Hello, I have a 1999 TL and have a vibration like many people do on here. I have tried to fix the prob for months. I bought this car new in 99 so I know its never been wrecked, curbed, or abused. I do 99% of my own work, I do swaps, trans, wiring, welding, etc.. I am NOT a novice. I am feeling like a 'child novice' now though.... The feel of the vibration is EXACTLY like a front warped rotor. NOT a rotor warped though. I have been experiencing this vibration for about 10k now so I have had time to work on this thing without luck. It comes from hitting the brakes ONLY and happens at ANY speed, the faster I go, the more it shakes. The steering wheel shakes, NO brake pulse. The passengers can feel the shake also. Here is my list I have done so far for a fix with no luck. NEW rotors and pads. NOT junk parts. I thought I MIGHT have had a rare exception to a defective rotor so I replaced them ALL again under warranty within a few days. No luck......... moving along, I have had the tires balanced and and a 4 wheel alignment. NO luck.... NEW Michelin OEM size tires..... NO luck.... front calipers.... no luck. Front wheel bearing(s) and BOTH axles... no luck.. steering rack.. no luck, want me to keep going??? 4 oem struts.. one more alignment and tire balance again(buddy works @ local tire shop). I have already checked the engine mounts and trans. NOTE: My car has 204k(very high) on it and runs and looks PERFECT. I have kept everything like new on it. It is all stock except for a cd changer from a 02 and a baby seat. I drive 95% highway and do not drive it hard. (origional trans and engine) Here is what is frusterating me. NONE of the parts I replaced changed the vib, it has not gotten better, or worse from changes. I have spent $ to replace good parts. ANYONE with a solution please help. It is slowly getting worse with driving time. Im about to drop this off @ the junkpit if I dont find a fix..... _____________________

 

I'm having the same problem and all the same shit was fix also.... I have the same question too. Anyone?

 

well since its only while braking, i'm gonna take a guess it's your rotors...i read your whole post, but i think you should maybe get them turned and see how that goes. they just might not be perfect and need to be shaved a lil. well, good luck with that since you've already tried everything.

 

Have you tried changing your rims?

New tires + bents rims = shaking

 

since it only comes while braking im going to say its most likely in the brake system. it could be the rotors even though new. Have you had them checked for true? or turned?, next step i would say possibly in the master cyl. it could be causing it.it may be going bad and not keeping a constant pressure. lastly it may be something in the abs system causing it to pulse.

You may actually need to bring it in and have some of those systems tested.

 

Hunter Roadforce Balancing?

Although I dunno how much that will help since it is during braking.

 

Yeah, I FINALLY had the dealer check the car out about 2 months ago. They said rotors. Since then is when I had them checked on the lath to be trued out. They checked out perfectly fine. I mentioned that I replaced all 4 rotors two times? I had my buddy at the tire shop take them off the same day I had it at the dealer. I never had the first set checked, but I am pas those now. The master cylinder or abs? Hmmm... I might check into that MORE but when I had it @ the dealership and mentioned it, they said it couldn't be that. I can try rebuilding the master and just pulled the abs fuse with no luck. I took the vaccum off the brakes to eliminate and auir pulses and made them manual like old cars and it still vibs but w/ much more brake pedal, so that eliminates the brake booster. Any other ideas? I need someone that has had this problem and has been lucky with a fix. Oh, AND I have tried a set of my buddys aftermarket newer WHEELS that dont shake on his CL. I have also had my oem's checked for trueness w/o tires mounted. This is why Im so frusterated. I have taken these steps.. I have had a year to screw around w/ it. Thanks for the help guys so far.. I balding over it

 

You might want to check for a worn tie rod or ball joint.

 

that is what I was going to suggest. I hear they tend to go on these cars.

Also, to rule out the ABS, is there a fuze that can be removed that will disable it?
I doubt it could be the ABS since it works passively, but I dont know too much about it and so ya never know.

 

After rereading you state there is no brake pulse? If thats so its probably not brakes.
a worn ball joint or tie rod could be causing it like Dare IL said. Have they been looked at or inspected?

