1999 TL with over 200k miles. Occasionally when I start the car, the engine stalls unless I step on the gas pedal and keep the idle at least 1500 to 2000 rpm for at least a minute, then it will stay running when I take my foot off the accelerator. What's wrong?

 

what do your spark plugs look like,,more than 100kmiles on them?
ever run fuel system cleaner

might be a cold start system issue or idle control/ iacv

driveablity gurus? anyone????

 

Plugs have less than 10,000 miles on them and put fuel system cleaner in a couple of weeks ago with no help.

 

what cleaner and how much to how many gallons fuel?

 

clean the IAC and TPS dicking with the plugs and fuel cleaner is a tail chasing exercise you don't need to participate in.

 

My Nissan truck (fuel inj.) had been stalling. Berryman B-12 fuel treatment cured it completely.

 

berryman, bg--redline,,and my personal favorite xxxxxxx
all very good products for use in fuel tank to remove crud and clean injectors
Once a year is my suggestion

question for rcb--IACV buildup is a common prob for us and has cleaning info--
HOW do we clean the TPS,,throttle position sensor?? thanks

when I ask about plugs etc its to find out if they have 150kmiles on OE plugs
or if changed, the correct plugs went in--
ac bosch etc not a good match for the TL= as proven by many users

It takes a few minutes to inspect a plug--and they tell all about engine operation.
We can probably agree on that -plug reading reveal truths

others are also suggesting fuel cleaner- as a starting point
seems reasonable to assume there is crud buildup in the injectors and intake parts and cleaning it will help overall smoothness
(interested persons see tube vids for boroscope camera inside the combustion chamber--watching fuel system cleaners at work on intake valve and piston top-from dirty to clean ,,very cool)

 

it has contacts/electrical connections doesn't it, and then there is a cavity it goes in and interfaces with the throttle plate too doesn't it. sorry if you where too busy worring about the plugs, also if it was dirty injector's or fuel related then it would happen all of the time including hot at an idle condition, but then that is assuming they can tell the difference between bad fuel, bad ignition or just a poor idle.

 

Was hoping you could state fact,, as to how to locate and clean the TPS?
I asked you a direct question to open a space for what I assumed was actual knowledge of the TL system,,to go along with your theory of it being dirty

How exactly do we deal with it? CRC? where is it,,do you own a TL?
This is not a problem largely reported in the past,,maybe we are all due for it on mileage and time?

other possible long term issues are what I look at in many post- get details of maitenance history- plugs-fuel etc...to see if there are underlying problems
ie: 150kmile plugs will cause other issues, wrong plugs...
low battery will cause untold false codes and hard starts etc
how about the recent car with the plugged cat,, and none of us figured it out!!

as for my personal knowledge and ability, you are new here and dont know my background= which runs from building scca race cars and competition license, to aerobatic airplanes,,also licensed pilot...
some fuel knowledge goes along with all of those

we dont know jack about your background,, beyond a defensive position and spouting about being the expert on gm testing of coils etc
Get to know the forum, and share real info IF you have it--ie: location of TPS, tricks to access without removing 3 layers of skin from your hand etc
thank you very much for contributing your real knowledge

 

my postiion is address the componets that can actually cause and or correct the issue. Rough idle cold seems to be the problem, sticky IAC dirty TPS, stick out as prime suspect typically. tell someone to read the plugs is a waiste of time since the guy on the other end doesn't have a clue what the different shades of color mean nor does he have the tools to inspect and read the plug correctly, oh yea anyone can look at the tip of the plug problem is that isn't where you look. And if the plug is old or wrong then you have additional simptoms and or problems.

Me my background well it's like this Sr Product designer is my title, I have design experince in engine controls, ignition systems, cranking motors, electric and hybrid vehicle propulsion systems all for GM, my credits include multiple Indy Car series wins using my CD ignition system, and a land speed record for electric vehicles in 1997. I have designed medical appliances for the trauma field for Depuy Ortopeadics working with the top surgeons in the world developing new devices and the instruments to implant them in human bone or tissue. I currently am lending my skills to Rolls-Royce, and yes I do own a 2000 TL and I have been in a garage ever since I was about 4 helping my dad at his shop (FYI he's an ASE master tech for both gas and diesel plus all the other sub cat's) and continued until I recieved my CIMT degree. So yes I can design and build it too .... art to part as it's called and why I have no respect towards some who claim how well they manufacture stuff, too me it's all marketing BS lies

 

Wasn't true in my case.

