09_Type-S

got the VSA and CEL lights on my 03TLS a few time and i got the codes read.

P0301 cyl 1 misfire
P0304 cyl 4 misfire
P0300 random misfire
P1399 random misfire

so im guessing its either the spark plugs or coils, i did seafoam the car about 5000K ago and didnt change out the plugs.

bibledriver

How many miles on the plugs and is that the first time you have ever seafoamed?

01tl4tl

as long as you followed the NEW DIY and used the MAIN vac port AT the throttle body-
that big one in front of the TB assebly- the one WITH the hose clamp...
not the OLD method-- of the small line on the fender that goes to the back of the engine
Thats not a valid place- it only feeds 3 cylinders and may cause probs
(seafoam says if you dont get all the cyls it can be issues) (my guess- half a clean engine is not a happy computer trying to figure out what is going on)

IS that correct- you used the big main vac port? then did a hottfoot drive afterwards?
1st time foamers are encouraged to repeat the gas tank and vac port method in 2000 miles so it gets the remaining crud out

Has it been running funny a while? or suddenly it acts like its on 5 cylinders and the gas mileage sucks?
There has been a rash of coil failures recently reported here. When you get multi misfire codes its usually been just 1 coil- 45 dollars part- easy install.
The coils are like lightbulbs- worked perfect this morning - and without doing anything to it- it wont work this afternoon----
Delicate Electronics- hot weather- age- all factors
Depending on total car miles you may want to change the plugs anyway.

Can you give us a few more hints to help diagnose- bibledriver is really good on this stuff too - we can figure it out between the collective brains of acurazine

09_Type-S

i followed the new method with the hose that is infront of the TB, i did the hotfooted drive but didnt let it soak for 15 mins, i only let it sit about 5 mins. used 3 cans (vac, gastank and fuel tank). i was having bad gas mileage b4 the treatment but afterwards its not to bad. i have about 110000Km on the car and the plugs were changed at around 70000km they are NKD iridiums. and yes firsst time its been seafoamed.

01tl4tl

5 minutes is ok- thats what the cans directions say- we just like to let it cook a while longer, so thats not the problem
You say you added it to the fuel tank AND the gas tank- which are the same thing.
Did you do the engine oil??? - plus the vac line and gas tank?
If so= the oil and filter needs to be changed right away- very soon- a day or so of driving for most - others just let it idle in the driveway then change oil and filter
thats only if you added it to the engine oil thru the filler hole

The miles on the plugs is ok- I would suspect coil failure- check the thread by hitlayer
he has a bad coil too

bibledriver

Shoot, man. I would go with another seafomin too. Cant hurt. And your ecm is pretty sensitive, so to help, again, is your car running noticeably poor? or just got the lights? By NKD iridiums, I am pretty sure you mean, NGK (not some ebay stuff) right? Could be a coil, but I would say if a coil's bad, you would talk a bit more about how its running (especially with two misfires). We'll see, though.

? . . .

01tl4tl

I think the car likes to throw those multi codes when its just one- to screw with you~
the other thread on this- the guy did the old school method and removed the plug and coil- put them assembled to ground the plug at engine, while helper cranks starter
When he got to one with a very weak spark- he figured that must be the one it needs

09_Type-S

yea sorry i was in a hurry when i was typing it. NGK plugs and i put the Seafoam in the crank and gas tank. the car seems to run fine, no rough idle or anything, gets about 450km per tank, and thats with some spirited driving. i have i/h/s/p. the one thing that happend which was abnormal was that i left it parked for about 30 mins then went to start it and it wouldnt start (cranked it for about 5 seconds) then i let it sit about 30 secs then tryed again, it started this time. also over the last winter i had the chance to drive it about 5-6 days a month from november-march. but now i drive it everyday. so i dont know if there might be a build up of anything from it sitting in the garage for extended periods of time. i did add fuel stabilizer though.

01tl4tl

did you change the engine oil and filter since you added foam to the crankcase?
Fuel stabiizer certainly helps when stored (seafoam can be used as that too!)
Wont hurt to foam the intake again - and a hi dose in the gas tank to blast the injectors clean of any crud

09_Type-S

yea the oil was changed within 20km of the seafoaming, with amsol and a new filter. yea ill try to seafoam it up again, had the codes cleared earlier today and i drove around all day, the codes did not return.

bibledriver

Interesting if your car didn't start at all. Wonder if you got some bad gas? That can cause misfires too. Also, depending on how much crap your seafoam is cleaning out of your gas, it could be just part of the process. Unfortunately, my advice would be seafoam it again, keep driving it until you get some more symptoms, if you get anymore, that is.

bibledriver

True, good point.