 

I have the same problem with 2000 Acura TL shaking when braking. A google search points to rotors which have already been tried by original poster. Another possibility according to Cartalk is a seized universal joint. This needs to flex when braking and if it can't, car will shake.

http://www.cartalk.com/content/puzzl...17/answer.html

I haven't tried fixing rotors, so I think I'll try that first.

My parking brake was left on a couple of times which made the car start to shake while driving until parking brake released. This may have damaged my rotor. I don't know which rotor(s) are impacted by parking brake. I used to drive a 90 Taurus that automatically disengaged parking brake. It would be nice if more cars had this feature.

If you resolve issue, please post solution.

 

You should grease, the caliper pins. It prob isnt sliding properly, that could be causin the vibrating.... I dunno its a opinion.... They could b lockin up on u. Cause u said when u apply the brakes....

 

If your getting oscillations in the steering wheel under braking then it's your front rotors.. they were assembled wrong. something is wrong on the installation part of it..

plus honda recommends resurfacing a brand new rotor before installing on the car. Were the caliper holders lubed along with the pads and the caliper pins? If not, that could cause severe heating.

im 100% positive.

 

 

Or It Can Be Ure Rotor Screws... Lol An Option...... I Talked About It In A Previous Thread...

 

The screws that hold the rotors on wont cause that

 

you bet your ass it will.

 

It wont huh? explain how ive been vibration free for over 130k now on the TL without them???

 

when i had vibration in my TL, the CV joints had gone bad. covered by warranty.

 

your either lucky, or you cant tell that there's a vibration. only 2 choices..haha

 

the cv joints going "bad", they were not under braking conditions..if cv joints had gone "bad" then you would have had a vibration under normal driving conditions. Not braking.

 

Im so intune with my car i can tell you when the plastic bumper expands and contracts from temp No vibrations, never had tehm in honda cars due to those screws being gone.

 

hi all,

my first post here. about to pick up a tl-s from a friend for my daily driver. didn't plan on this as my initial greeting post, but i felt this was going in the wrong direction...

as to the vibration while braking, if its not the rotors, then it could be one of the following or a combination of the following:
- control arm bushings
- sway bar end links
- cv joints

and since this is a fwd car, the u-joints are in question too, but highly unlikely as they are built to last longer then the bushings...

this is also a very common occurence in the bmw x5 models. the front lower wishbone control arm bushings wear out and you get a vibration under braking that is not caused by rotors.

loud_whispers,

as to your comment about rotor retaining screws, can you please explain how the rotor could wobble under braking while the wheel lugs are bolted in and torqued down? that is, the lugs go through the wheel, through the rotor hat (or bell if you are a brake person) and mount firmly to the hub, thereby squeezing the rotor hat and the wheel center firmly to the hub.

in all the racing and test and tune/open lapping days we do at the track, i've yet to see a rotor without a retaining screw wobble under braking and we abuse our brake systems probably more then anyone here can imagine...

even at the 24 hours of daytona, or 25 hrs of thunderhill, all rotors without retaining screws performed just like the ones with retaining screws... and thats more abuse then any one on any street car will ever be able to do. granted, these are not on acura cars, but porsche, bmw, and DP's but the engineering concept and execution is the same (and many other car models that we go through)...

 

Can you explain why a spec of RUST on the hub can cause a rotor to "wobble" even with the lugs torqued? That's the way Honda made the brake discs, to reduce as much runout as possible.

We have stationary rotors, not floating. Most cars come with a floating rotor which do not use rotor screws because that's how they were designed. Honda thought different and decided less the runout less the braking problems felt that runout will cause.

As you see on the brake disc, the rotor screw holes are DOWELED. That's made for the rotor to STAY STATIONARY in it's correct balance with the hub to avoid unwanted "wobble".

 

Cv joints are a very very very rare case.. If a cv joint dryed up and seized, you'd be complaining of WAY MORE than a brake pulsation. Swaybar end links, again..they clunk and have not much to do with the braking system.. you will not feel it in the pedal.

