Exhaust Gas Regulator (EGR) blamed for tranny problems

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Old 12-05-2005 | 08:24 AM
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Exhaust Gas Regulator (EGR) blamed for tranny problems

Did a search and the only thing that came back was someone asking for help without reply.

Went to the dealer to have them check out the erratic shifting rpms (I know all about the tranny issue, on my second tranny already), told them it was all symptoms of the tranny failure I experienced with the first one and it wasn't as bad yet. Just wanted them to open up the tranny and take a pic to see if the discoloration was there and inspect the tranny itself to see if it needed repairs again.

1st thing I am being told is the tranny is fine and the EGR is out of specs and it will cost me $400 to have that and the FI cleaned out. Problem is the EGR is cloggin up the engine and chocking it out.

My question to them: If the tranny is fine then why does it make a loud noise when shifting from park to Reverse, and if the engine is being chocked out then why is the RPM going to 5k when I am decelerating from 40 mph (in auto mode), then a hard downshift to the next gear is experienced. My non-mechanic trained brain suggests that if the engine is being chocked out, the rpm would die off and teh engine would "cough" rather than shooting up to 5k from 2 or 3....then the next back-pedalling answer from the service manager is "your car is out of warranty anyways it would cost you money for us to go in and inspect the transmission!"
My reply : "So you guys didn't even perform the camera inspection of the gear?"
Manager:" No, we hook it up to the computer and test drove it and it shifts fine"
me: "1st, you ought to know that Acura extended the warranty for the tranny on this model to 100k! second-i told you it has not completely failed yet and only does it when the vehicle has been operating for a while (i.e. hot )"
Manager:"I'm sorry I can't help you here, Acura won't let us do it until the tranny fails completely!, and since you already had your tranny replaced we cannot do anything (inspection wise) until the tranny literally craps out!"
me: "WOW! you are telling me that with a known problem, and a known recall, which this vehicle has been outfitted with a new tranny already, acura's policy is to not inspect any new problems until the vehicle fails completely? So when my wife and kids are driving the car on the freeway and the tranny fails which then leads to a possible major accident...see where I am getting at? oh btw, there will be records of me coming to this dealership to complain of tranny problems and request from me to have the tranny inspected with you stating that you will not do anything until it fails completely!"
him:"I suggest you call acura directly!"

WOW is what I have to say. not something I expect from Honda/Acura...I've owned hondas and acura since 1991!
Sorry for another tranny post but it was amusing to hear a new twist to the saga..."the EGR is causing your vehicle to shift erratically!"

Just me ranting
John
Old 12-05-2005 | 09:34 AM
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i feel for you, i am sorry to say that this world is turning into corporate america trying to pinch every single penny no matter what and here is another classic case of some dipsh.. not giving a damn and you were the ultimate example. your doing the right thing by documenting it, and go to another acura dealership if possible and see what they say, as i am curious!!
Old 12-05-2005 | 09:59 AM
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Rick,

I'll keep you updated, but at this point I am not even going to another dealership and straight to calling acura's hotline and see what they can say about this. Also, nice avatar...Is that a Zx10R?
John
Old 12-05-2005 | 03:20 PM
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Well for starters, the tranhy problems cant be looked at by a camera. Yes they did that for the oil jet recall kit, but the failures we all have cant be inspected. There is no way to open up the tranny either to inspect. If they were to go that far they would be rebuiolding it, which the dealers arent supposed to do nor will they, they will replace it.

A clogged EGR doent "choke" the engine per say to make it want to die, but it will cause teh other sensors to over react making a idle problem thats very eratic, which may be causing it to seem like the tranny is acting up. Best bet would be to have the dealer Plug it in and read the codes to see if it is infact bad. As for not spending the money on the EGR, there are Instructions on how to clean out the ports that are causing the egr issues. I posted awhile back with pics on how to clean it. Just do a search
Old 12-06-2005 | 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Well for starters, the tranhy problems cant be looked at by a camera. Yes they did that for the oil jet recall kit, but the failures we all have cant be inspected. There is no way to open up the tranny either to inspect. If they were to go that far they would be rebuiolding it, which the dealers arent supposed to do nor will they, they will replace it.