09_Type-S

yea im gona seafoam it today, i have about 1/4 tank of gas and then i have about a 180Km drive today so lets see what she does.

bibledriver

Sweet, let us know. I kinda think this could be a random thing just due to your cleaning a bunch of crap out!

09_Type-S

are having misfires a really bad thing, like could cause serious damage later on? ive never had a car which did that.

bibledriver

You probably have had misfires, just never a car sensitive and integraged enough to tell you. just lets more gas though the exhaust. I suppose it is possible to cause damage, but I would think not (not probable). Just not burning gas in the cylinder. Think of your rev limiter, doing same thing, essentially (minus extra gas) and you are at the height of your revs and you dont really have any issues with that.

09_Type-S

so i seafoamed again, lots of smoke this time more then last time. i belive this is b/c i waited about 20 mins before i went for a drive. put one can through the vac line after the TB and then one can in about a half full tank. also picked up 6 new iridium plugs. the ones i took are were pretty black i think that might be the cause for the misfires. reset the engine light hopefully this solves the problem.

09_Type-S

ahhh the lights came back on

01tl4tl

its normal to get a CEL after seafoam- depends on crud level and how the after drive was performed- if not hot foot enough- the O2 sensor can get loaded up- drive it a day and it should clear itself- OR pull fuse for CLOCK on passenger side footwell- that resets the ECU and will clear the light
DRIVE IT
If your old plugs were really black - there may be other actual prob in car
Drive it- get the codes read again and report

01tl4tl

normally I would say to wait a few days after foam to install new plugs- to let the crud work its way out and not get anything on the shiny new plugs

09_Type-S

yea ill drive it for a few days and see what happends. thanks

I hate cars

Yes. Misfires send raw fuel through the exhaust, killing catalytic convertors quickly.

They are only caused by a couple things. Weak/No spark, fuel issue (very rich or lean, or low compression.

Everyone on this board loves Seafoam but running it through the intake is very harsh. You're breaking up carbon deposits and other stuff quickly in large quantities. Guess where this stuff goes? You're better off running a fuel additive every once in a while that breaks stuff up slowly over time or keeps it clean in the first place.

bibledriver

Just to testify, I will say (and I have pictures to prove this) that I just put a RT cat with 2k miles on it on my car. When compared to the stock cat that came off after 2 serious seafoams, there was absolutely no difference in the catalyst bed in the new as compared to the old.

The first step in seafoaming is to get the car to operating temperatures. This does two things:
1. It heats the intake which will help once the seafoam soaks the deposits.
2. It brings the Cat to operating temperature and will allow it to burn off the small particulate matter that passes when restarting and running the car after seafoaming.

I don't think the above post is accurate.

I hate cars

Which part? It's well known that misfires cause cats to fail. This is the main reason why misfires will throw a light. It's so you can fix the problem before it destroys the cats.

Second, I'm not sure what you're trying to find by visually looking at the one small area of the cat that you can see. Even if you don't see anything doesn't mean that it's not there. One way cats lose their effectiveness if by getting coated with stuff. You won't be able to see it but it's there.

Third, when you break stuff up in the intake, it has to go through the motor. It has to make it's way past the intake valve and hopefully doesn't get caught while the valve is closing. Then it's in the cylinder. It can get caught between the rings and cylinder, scoring the cylinder. It's obvious you have a lot of crap going through there because you're supposed to change the plugs due to contamination.

Believe me, my post above is 100% accurate. Run Seafoam every day for all I care.

09_Type-S

still getting the lights, is there a way to test out the coils to see if they have gone bad, there is a local junkyard that has a set of 6 for $25 each said they all have been tested.

01tl4tl

you can try unplugging the coils 1 at a time, or buy 1 known good, brand new coil, and try it on each cylinder, or 1 ziner did it old school and removed the coil and plug- put plug to ground and watched for weak spark

Seafoam needs a hot foot drive- with sustained 4000 rpm 10-15 minutes afterwards (starting on warm engine) that will blow any crud out the exhaust without damage to the cats. If a CEL comes on it means a little goo was stuck on the O2 sensor and cleans itself off in a days driving. Usual cause- failure to folow instructions properly

The only time you have to change the spark plugs after, if if they are weak 100k miles on them already, (ready to replace) and you dont do the proper clean off/clean out drive afterwards.

As for the other claims- check youtube- there is a great vid shot with a boroscope camera inside the engine of whats happenig during cleaning
Wynns makes a complete system and honda and gm too- using some in the intake vac main port and the gas tank, same as we do.
All of these make the crud turn to goo- which is easily processed thru the system without damage to the parts

If it was that bad for engines to run a full cleaning- why does honda make it-sell it and suggest it be done every 15,000 miles ?

