Hi everyone I'm Having some problems with fuel economy with my 99 tl im getting about 350-400KM a tank on premium fuel!

 

car year, miles/kms, spark plug age, engine air filter condition, seafoam or bk or similar
Clean TB air plate, ck tire pressures, drive under 4000 rpm~

Battery condition and terminals clean (have radio security code before disconnecting neg cable

some details will help us point you to any possible problems

 

is this a sudden drop in economy or the car is recent to you??

 

The battery terminals can decrease mileage if dirty? I didn't know that. I'll have to clean mine tomorrow, as they are pretty bad. The dealer wanted to replace the cables for $200. However, I read on Acura.com that soaking them in water and baking soda should clean them. Any thoughts on this?

 

HAHA $200 for battery Cables!!! what a hoot and rip=off!

 

battery crud on the cable ends --the blue and white stuff- DANGER dont touch it!!

warm water and baking soda (warm to dissolve the power) will nuetralize the ACID you see!!!
then rinse well with clean water
get all that off before removing cables from battery

KNOW your radio code before disconnect of battery!!! you will need it

reminder its remove NEG cable from batt, then pos-
install POS,, THEN neg
this avoids you becoming the shortest path to ground- also known as the ~backwards flying human~ (guess how I know)

to clean - use sandpaper or proper $2 tool- on battery terminals and inside the cable clamp end
rough shiny is fine- makes better electrical contact to each other

Bad contact, especially ground at batt or ground wires along the car- can cause running problems
The ECU operates on electronic signals,,weak signal = poor running
You can even improve gas mileage in some cases!- faster starting etc

If the cables have crud growing down inside them, its time for new ones
10 years seems reasonable to me
While I dont know the actual labor involved Im guessing dealer gets 1- 1.5 hours plus 50 for the cables

try your parts place for some good ones, at least as thick as stock, maybe the next guage/lower number ground if you run an amp or extra front lighting etc

there are kits and diy's to link several points on the engine to a master ground point- that improves things a tick as well

So yes- ground is important, and pos battery lead carries the juice to starter directly

 

yes the car was recently purchased, spark plugs airfilter, oil changes tranny flush, basically tune up was performed also i added some seafoam to the gas tank and other half threw the vaccume lines, now its an old car so after adding and connecting the line back in waited 10 min and started the car but supprisingly NO CARBON came out from the exhaust :S

 

NO smoke show did i do something wrong?

 

Tune up? Correct spark plugs?

 

spark plugs being a big concern- what did you use,, NGK Iridium or NGK Platinum are the approved ones
bosch an acdelco will make the car run bad
denso approved but cost more and last fewer miles

seafoam in vac port requires a good engine warmup-15 minute drive
sip sip sip adding of foam and a good afterdrive to create heat--thats what makes the smoke- heat and oils from seafoam = smoke out tailpipe

noobs should repeat foam after a month, then good for a year
try a can in just under half tank
repeat master vac port 1/2 can- see diy
clean and lube throttle cables and return spring, and clean TB air plate while in there

 

Yes i wanted to put the Iridium, but my mechanic put in the platinums and yes i drove it on the highway before and after the seafoam. Right now im just under half tank and i've got 200KM with seafoam inserted before this fill up, seafoam was put in when near empty. also the diy for seafoam isnt very helpful need more pics is there a betterone anywhere? Thanks alot for the help guys

 

Also i was looking up some threads, and i wanted to add that i am getting a ticking sound and people say its a bad purge valve but that's located under the hood where as my ticking sound seems like its coming from under the car underneath the rear seats

 

bunch of BS shade tree mechanic horse crap, once the car is started the electrical is supplied by the alternator and the battery has nothing to do with it.

The only issue corroided cables can cause is a had start. slow cranking issue and will not and cannot effect gas milage or engine perfomance unless the alternator is missing the belt or has failed causing the motor to run on the battery only for the electrical needs.

 

the car always runs off the battery and the alt replaces whats being drawn from it
If the batt dies on a road trip, the alt will still keep putting out power- enough to run the car,,barely,,but will get you to safety

In that process the alt will be overused past its spec design and may burn itself out- just trying so hard to do a job its not made for

Bad grounds cause bad running at all times and hard starting
With a super electronic car like ours- its all signals from sensors-and signal strength is related to ground wires!!
There are several small ground leads besides the main batt ground,
remove and sandpaper/wire wheel on drill them,, clean the ends and the contact area, retighten and done

Seafoam add 1 can to just under half tank, approx 8 gallons, so its at `cleaning dose` of 2oz per gal of fuel
a can in full tank- is slightly less than the midyear/5k miles maitenance dose for good measure at 1 oz per gal (tank holds 17.3)

do full can to 8 gal and see results- do it twice for full system cleaning

not a half can to 1/4 tank, you want some product, some time, and good heat to make it work the best.
drives of more than 30 minutes are most effective

 

ngk platinum are fine- they came stock in the car
iridium is a better metal so most of us went to it
It used to be only airplanes and race car plugs had it- advances in mining technology brought the price down enough for the street driver- now you see every maker has them available

 

We never had a shade tree in the shop~

 

YOU DON'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE HOW A FUCKING ALTERNATOR WORKS AND THE FUCKING CHARGING/ELECTRICAL SYSTEM WORKS ON A MODERN AUTOMOTIVE ENGINE.