Control arm bushings are fine on our cars..only thing questionable could be a lower ball joint which could be mistaken for a brake pulsation when in reality it's a constant vibration..but than again, will vibrate while you brake. Lower ball joints do not dry up, they are usually fine unless you have a HACK replacing your transmission. Also a bent wheel could be mistaken for a brake pulsation when in reality it would be a constant vibration, just unknowingly.

And Hayaku? which U-joints would you be referring to?

we have a steering wheel u-joint? I think your thinking of a REAR WHEEL DRIVE vehicle with a driveshaft?

 

if you haven't noticed, floating rotors have hats that are bolted to the hubs same as floating rotors.

if you have enough rust deposit, it causes the surface to NOT be flat and the hat/wheel is mounted at an angle to the hub.

the dowels are only there to position the hat onto the hub so that the screw holes line up.

btw, you haven't answered the question of how a rotor with no retaining screw under properly mounted wheels and torqued lugs can wobble. and honda doesn't make the rotors, they outsource them

 

first off, how would you know the rotor is even sitting in the right position at all if theres no rotor screws securing it to the hub? Your putting the wheel on and say the hole in the rotor gets stuck on the wheel stud? You then continue to torque the wheels down. What happens then?

now your rotor is sitting half cock eyed with the lug nut on half way and half the stud stripped out.


Why are you arguing with me?
I really don't care what you think. Im just telling you because im being nice. Don't read what i have to say if you dont like it. I am trained from Honda, your not. I have certifications to prove i know more about cars then you do. why argue?

I did not say rotor retatining screws are vital.. they can technically cause a pulsation or oscillation. I've seen and diagnosed these problems before because some hotshots like yourself think they're cool by doing they're own brakes and come to my shop for a pulsation or other brake noises. Rotor screws should be on the car technically. They are doweled to the hub and they come with the car..2 reasons you should tell yourself, man, this must be here for an important reason.

Now shut the hell up about this, im through arguing about this topic on THIS THREAD and the OTHER thread.. You people DO WHAT YOU WANT, i just tell you the technical way of thinking. The way people who KNOW HOW TO FIX CARS think.

yeah, Honda outsources and approves the quality.

 

the rotor doesn't have much room to move as the caliper and pads are keeping it pretty much in place... when you put the wheel on, a competent person finger threads the lugs/nuts on first... we would know if the wheel is at an angle or not... a dumb tech would blast the lugs/nuts on with a air impact gun and cross thread without knowing. and forget about asking them to use a torque wrench... air gun is their answer to everything...

like i've stated, we've proven this day in, day out on the race track under extreme conditions which the hardest driven street car would never see the level of abuse we put on it. on the race cars, we rebuild pretty much everything every week or two so a compromise is taken on putting the wheels on as quick as possible to get back into the race.

you stated something wrong. i'm correcting you. i am not trained from honda, but rather i have a REAL RACE ENGINEERING background, with emphasis on chassis tuning. i don't expect factory techs to understand much as they are trained to follow the instructions and TSB's that i advise on or my counterparts write (yes i know engineers in honda/acura that write the material you are given for training and updated manuals). i would imagine your instructors would say i am more qualified then you are. stop assuming you know everything or even who you are talking to.

i know the reason why they are there and its not what you are insisting it is.

why are you so defensive? as a tech, you are expected to be professional. you have yet to exhibit one once of decorum and your technical advise is extremely questionable. as a customer of acura, i would be afraid to have you as a tech. i imagine that quite a bit of floridian forum members are already wondering which dealership you work at to stay away from in order to avoid you...

 

oh my god, just leave it dude, i did not read your post..
i will not read it, i refuse. Go back to answering phones at blockbuster..
i have a 12.9% customer comeback rate which is in the 90th percentile of techs around the country. I do know what im talking about and my credentials prove it.
Go stuff yourself.

 

oops i read part of the last paragraph..

i am professional..but to you im not so shove it..im just a grease monkey right?

how about i'll stick to fixing the cars,
you stick to driving them?

sound fair?

 

Rotflmao

 

ya know what... i don't believe you are a certified tech anymore.. LOL...

 

When this same thing happened on my '00 TL, the problem turned out to be the upper ball joint. Everybody who looked at it swore it was a warped rotor except the one guy who actually checked for play in the joint. Took it back to the the dealer and they confirmed the diagnosis (after spending some time convincing them to actually look).

