Roadking66

A 2000 TL timing belt broke at 118,000 miles even though belt replacemnt was performed by the dealer at 105,000 miles. My thought was probably an ill-adjusted tensioner. All exhaust valves were replaced and a new belt was re-installed. Several 100 miles later the "check engine" light sent the car back in. This time the inlet valves were adjusted. Several 100 miles later, another "check engine" light.

What damage occurs to the car when the timing belt breaks. Do ALL valves need replacing not just exhaust? Are other critical engine components affected? Even though the car was traveling at very low speed, is engine replacement the only remedy for belt breakage?

Typically the car is driven fairly hard. Never had any mechanical problems; always meticulously serviced.

fsttyms1

Typically when it breaks its time for a new engine. Usually it bends valves in sometimes damages the piston tops. If metal from the valves or piston work their way up and down in the cyl it scratches them. They can also damage the valve seat areas so that they doe seal properly

sbuswell

get the dealer to give you a new motor, they f'd up when they replaced it. They need to pay for a new motor and install it for free!!!

Sohcisme

Damn that sucks. Yeah you better go back to the dealer and tell them its their fault.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

a new engine is not mandatory, the valves and the heads can be rebuilt to better then new condition

and top of the pistons being damaged, not normally/likely, but yes there is the possibility though, normally it is only like a little ding in the top surface of the piston, so not much to actually worry about really
and normally it is just displaced a little to the side from the ding and never actually breaks off

fsttyms1

Yea its not mandatory, But in most cases you could pick up a used low mileage motor much cheaper than doing all the work on the end to right things.

I have seen my fair share of honda motors that were junk after the timing belt broke from bent valves to pistons with holes in them due to the valves breaking and pinching thru. What one needs to replace all DEPENDS on the amount of damage done.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

fair enough, but also BTW it sounds like he was maybe not "on it", which would have a better chance of not punching holes in the pistons and such, cause the lower momentum and such, from lower rpms

BTW it is an ACURA motor, not a Honda motor

Roadking66

Thanks for all the helpful responses. Fortunately, I was not "on it" at the time. So, perhaps the "kinks" can be repaired properly. At any rate, the dealer is trying their damndest to repair it on their dime. Have to give them credit for that!

dukelx2005

I agree Dealer is at FAULT there, u replace the timing belt at 105 and ur only at 118 only drove it 13k miles.. but you know they are going to try and blame you for something. I would demand a new motor be installed free no charge to you

thinhthan

yea if you did it at the dealer and you got papers i would bring it back to them and want a new engine free install and everything

Walfunk

Heads up...Hamilton Honda in New Jersey is having that timing belt special again. I had my car done there and they did a great job. Great service and nice place to wait while you are having the service done...don't sleep on this if you are over or close to 105,000 miles. Let me know if i need to post the email I rec'd from them with all the info...

Lamarski

Whoah!!!!!! I broken timing belt means a new engine????I am not an expert on Acura engines but this seems kinda harsh. Timing belts break on older cars all of the time. Does this really mean the end to an Acura engine?I am not trying to troll, I really am curious. If anything this should just mean that the engine will not operate until a new belt is installed.Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

totaledTL

If the piston(s) smack a bunch of valves the repair cost could exceed the price of a replacement engine.

fsttyms1

^ you are wrong. Many modern over head cam engines are what are referred to as "Interference" engines. Meaning that if the belt breaks the valves come in contact with pistons usually causing significant damage to the motor where it needs to be replaced. Some get lucky and need just a valve job or new heads (which arent cheap)

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

not really significant damage, geneally only bent valves FYI (and like valve guides and such), but yes it can be significant at times depending on the motor design itself (like a light hitter or a hard hitter) and how fast it was spinning and such when the belt broke, it can punch holes in the pistons and it be easier to just replace the engine then

fsttyms1

I think i would consider any damage to the piston, especially a hole significant damage which can happen pretty easy with engine speeds above idle, especially if the person is getting on it at all. Also these heads arent cheap. Start to damage the valve seats/guides etc all can cost A Lot!

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

i mean like a hole in the piston is definetly time to start looking for a engine, but like a little indent in the top of the piston like were some of the carbon build up got pushed to the side i would not worry about too much

and heads being expensive yes like $1200 bucks per side or something stupid for our cars, but on most cars heads can be rebuilt after smacking the valves, so no where close to costing that much
but there are couple which do destroy the heads though, iirc a mitshibishi 4G63 outta of like the eclipse and such, you smack the valves and the head is wasted, not enough material around the valve guides and such, so instead of having a replaceable part damaged the head itself gets damage/distorted instead
and i have seen a 4G63 with a hole punched through the piston before also, from it hitting so hard and such

piggylover1985

You should take your car back to the dealer and complain about that. Since they just did the timming belt in it recently. If the warranty expired, they might give you a break in labor charge. If worse case you can find a used low mileage engine for our cars fairly cheap. You can get a used engine for around $500.