The voltage regulator internal to the alternator regulates the amount of voltage that goes to the battery to charge it, after the battery has reach a full charge state it stops sending voltage to the battery. The battery is for running the Cranking Motor to start the Engine and for emergency's if the alterntor fails while the Engine is running allowing the engine to run untill the battery is drained of voltage or the car is turned off.

YOU"RE a long winded IDIOT spitting out shit that isn't true. go back to telling the fools to flush the brake fluid out, that's another one of your famous bullshit SHADE TREE quotes.

 

Thanks for the help 01tl but i have to go with rcb000 with the battery thing.

 

here we go with another my fuel is horrible thread there are least 10 of these this month.. there should be a sticky with all the that could be causing people to get horrible gas mileage

 

It's a pretty short list of items

lead foot
winter weather city driving
dirty air filter
old spark plugs
clogged fuel filter
vaccum leaks
carbon build-up in induction system
valve adjustment/timing belt

these all assume the engine appears to run smooth and normal in operation. If there is an obvious miss then you can have a bad coil, bad injectors or fuel system related issu like the fuel pump, pressure regulator, a leaky fuel rail and some other uncommon problem where a skill mechanic is required to diagnois the issue.

 

yes it is a short list but most continue on starting a new thread about thats why I said it should just be a sticky..

if you have bad gas mileage click here or something and have the small list of items what may be the problem, kuz I bet if most people saw this list they would go look at there cars and see one of those is most likely the problem but thats just my opinion

 

we dont have a normal fuel filter- its just a sock on the fuel pickup in the gas tank
Not a normal replacement item on the TL
quality fuel cleaner like bg44 redline or seafoam, used at max allowed doseage is a good plan- in my opinion

the voltage regulator whether internal to the alt. (modern) or external mounted on the fenderwell (old school)
does indeed cut off the the flow of juice from alt to the battery-- as batt is at full

Then as the car continues to use up/draw battery power to run lights, stereo, power accessories, multiple system sensors, fuel injection etc etc-
the regulator opens to allow power flow again from alt to batt, to maintain a full state of charge on the battery

Cars run off the batt for a constant supply of power- the alt changes output with rpm changes- so its job is to recharge the stable source

Anyone who can read can look up hygroscopic
then run to the store buying brake fluid etc..
others may consider that a WASTE of their time

 

UPDATE: I ran my car to my friends shop today and had him hook up the OBD2 and guess what, I knew I had something wrong with my EVAP system, question is not sure if that's causing the surge in ecomony, I got these codes " ECM Internal Circuit Failure A" and "EVAP system leak (canister)" So I quickly ran to the dealership and got myself a charcol canister for 200$ CAN now the guy at the dealership says he 99% percent sure that once i install the canister it''s goin to give me a similar error message like EVAP system leak.

Anyways anyone know where i can get a new ecm or my options also I read somewhere that the ecm give that message if the battery runs low mine did and I had gotten that replaced so now im (crossing my finger) and hoping after reseting the ecm it goes away.

 

Have you driven it an hour at freeway speed to fully charge the new battery?
and codes come on now with fully charged battey?
tried an ECU reset after batt swap?
if it was really low on volts it sent bad signals out

its smarter to get codes and come here for advice,, before running to the dealer based soley on codes- which are at best-- CLUES-- not diagnosis!

 

wrong again, the voltage does not vary with RPM the amperage does vary some with RPM but even at idle the alternator will supply 90% of the the rated amperage by design, thus why you can actually disconnect the battery cable turn every accessory on the car on and still not have any issues. Sensors using power no they are basically resistors and are supply a constant voltage with milliamp range of current draw. But again your a fucking god that has never actually designed or manufactured an alternator but if you want to search GM's archive's you'll see my name on the detail and outline drawings used to manufacture the CS series of Delcotron's and While your at it check out the ignition sytems it's there too and the land speed record in 93 with the Impact at just under 200 was nice feather too put maybe EV-1 might be a little better know name to you then the orginal one.

 

http://www.bcae1.com/charging.htm

read up fool

 

the forum is for sharing- not personal bashing

I get thank you PM and public post thanks all the time, so I must know some things that are saving ziners money

If I used the wrong word- volts instead of amps, I apologize to anyone who jumped off the cliff thinking that was my suggestion

Now if we can resume helping other ziners with their current problems....

 

damn RCB2000 calm down it isnt that serious

instead of bashing each other help him out if you think he dont know what he is talking about.

you seem pretty knowlegable yourself so help out us members instead of bashing. thats my 2 cents

 

RCB2000, hello. whats crackalackin? woo saa

 

 

The information referenced in that link you supplied advises NOT to do this- just so nobody tries it I bring it up.