A clogged EGR doent "choke" the engine per say to make it want to die, but it will cause teh other sensors to over react making a idle problem thats very eratic, which may be causing it to seem like the tranny is acting up. Best bet would be to have the dealer Plug it in and read the codes to see if it is infact bad. As for not spending the money on the EGR, there are Instructions on how to clean out the ports that are causing the egr issues. I posted awhile back with pics on how to clean it. Just do a search
I have no idea what they have to do to inspect the tranny, but when I originally called the dealer to ask them about the problems I was experiencing, they told me that they have a little camera that they can stick up the tranny and take a pic of the gear to figure out if it is discolored and determine if it has gone bad due to oil starvation...I believe that would be under the oil jet kit you mentioned. Also that inspection would allow them to determine the status of the tranny. That's what they told me and that's what I am holding them to. But if you are telling me that there is no way to determine a bad tranny then it's not what I thought I read from all the "tranny" posts.
As for the EGR issue, I was quoting directly what the serv mgr told me, and I'll see about cleaning it out if there is a 'how to' post. I'll do a search.

thanks
John
Old 12-06-2005 | 01:40 PM
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There are 2 completly different problems that our trannies have. 1 is what teh oil jet kit is for. Before they install it they inspect teh 2nd gear shaft for heat discoloration. if any is seen they replace the tranny. if not the oiljet kit is installed. The 2nd problem cant be inspected but is the problem we all have with the failures. The oiljet kit does nothing to resolve this issue. this issue is just a poor design of parts.

here is a little diy with a few pics. There are more out there. Its a very easy thing to do if you are any bit mechanically inclined.

https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/freedom-begins-t-minus-3-hours-127554/
Old 12-07-2005 | 09:41 AM
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That makes sense, thanks for the link, I'll work on it this weekend. Shouldn't be that hard from the looks of it.
thanks
john
Old 12-21-2005 | 07:29 PM
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R1flyer.

If the EGR is clogged, the vehicle will "shudder" at around 30-40mph. They're is a TSB on the problem. It's very common on the MDX's and has happened with TL's. The shudder absolutely does feel like a trans. problem. I've also found myself that vehicles with broken front motor mounts feel the most severe affect because they're is not much dampening on the engine as it shudders like that. So it really feels bad.

You really have to understand things.. if the tech cannot duplicate your problem, he cannot order a transmission for you. Honda inspects every transmission that comes back to them for RD and to see if the trans. really had a problem in the first place. If that tech said YEAH ITS A BAD TRANS, REPLACE IT..Then found out to be an EGR problem..Honda is going to be like "Whoa dude, this trans. is fine...Mr. Acura dealership, your going to pickup the 1500$ bill for this transmission because nothing was wrong with it."

Then the tech is then responsible.

So im sorry if you feel as though you've been ripped off, but that's the rules. Im sure you apply to the rules and regulations at YOUR workplace simply because of the fact that you want to KEEP your job.

So put it this way, if the tech could not duplicate the concern. Your going to have to take the car back to them when you can duplicate it. Problems never get better, they get worse. So just take the car back when you can duplicate it.
Old 12-21-2005 | 07:32 PM
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the oil jet kit does not apply to remanufactured transmissions...If a remanufactured transmission fails.. MORE THAN LIKELY its not going to be the 2nd gear as a culprit.
Old 12-22-2005 | 08:34 AM
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loud-whispers,

Thanks for the info but what you failed to see in my first post is that I complained about the transmission acting up as it did during the first transmission failure, most noticeably is the rpm shooting up on its own without me a)manually downshifting b)acceleratind hard...much like when you downshift to a lower gear while the engine speed is still at a higher rpm. then a brief time after it would correct itself to the usual 2-3k rpm. This surge cannot be due to an EGR 'chocking' the engine, or a 'shudder'.
I did the EGR ports cleaning as mentioned by fttsymsl and yes, it was in need of cleaning but noticed nothing different.
As I mentioned before, I don't know what inspections are required to diagnose a bad tranny and only went off what they did with the first tranny and what the most recent serv mngr told me before I brought the vehicle in.
I am peeved at the fact that they ony hooked up the vehicle to an onboard computer and test drove it for a short distance ( they called me within 1 hour of me dropping it off) to say it is okay. You are correct with the techs being accountable to Honda and their dealership for an accurate estimate, but I would argue that with a national known problem on a poor/faulty designed part, they owe it to their customers to have due diligence with the way they diagnose the problem.
You are correct about the problem is only going to get worse; so, should I have to endure the in-between nuances of s@#tty driving experience to when it completely is F@#ed? And worse yet, should I go on my own business and hope that it does not fail at an inopportune time with my family on board? I am only comparing to when I brought the vehicle with the original tranny to a different dealer who was more concerned about those issues than whether or not he is going to have to eat up $1500 of repairs on a known problem.
You are right about the idea that I would want to follow all the rules and regulations at my work place to keep my job, because my job involves people dying if I don't follow the rules and regulations...I think the dealer should be concerned about my welfare and that of my family instead of how much profit margins he is going to report to get a bigger bonus check at the end of the year. Sounds to me like they are no different than HMO doctors not wanting to do a costly procedures to diagnose a patient correctly because the HMO may or may not pay them for that procedure...