I dont foam everyday or every month- but once a year wont hurt and does appear to help
Engines are crud factories- its better to get it out !!
I also run Chevron gas- which only has a maitenance dose of techroline in it, but helps in between major cleanings

If you had a bad coil- that cylinder is going to be loaded up and needs a proper cleaning.
It can be done with a LOT of quality fuel cleaner in the tank- thats true- and it can be done faster thru the main vac port
Gen 2 guru fsstyms1 used it all the time and when pulled his motor at 200k to drop in a CLS motor and 6 speed, he dismantled the engine and it was spotless and running very well- thats good enough for me to say its ok to use on my car

bibledriver

Maybe not 100% accurate, otherwise Seafoam would likely not exist at this point. Yes, it all goes through. It is not oil that you are putting through that would end up hotspotting your cylinder. I looked at my plugs after doing Seafoam treatment. Contamination was hardly noticeable, if at all. IMO it is more of a guarantee for them. If you do both, you are sure to feel the difference, making their "tuneup" more successfully perceived by the user.

It is much more difficult to ruin a cat than you are letting on. I have seen oilburning cars with plenty of coating ability driving with no cat problems whatsoever, and that is constant "coating." Cats get so hot that if your engine is running right (not habitually misfiring) then it will last SUPER long time. My old honda had 312k miles on the original cat, and original injectors that barely passed Hydrocarbon testing if i ran the engine at high revs first (ie. fuel constantly going through the cat). No cat problems. If your engine runs wrong for a long period, then I agree it is bad for your cat. If you are misfiring, yes, lower temp. and chemical reactions may eventually render your cat "inoperable." However, there are thousands upon thousands of people that have seafoamed and I have yet to see an investigative report on "CAT KILLING TUNEUPS: TONIGHT @ 10." I know there are mixed emotions on chemicals though the intake, but this is just my

I used to get a lot of misfire codes on my 04 at high revs, when addressed, they reprogrammed the cpu to be less sensitive, as a directive from acura.

09_Type-S

alright, another thing i notice is that the check engine light remains on but the vsa one comes on usually at idle. so could this mean it only misfires at idle?. i did the hot footed drive. there was crud that collected on my exhaust tips. this is what im going to do: since im gettin codes on cyl 1 and 4 i will be removing those coils and installing them on cyl 2 and 5. reset codes and rescan the car with the codes come back. if i now get misfire codes on cyl 2 and 5 this should mean the coils have gone bad. i will get some new ones to replace these and hopefully this solves it. what do you guys think?

bibledriver

unplug the wires from the coils one at a time. You will notice that the engine runs like crap. If you run into one that doesn't change the way the engine is running, that's the culprit. If you have a coil that is ready to go, it will be hard to find until it actually goes. There are resistance tests you can do to diagnose it if you have a multimeter. There is a resistance range you are looking for but this diagnostic is not listed for the ICM's.

Does the engine idle well? or is it seeming like it misses?

bibledriver

soundes like a good plan. Let us know what comes up.

bibledriver

Sounds like a good plan. Let us know what you get.

fsttyms1

Unless the coil has completely failed unplugging one at a time will do nothing. Most misfires are due to a single coil that is going bad but not gone. The best way is to buy 1 new one and slowly work your way around all 6 cyls with it resetting the ecu in between. Seeing you have codes for 1 and 4 i would start with those cyls first.

bibledriver

I think that what he is doing will essentially accomplish that.

If/when you get new coils, I wouldn't buy from a junkyard if it were me. The modules aren't that expensive new.

09_Type-S

yea ill order some up then, just in canada they like to jack the price to like double for any oem part.

bibledriver

Dang Canada

01tl4tl

Doh- you had to know all that free health care and higher education was getting paid for by someone!

bibledriver

so, what is the latest?

09_Type-S

ok so i ordered new coils (2), they were $85.95 EACH!!!!!!!. stupid canada. i installed them earlier today, i noticed the car started a little faster then previous times. i hope this fixes the problem. ill keep you guys updated.

01tl4tl

did you do the suggested test of 1 new coil one each coded cylinder to test if car was better? or just throw them on and drive with no diagnostic testing?

Reset the engine computer- pull CLOCK fuse in passenger footwell- or disconnect battery NEG cable for a few minutes- make sure you know the radio security code before battery cable method. and drive a day then get codes checked again

bibledriver

Oh, and then don't forget to set your seat before somebody else drives and moves it.