Cemore71

question if i change timing belt and put timing wrong and try to start could i damage valves

fsttyms1

LIke answered in your other thread, yes it can cause damage to the valves.

01tl4tl

all the marks have to be lined up or the exhaust valves are open when a piston comes up and smacks them--same as broken timing belt

many dealers and shops do not offer to replace the idler pulley or tensioner pulley- saying it spins fine and there is no leakage
Same idiot would say not to replace the water pump, even though its right behind the belt-- because its not leaking today

yeah and with 100 thou plus miles on it and the normal desire for engine to go to the next 100 service,,replace those or they die in months or year,, and when one fails its the same as breaking timing belt- it will shred the belt

If the dealer offered those to you and you declined- thats on you
If they failed to offer them to you it it really needed them- thats on them
pretty easy to tell what failed when you remove the covers

Needs new heads- at the least

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

new heads....not really; old ones should be able to be rebuilt easily, but either way the heads have to come off, for it to be fixed, so still looking at a $2,000 plus bill to be fixed (and that is with a shop doing the work btw fsttyms1) (even a used engine will have to be caught on maintence too and such, if you go that route, easier with it out of the car)

smartypants

This only supports my position on NOT replacing the belt and letting nature take its course.

It's certainly possible that this dealer (tech) substituted a (cheap ?) aftermarket belt and the customer takes the hit. I would be looking very closely at that belt to find out if it's OEM if the dealer hasn't already confiscated it.

I would push the dealer for a factory re-manufactured engine (short block) as opposed to a "fixed" upper end. With a the parts colliding, you really don't know what else has been affected.

Good luck !

smartypants

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

either you can get 300k+ miles if taken care of, or 100k to 200k miles on the motor, depending on when the belt breaks


and even if you did put on a cheap belt, it will probably be the bearings and such that fail first, because you are too cheap to pay for a quality shop that uses quality parts (it is rarely the belt that actually snaps [but it does at times though especially when contaminated by coolant from a bad water pump, or oil from cam/crank seals] normally it is the bearings and such letting go that will take out the "timing" and bend valves and such

so if you do a complete job, you should not have any issues down the line, and never have to go back in there, till replacement time comes back up, then do another complete job, and repeat as necessary (hell my boss has a 93 camry V6 with 295k miles on it, and it has never been opened up, other then for some valve cover seals once, so still all origional inside, and it does not even smoke at startup, and still has plenty of power to cruise down the highway at 80+ mph, and still get like 25+ mpg

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

get some better terms , if you go that route you might as well go for a longblock with new heads and such already installed
and you are looking at about $1800 just for that shortblock (and anyways the bottom end is geneally perfectly fine, when the valves hit [some motors due punch holes in the pistons though, but not ours] its the valves and valve guides that take the damage and those can be replaced quite easily, and not too expensive, mostly labour (probably about $1000 for a quality job of rebuilding your heads with parts and labour included)


and iirc correctly honda only sells NEW shortblocks and such not remanufactured ones, but now our trannies are completely another story though

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

maybe they don't offer a longblock

but anyways link for the shortblock, and some new heads
http://www.hondapartsunlimited.com/i...&submit=submit


3600+ just in parts plus shipping

or about 4800 from your local dealer list, but you do not have to pay for shipping though, so some of the cost is offset

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

plus you still need all the timing components, head bolts, head gaskets, seals since you are going for that new motor feel

plus the labour itself to install all said components, so you are easily looking at a $5500 bill for that motor


or just get the heads pulled and rebuilt and put back on, and you are maybe looking at a $2500 bill or so, with it in like before condition if not better (due to valves and such sealing better, and valves adjusted also)

smartypants

I must have an Alzheimer's moment.......fries quite rightly corrected me.

A short block is shipped without heads and a long block has the heads installed, which is clearly what's needed in this case.

In any event, a "new" engine is what I'd push for given the degree of culpability of the dealership.

Were you able to get the belt from the dealer ? That would be a key piece of evidence should it end up in court. If they say no or we lost it, send them a letter formally requesting the broken belt and any other defective parts. A refusal or any other negative response is "telling" to a judge and will not cast the dealership in a positive light. On a related note, you should be documenting the exchanges with the dealership and getting as much in writing as you can. Record the telephone conversations, even if they are not admissible, they do provide an accurate record of what was said.

Remember if you can't prove it, it didn't happen !

smartypants.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

but considering that it has already been a while since repaired (if it has not been already) they will have just tossed out the belt, and won't still have it around, but if it is still there, then i don't see why not, of them still not having it



but yeah if they are willing to put a new engine for you, i'd be all for that, but good luck with getting that though (probably will just be rebuilt, but considering it is a dealer, it might be easier for the techs just to slap a new engine in place