On a last note, I think fsttymsl is correct that it boils down to just a poor design and I am really F@#$ed until the tranny craps itself completely...at which case if myself or family is in any danger, I would sue the shit out of Acura and that particular dealership.
Old 12-22-2005 | 09:10 AM
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I would start out by talking to the dealer again. and tell them that its showing the same symptoms of your last failure, and you want the issue resolved. I would also contact Acura Client Services. Talk to them about the issue.

Also the newer trannies that they have been sticking in have different parts (so hopefully they will last now)
Old 12-22-2005 | 02:55 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
I would start out by talking to the dealer again. and tell them that its showing the same symptoms of your last failure, and you want the issue resolved. I would also contact Acura Client Services. Talk to them about the issue.

Also the newer trannies that they have been sticking in have different parts (so hopefully they will last now)

Hey Kris, thanks for the link on that EGR cleaning, it was pretty painless. I did call them and explained the whole situation, they are going to call me back soon. I'll update the situation.

John
Old 12-22-2005 | 04:05 PM
  #13  
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good luck and keep us updated!
Old 12-22-2005 | 07:13 PM
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Talking

Originally Posted by r1flyer
loud-whispers,

Thanks for the info but what you failed to see in my first post is that I complained about the transmission acting up as it did during the first transmission failure, most noticeably is the rpm shooting up on its own without me a)manually downshifting b)acceleratind hard...much like when you downshift to a lower gear while the engine speed is still at a higher rpm. then a brief time after it would correct itself to the usual 2-3k rpm. This surge cannot be due to an EGR 'chocking' the engine, or a 'shudder'.
I did the EGR ports cleaning as mentioned by fttsymsl and yes, it was in need of cleaning but noticed nothing different.
As I mentioned before, I don't know what inspections are required to diagnose a bad tranny and only went off what they did with the first tranny and what the most recent serv mngr told me before I brought the vehicle in.
I am peeved at the fact that they ony hooked up the vehicle to an onboard computer and test drove it for a short distance ( they called me within 1 hour of me dropping it off) to say it is okay. You are correct with the techs being accountable to Honda and their dealership for an accurate estimate, but I would argue that with a national known problem on a poor/faulty designed part, they owe it to their customers to have due diligence with the way they diagnose the problem.
You are correct about the problem is only going to get worse; so, should I have to endure the in-between nuances of s@#tty driving experience to when it completely is F@#ed? And worse yet, should I go on my own business and hope that it does not fail at an inopportune time with my family on board? I am only comparing to when I brought the vehicle with the original tranny to a different dealer who was more concerned about those issues than whether or not he is going to have to eat up $1500 of repairs on a known problem.
You are right about the idea that I would want to follow all the rules and regulations at my work place to keep my job, because my job involves people dying if I don't follow the rules and regulations...I think the dealer should be concerned about my welfare and that of my family instead of how much profit margins he is going to report to get a bigger bonus check at the end of the year. Sounds to me like they are no different than HMO doctors not wanting to do a costly procedures to diagnose a patient correctly because the HMO may or may not pay them for that procedure...

On a last note, I think fsttymsl is correct that it boils down to just a poor design and I am really F@#$ed until the tranny craps itself completely...at which case if myself or family is in any danger, I would sue the shit out of Acura and that particular dealership.

Well, you are correct in a way. It depends on the dealership. Most techs play by the rules. Some don't. For some technicians, it depends on how high volume the dealership is. Too much other work, some tech's try to stay away from the transmissions to get their hands on "the good stuff" aka "gravy work".. well, in my dealership..we are DEAD OF WORK. And honestly, i really could give a rats ass if there's nothing wrong with a transmission that a customer complains of. It's GOING TO GET A NEW TRANNY!! If you get what im trying to say.. I don't care if it was in the week before to have a trans. installed, im going to write it up as the trans. was defective from the reman. company. So i can collect 6 hours of warranty time for a job that only takes me 2 hours. ;P

More than likely, if a reman tranny does fail. things you check.

Fluid level is #1
check for leaks.
alot of techs "flat rate" these transmissions and rip the axel seals open so they start leaking.

other than that..i dont know.

SO dude, im sure you are not a stupid guy.
Take an afternoon off of work, go into an empty parking lot or somewhere CLOSE to the dealership and DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO!
Old 02-13-2006 | 12:44 AM
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Phesto's Avatar
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^^ are you trying to say he should make the tranny fail himself by beating the hell out of the car---Good Idea
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