 

Quite an interesting thread I have stared I might add, aha funny how not one person replied to my update, anyways I didnt go to the dealership just for the part, since a buddy ogf mine owns a shop i just ran it there and got the coeds real quick. SO today i went to his shop and we installed the new canister! note the valve close solinoid was pretty rusteed up (we had to grind off the old screws to remove it) and we also tested it to see if it was functioning propperly hookked up 12v battery and heard it clicking so im hoping its fine put it back in and now im noticinng a spitting sound coming from underneath the car (sound like a leak) anways erased the codes and im goin back there first thing tomorrow to check if anyting new poppes up on the OBD2, Fuel economy update: Fulltank - completely empty(312km!!!) My mechanic says there's definatly something else fuked up and the EVAP system will help but not a whole lot so far i've done about 32 city kms and my fuel gauge hasn't moved (keeping my fingers crossed again) haha

also just curious i've noticed that the old canister compared to the new was a bit more heaver any thoughts on what might cause that?

 

which one was heavier? old one? I would venture to say that the old one has either lost some of it's contents or it's clugged with dirt, dust and junk. and why there is a difference in weight also it could have just been redesigned and it's weight is different now.

regarding the seafoam through the intake, you didn't quite get it right, once you start pouring it in you need to raise the RPM's as your doing it or imediately after you've poured it in. It's the higher RPM that will cause it to smoke and burn off the carbon in the induction system. There really isn't a need to take the car on adrive, you only need to increase the RPM to get it burn off the carbon and you can do that in the driveway there is a rev limiter so don't worry about over reving the engine. Pick-up the RPMs to around 3500-4500 and leave it there untill it quits smoking

 

seafoam says drive it!!!!
heat in cat reacting to oil that is seafoam= is most of the smoke
there are idle- off idle and 2000rpm methods to apply it- all work
www.seafoamsales-tech info for confirmation and good reading as our diy has gotten confusing

you can also do seafoam via just the gas tank, 1 can in just under half tank,8 gal, twice.
that gets more than the vac port areas, and all the fuel parts!

 

dont forget the TB air plate- remove air tube from filter box to TB and use carb cleaner

 

I would disagree because this isn't any different than running ATF through a carb in the old days when there wasn't cat's in the exhaust and they smoked like hell, do what you want I prefer the easy method.

Also it's not good to just let it be sucked in without the RPM raised you run the risk of the seafoam collecting in a cyclinder and bending a valve because liquids don't compress. With RPM raised it will suck it in and create a fine concentration in the cylinder staying in contact with the carbon build-up long and doing a much more effective job of cleaning the carbon off the valves and combustion chamber and that is what you want to happen. Pouring into the tank is going clean the varnish out of the fuel lines, rails and clean the injectors and do very little to remove the carbon from the cylinder's combustion chamber. But do what you want. I prefer to use a proven method to clean the top-end of an engine.

 

I use both gas and MASTER vac port methods, and their tech section 2000 rpm method- which we dont even discuss in the diy but should be, plus some thru TB to clean it
Yes its important not to add too much at once- it can backwash-backfire, and has on a few who ~completly ignored all the directions~

I was quoting seafoams Tech guy Jim D. on cat/driving heat= cleans the O2 sensor off to prevent CEL and blast out `liquified carbon`
and that 2 cans in 2, 1/2 tanks will clean intake valve backs and stem, and piston tops for best combustion
along with fuel lines rails injectors etc,, for those weary of DIY vac port method
the vac port wont do any of those fuel control areas

my past also includes use of atf to ~restore/clean old chevy engines~ pre cat-
so I agree heat comes from combustion chamber too-
as well as other areas like the cat on modern cars- which burns super hot inside it--
so even more smoke from any type oil passing thru
(seafoam is 3 specific oils each with its own task-amazing what you learn on a good website and phone conversation or 4)

this old mind is losing its slim grip on reality so if the masses will forgive any misplaced thoughts..and return any found running loose!

 

ok so just because i didn't have someone sitting in the car and reving th engine i didnt get smoke? I'm sure there's more to it than just that but i will do seafoam again the right way, also which vaccum line is the best to suck seafoam up and most effective to clean out the system? And where is it located, Thanks

O also i took it back to the shop and noticed the valve close solinoid and purge are both ticking, mechanic says it normal i think hes right but iuno if it should be noticable, also we hooked back up the OBD 2 and NO CODES apparently the canister solved the EVAP leak and yes the old canister was More Heavy due to carp build up

 

heres a diy vid the correct way in J-series. You also put in crankcase which no one mentioned but be ready to change oil within 100miles. Some are here to help. Most on this thread. Let me apologize for what you are getting.

HERE'S Vid. Let me know if it helps. Also after it's sat 20min. Rev to 4000rmp and hold throttle there. dont rev up/down caus smoke looks cool...lol.

 

We should just start another 2G sub-section called "Seafoam Halp"