 

ok we appreciate your knowledge base, and the question remains:

Are you giving ~potential issue~ based on generals, or know of dirty TPS based on your own car?
for those here who are not current acura techs- thats our only referance- our car had a prob and xyz fixed it..often thanks to info on azine

as long as we keep any personal name calling and doubting of intelligence out of the post, and stick to facts or good guesses as needed and identified--
this forum and threads can be useable

Does anyone have actual experience with TPS cleaning, cking of its mounting or electrical test for performance,,something funky happens to them,,,
Im not well versed in micro-electronics and defer to those gurus

 

for others referance:
part of my background was growing up with airplanes, race vehicles of 2 and 4 wheels, service writer, tech, shop manager, done every job in the place at dealers and family shops for t00000000oo long,,ask the ulcers

From those experiences I found that asking questions of the customer often garnered important background info,,, not revealed in original complaint:
Ohhhhh--your neighbor kid washed the car and engine,,then the starting prob began
,,and you had to jumpstart the car TWICE because he ran the stereo...

the story always changes as you get details,,its called diagnostics

 

sidenote: rough idle in the TL may be a bad coil
If you get `multi cyl misfire` codes, thats where to look
by inspecting the spark plugs you can tell which is not firing!!

basic plug reading can be done by anyone- with the help of the internet

 

well if you rreally think that anyone car read plugs you REALLY should stick to being the service writer AND ASKING QUESTIONS.

A to correctly read the plugs you have to be at full throttle and kill the motor, not practical on the open road.... closed course race track or out on a lake in a boat no problem...

then you need to chop the plug or have the correct tools to look at the plug where the fire ring is know where that is? doubt if you but that is how you read plugs looking at the end ceramic or electrode isn't how, yea you get a warm fuzzy feeling for how the care is running after miles and miles of driving. Oh well

 

RFLMAO

please shot in the dark and you didn't eleminate if it was the fuel causing the issue, water in gas never causes problems, but hey you solved your issue and assumed it was a dirty injector and not bad fuel.

 

where does he state the CEL came on or there are codes stored in the ECU?

maybe reading the plugs will help.

But I would be taking a close look at the throttle body as that is the source of the OP problem.

 

"...water in the gas never causes problems,..." Huh? What are you talking about??

It's plain & simple- It was stalling, off idle, had been for a long, long time. Didn't matter how much of brand xyz fuel was put into it, from where or when, etc. After the Berryman fuel treatment it COMPLETELY quit stalling. That was months ago & it hasn't done it since.

So it's far from any "shot in the dark" as you are so quick to assume.

 

OP did not- 01tl said IF.... reread the post.

 

as usual.. I was pointing out a fact for noobs--something a few of the gurus have discussed recently behind the scenes-- regarding multiple new threads on rough running- multi cyl misfire is 90 percent of the time, a bad coil

and yes,,IF your CEL bulb is working,,, it should have shown up,,if thats the prob.
BUT
as a pilot= I assume the landing gear DOWN bulb has burnt out and ck it,,,
before full panic sets in thinking the gear is not coming down!!! we are all going to diiiiiiiiiiiie
doh its just a bulb

never trust waiting on a CEL
car is running funny, get codes ckd for free at parts stores everywhere - except Ca where they want you to go to a shop and pay $100-150, regardless of them finding prob in 5 minutes,,still get to charge 150 PLUS more to actually fix it!!!!

the OP has a 99- I would ck into the ignition switch--it causes many problems including shuts off and back on while driving, intermittant running
has a recall that acura does once then its on you the next 4 times it fails
OP has 200k miles--its reasonable to suspect dirty internals and ign parts for roughness

anyone can observe the condition, color, and if its coated in fuel or oil-- of a spark plug.
using internet available charts, like the old `champion spark plug reading charts` as seen on the walls in shops of old, they can get a basic idea
Not everyone needs racetrack data on plugs,,we are discussing what things the average person can look for at home,,trying to save hundreds in diagnostic fees over a prob someone here likely experienced before,,how many new things can go wrong with our car?

 

ok lets see, the OP has used fuel injector cleaner no help, the plugs have less than 10K on them so that pretty much raps up all everyone else's suggestion other than the ignition switch it either works or it doesn't work it won't be intermittant while running, if you think so try turning your ignition off and right back on again and see what happens.


SO back the issue poor idle cold, IAC, TPS dirty electrical contacts, loose connections, excessive carbon buildup in the passage or on the unit it's self, next issue to look at are vaccum leaks, so tightening all of the screws and bolts on the throttle body including the buttery fly plate, but again all are related to the throttle body and all are located on the throttle body. But hey the problem isn't there when it's hot wonder if the expanding metal is sealing off the vaccum leak when it's warm. Yea it's real easy say this guy did that did this and fixed the problem only problem your guess that it's the same problem, since the plugs have been looked at and the OP has used cleaner don't really see them being the same so I don't address them the same but to each there own if they like tail chasing exercises they like tail chasing exercises. I don't have the time for that type of exercise and prefer to fix the problem and look at the like components that effect the problem, idle is controlled by the TPS, and IAC at idle once it's off idle the IAC has nothing to do with anything.

reading plugs with 10K on them and comparing then to a chart waist of time because unless the engine is really out of tune they will pretty much look the way they did when you took then out of the box. But then if the service writer feels it's usefull so be it I do not and I've never seen a service writer actually fix a car it is always passed on to the mechanic after the service writer writes down the answers to their stupid questions they ask the customer and passes that along to the mechanic that can actually fix the problem

 

I have this same problem and am currently diagnosing it. Does your CEL and TCS light come on when this happens? Does startup difficulty really only happen when the car has been driven and warmed up?