 

I have a 99 TL. Bought it new. My first experience with what I call the “warped rotor syndrome” happened at about 5000 miles. The dealer changed all 4 rotors. About 9000 miles it happened again. They turned the front rotors. About 35000 it happens again. Another dealer replaced the front rotors and pads. At approximately 55000 it reoccurred. I took it back to the dealer but they wanted to charge me about 500.00 for parts and labor to replace the rotors and pads on the front. I said no thinks and ordered 2 new rotors and ceramic pads on the Internet. Replaced them, including the much-debated screws. About 85000 miles hear we go again. Until I changed the rotors and pads I always let the “Factory trained experts” work on this problem. As you can my repair lasted longer than any of the experts work. Not once did any one mention that there might be another cause. However I highly doubt that the problem is with any of the suspension parts since this problem started long before that ball joints etc would have worn out, and disappears every time the front rotors are replace or turned. I am not hard on breaks as I have an 87 Honda with almost 200000 and have never had a problem like this. I always use a torque wrench to tighten the lug nuts. Maybe this problem is related to heat or jus design I don’t know. As I stated above the problem does go away for a while after the rotors are turned or replaced.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

when you relaced the rotors did you clean the hub it bolts onto of all the dirt and corrosion because that can also cause your problem ...if not lousy jobber rotors

 

loud_whispers was nice enough to give us the info that at least works on his experience . His info may be wrong to hayaku but right to others, so that is really a personal issue. THERE IS NO POINT TO ARGUE with loud_whispers, as he stated "if you don't like it, don't read it". I would definitely take my car to the dealer where he works at, at least he knows what hes talking about and what hes doing. Most tech at acura dealers are so dump or just playing smart a$$ to rip off customers money, or use your car for exsperiment. My

Cerifified is just a paper and doesn't mean anything if you don't know how to fix the problem. Some of us on this forum are not certified and they can work on their cars just fine.

tell me you didn't read his posts.

loud_whispers

 

Example situation: I have a 1991 Acura Legend LS. It has the two rotor retaining screws. A close friend of mine has a 1990 Jeep Cherokee. Pretty much the only thing holding the rotors on are the calipers/pads and the wheels. Neither of the cars have vibration problems. The screws just make your life easier when you're replacing the pads/calipers....after all, if they're not there, the rotor literally falls off when you pull the caliper. How do I know this? Did my friend's brakes on his Jeep. When we pulled the caliper to get the the pads, the rotor pretty much fell right off.

There you go. I don't have any certifications, very little engineering background, and pretty much work on cars in my spare time. But from what I've seen, those two screws only hold it in place when the calipers are off. Certainly convenient if you're just doing a brake pad job and don't want the rotor flying off, but they're not necessary by any stretch of the imagination, don't improve any handling or vibration, and you're not hurt at all by not having them there....heck, my car doesn't have those screws, and I've never had braking vibration problems.

As for the original question, I'd go ahead and check wheel bearings just for kicks and giggles (maybe the slight pitch puts enough stress on them to cause the vibrations). You never know when something that may seem unrelated can cause an issue.

 

hey did you ever resolve this issue, i have the same thing i stumpped as to what it can be

 

[URL=http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml]

Go to the above site and read this. I have a 99 TL and it had vibration problems from the get go. I have two sets of rotors. Acura replaced all of the rotors once and turned them a couple of times. Each time they would be ok for 5 to 15K, and then they would start vibrating when the breaks were applied. Some time they would vibrate worse than other times. I finally bought a new set of rotors at about 55K. I had the ones that I took off the car turned in case I needed to replace them again. The shop that turned them said that they only roughed the surface, as they weren’t warped. After reading the article at the above site I believe that the rotors do not warp. I also replaced the pads with ceramic pads. I have not had any more vibration problems and I have over 108K miles on the car.

 

oh yeah , i had the same probelm as yours, just go to anyshop (autozone or bodyshop) , and tell them that u having that issue , then they gone take the two front disc(brake) out and sharp them up until it straight . then they gone change new pads. Thats all, if u can do at home , please do hahha , good luck