. This feels a bit early to me....usually wait until the temps are consistently pretty cold and there are a few days of light dusting.

Hey!!! Maybe there won't really be a winter this year!!!!!

derrick

Well,

The main reason for me to put them on today ... my only day off before driving up to Toronto at the end of the month (yes, Sundays included). Have to work all these days to pay for those tires (ouch!) I couldn't chance driving on the OEM Michelins with 4/32" left of tread. Volks have to be washed before I store them for the winter ... (sigh)

derrick

OK ... update after getting 20cm of snow. I have to say these tires work quite well in this application. Mind you, despite having the 'snowflake' on the side (severe service emblem), it's not going to cut through snow like a true 'dedicated' snow tire. Performance-wise, I was a bit underwhelmed on how well it cut through the snow. However, it was quite predictable when it was going to cut loose / VSA was going to kick in. Braking was solid. Compared to OEM Michelins, these tires grip the road/snow well such that the ABS does not kick in nearly as quickly (or as often). I feel good that I made this decision.

Road-noise: quiet for such an aggressive / deep tread design. When you run over painted lines, you will hear a hum (due to siping?) but that's nothing alarming.

Wear: I've only put on 3000km on these tires so we'll see how they will last in the spring. Doing a road trip to Toronto right after Christmas (800km round trip). Already did one trip and it handled great on dry, clear roads. We'll see if there's anything left of this mess of a winter storm.

Edward'TLS

Derrick, why don't you go for the 225/50/17. It is wider and will recover some of the performance loss with snow tires over summer tires, especially with the Type-S. Since it is taller, it will help filling up the ugly wheel gap in the wheel wells.

When I bought my snow tires a couple of years ago, there was no high-performance 215/50/17 snow available. So I settled for 225/50/17, and the width snow tires really help performance when driven on dry roads.

Street Spirit

Actually, the WIDER the tire in terms of SNOWS -------> the WORSE the performance on snow and ice! Always try to keep a narrow tire for winter.

Edward'TLS

When Derrick picked his V-speed rated snow tires for his Type-S, he was obviously looking for performance. While narrower tires are better in the snow, unless one is driving in a snowbound region all winter long, they are absolute losers when driven in the dry. This defeats the purpose of buying high speed-rated tires. Even in the same width as a summer tire, the performance of a snow tire is already a few steps below the summer tire when driven on dry roads. If the snow tire is even narrower, performance suffers even further. Besides less traction and hugh loss in performance, the softer narrower snow tires also wear out faster.

derrick

You know Edward, I used the most basic train of thought when deciding upon tires. I wanted to go as close to OEM Michelin spec (215/50/17 tires that were V-rated, 93XL load) and ended up with the Nokians. I know in my review of other tires in this forum, I could have gone with other tires, but the quality and reputation of Nokian tires persuaded me to go with the WR, despite it being only 205/50/17.

I realize getting the Nokian WR in 205/50/17 is overkill in my application (could have gone with Dunlop M3 or Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50, Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 or Dunlop Graspic DS2, to name a few) but at least the WR are 'all-season' with a 400 treadwear rating so I don't necessarily have to get them changed when the weather warms up. Plus, I was under the impression that you want a small footprint tire in the snow for greater traction (eg more force per unit area of contract tread).

The place I bought the WRs from had to wait a month (close to X-mas) to get their shipment of H-rated WR in 215/50/17. But I wanted to make sure I could survive in case of a freak snowstorm. (My Michelins are about 4/32" left)

So ... call me lazy.

derrick

Update from last winter ... I logged about 10000km (6000 miles) on those tires last winter. We received a record amount of snowfall in this area ... about 172cm (68"). I know that's not a lot compared to the snowbelt areas but it's a lot here! Thank goodness I got new tires!

Like I said before -- this is an all-season tire. It handled better than the OEM Michelins for sure. I could drive through deep snow, slush and mixed whatever with little to no problems. The drives up to Toronto on the 401 were never a concern for me. Even snow covered, I could hit 120km/h (75mph) and no problems about safety. Don't get me wrong -- you have to drive to suit the conditions, just that you have a newfound confidence once you know the limits of the tires.

The tires are quiet for such an aggresive tread and these tires were comfortable (not bone-jarring). Now that I have a new suspension setup this winter (Koni + Tein), I'll update this thread after I've driven on them for a while. Treadwear is minimal ... lots of tread left and the siping on the tires go all the way to the bottom. I hope I don't have such inclimate weather this upcoming winter.

I don't foresee myself switching rims until late Nov / early Dec so even in light snow, my Volk / Toyo Proxies4 should be OK if it decides to lightly snow.