I ran mine over to Autozone and got misfire at all of my cylinders...likely meaning one of my ignition coils are going. I didn't think this could be the case originally because it really only happened intermittently, especially in the spring/fall. I already changed one of my coils a couple months ago because my TL would actually stutter heavily when I hit 50ish mph and lag in acceleration.

I guess I am going to go and get another, pop it in each coil until it fires up without a stutter, hopefully it works...I am also going to clean my EGR and TB air plate this weekend. I would suggest getting your codes read first.

 

the 99 ignition switch is a well known failure here, ask anyone on that thread what it did--cuts out, stops running for 2 seconds then comes back on,,happens more on turns,,,wont start
strange symptoms
I was a tech long before writing~ greatly helped translate customer words,,and then I often worked on the car myself,,so no loss of information there.. while changing hats

fuel cleaners differ in ability and how well they were used
severe prob may require more than 1 treatment
a plug can fail or have been bad,,a coil can fail,,, and plug will reveal that too
(not saying every prob needs plug ck)
Not all my suggestions are directed to one poster--they are general info for future readers

when you can tell people HOW to test these things you suggest around the TB--great!
whats a buttery fly plate anyway? sounds like a lobster dinner
how about clean the TB air plate and lube its pivot hinge (deep creep works great here)(I dont think that will fix the OP car,, but good to do for all)

Otherwise how are you helping this thread? or do you just enjoy wasting time beating on my ideas? do you need another vacation?

 

driveabilty gurus--reading OP post again,,,do we have a cold start valve?

 

what a joke you be.


sometimes it's better to pay someone to fix stuff for you, Personally if the person doesn't know the location of the part's in question then they have now business dicking with them and should hire a professional. I'll point you in the direction to fix the part but since I can not see or hear the engine on this thread it's really hard to pin point the exact part to fix, But hey lets do a plug check that will tell us all we need to know won't it?

 

That isnt true at all. How do you think most that look for DIYs learn how to fix and where to find it. I didnt know where most of the stuff went for the 6 speed swap yet i was able to do it. You wont achieve anything if you dont try

 

exactly!
this is a tech help/diy forum for acura owners
have to assume that many of them are working with a basic tool kit, or buying what you say they need
Telling/showing them how to locate and identify- test a part, is the purpose of the forum

telling them its one of several possibles, while helpful in a way, isnt exactly giving input to fix the problem

The idea here is to help others bypass the shops high prices and enable DIY fix of basic things

sometimes,,, I even play dumb on here- to allow others to answer a question,,
so as not to get called a know it all,,
Im just a- knows a bit, has smarter people to call when stuck, able to read the forum threads and other informative things,,
pretty lucky with the physic guess too~

For this cars prob, if the OP would please move your Modem a bit closer to the car.... that might help us

 

anyone else notice rcb said he would point out the TPS,, since thats his initial diagnosis,,but still didnt post the info!!
must be too busy fretting over my writings and slamming anything I have to say~

thanks rcb--but I already have a wife to give me bs and tell me Im wrong~

 

plugs tell all- but not why,,thats up to `experts in the field` to determine
they will reveal obvious probs like wet with fuel or oil,,crudded with stuff etc

 

He moved on to timing belt physics-

 

looking at a plug can tell you a lot on how the motor is running. Ever look in the back of a service manual like chilton or haynes? They have a whole page with pictures of different plugs in different conditions telling you how the motor is running and what a cause may be so you can compare.

 

what fools, ok how many miles does it take to discolor a new set of plugs? yes all the manuals have pictures show a oil fowled plug, a rich running and lean running condition look like. only problem is that have the plugs have several thousands of miles on then. But you read the plugs in what even manner you feel is best for you, and I'll continue reading plugs the correct way and that isn't by the end of the plug but where the soot ring is.

So if they are too lasy to get a manual out and locate the componet on the engine that's not my problem and I'm not going to hand feed someone pictures for the sake of posting them here if you don't want to take my suggestion on what engine components to investigate for problems then that''s their choice, guess maybe we should just keep dicking around agruing over how to read plugs. Just like in the old days some people knew how to adjust a carb others just screwed them up no mater how detail the instructions they where given. And it's still thay way today even though the designers have made it much easier to diagnos engine problems.

 

how hard is it to locate componets on an engine given that manuals and diagrams are available all over the place? how hard is it to remove a couple screws, how detailed do the instructions need to be to discribe how to remove bolts and screws? Am I to assume they have never held a nut driver, screw driver or ratchet in their hand? Sorry if I try and give the person some credit for knowing something and don't assume they are an idiot that requires their hand to be held at every step? but maybe the complainers do

 

So you are telling me if i pull 6 plugs on a motor and one is showing signs of a lean condition in that cyl i should ignore it and look at other things?

 

no that is not what I am saying, if there is enough milage on the plugs to be able to look at the tips to tell if the engine is rich or lean or burning oil or water, but if the plugs are new or have 10-15k or less on them then your not going to be able to tell squat from the plugs looking at the insulator, unless you do a proper plug check, which requires the engine to completely hot, requires the engine to be turned off while the throttle is completely wide open, then immediately inspecting the plugs by either cuting them apart or using a special tool that allows you to see the soot ring at the base of the plug, and your not going to learn that from the back of a manual showing you pictures.

 

sadly the repair manual is a bit pricey for many of our members,,
who yes, come here with litle more than a screwdriver and a question,,so we do lead them by the hand
Many go on to become respected experts on parts of the TL- from working on their own

the smart people who are looking to fix the oddball problem are not offended by noob instructions on procedure, they get the info and go to work locating the prob
for others- the torque spec is just one thing they need provided

to verify this theory- just how many have asked where is the TPS since you mentioned it!!
not one person has posted location and tech testing procedure,,guess no one has had that problem,,, so we need leadership

Part of being helpful here is to do more than speculate--its educate, share years of experience with the younger generation
If thats not what you're here for,, maybe this is the wrong forum
honda-acura world may love you!!

 

at the track,, where racers are playing with carb jetting and timing--(things we cant)
they do `hot lap` the plugs as described above-- for the purpose of seeing where the jetting has put the combustion at full throttle

THEN you see a guy with a special magnifier/microscope looking into the bottem end of the plug
and those only have 2 miles on them,,not 15k~

 

really pricey to down load a PDF file of the repair manual online from the internet..... cost me all of nothing sorry if your too poor to aford that much money.


and again your not keeping up, reading plugs with the right tools wether at the track or at home doesn't matter it's done the same way with the same tools regardless of the how long the plugs have been used, But to read the plugs as you suggest and then compairing them against pictures in the back of a book you assume they have spent money on or choose not too doesn't work unless there is significant milage on the plugs to leave a discoloration to the insulation of the plug, your not going to be able to do that on a new set of plugs, a set with 5k or a set with 10k on them without using the right tools and looking in the correct location of the plug.

I really don't see the OP asking any more questions maybe he found the isse after being pointed in the correct direction, obviously he has all ready done everyone elses suggestion and nothing has worked what other help have you provided other than to muddy the waters, NONE NOT ONE THING, so your so worried about the proper format presentation here why don't you post the throttle body and all the key information they'll need. I try and give the individual some credit and don't assume they know nothing about the topic or where the componets are located but if you feel I should talk down to them and treat them as an idoit that knows nothing about an engine Sorry that's not going to happen unless the individual speaks up and states he's lost and needs further help then I'll provide more help. Maybe we need to explain to him to put two extension together to get the plugs out, hell I read all the BS about how hard it is to get this one plug out and I just laughed at you,, I took my socket and a 12" extension and had no problems what so ever but I don't think most have type of tool selection I have either. But regardsless it's very easy to remove even without the fancy tools and two extension are not required.

 

Sooo- exactly where's that TPS, & how do we service it? I'd like to benefit from your suggestion, in the event my TL develops the problem the OP described?? Something other than general advice, specific to the TL, is what I'd like to see.

 

tld,,I really dont think its going to happen from rcb2000
He doesnt actually KNOW

he only wants to jam on mine, or whoever is next to offer advice that counters his position
regardless of the fact he has no personal knowledge of the suggested part/repair in question,,therefor can offer no real help

as for my comments on plugs,,it was a side note which rcb decided to run with as a main topic..all I wanted to know was how old etc,,
a 99 hard starts,,where do you start the diagnosis,,plugs, fuel, ignition switch!!

I have not heard from anyone here that making a detailed thread/procedure is talking down to them in any way
Its providing real life info they can use

Dont know about pdf downloads- things have changed,, now acura will sell you time on their web service!!

the 6 and 3 inch extensions are in the average tool kit, and make life easy for noobs to plug change,,many of then have never seen the trick bolts for the coils!!
use what you have, but work smarter-- not harder-- when able