Nicks098

I had a bad misfire problem a while back, CEL came on, misfire codes, i replaced all spark plugs (NGK iridium) and all 6, yes, all 6 ignition coils (coil packs whatever you choose to call them), ive cleaned the EGR valve out, seafoamed the engine thru the Brake Booster line and gas tank, the right way... still misfiring ( i think its a misfire, it feels like a misfire, a short quick jump in the car/motor when im idling either in park or on the brake at a red light / stop sign... No CEL though ) do i just replace the EGR valve next ? any one else having this problem? is it deff a misfire? your is priceless thanks guys

Nicks098

*** could any sensors cause this as well?

01tl4tl

A: we cant seafoam thru the brake booster line,,doesnt work for us

Do USE the master vac port at TB, where there is a nipple coming out of TB area, small hose with squeeze type clamp

you need to remove the intake manifold and clean the egr ports and passage of it.
the valve is not the problem, restricted flow is

service the TB while its off, lube throttle cables etc
there are many threads on this subject

did you reset the ecu by removing CLOCK fuse on passenger end of dash for a minute?
Why 6 coils--multi misfire code? that usually just 1 coil
did it happen after a plug change? coils easily damaged then

Nicks098

i didnt know that, the brake booster seafoam wont hurt will it?? and i replaced all 6 because 3 of them where literally damaged,after having the code read, changed one at a time, as i pulled them out 3 of them looked like grease was splashed on them... @ the same time i did the spark plugs too, we were gentle lol, didnt slam the coils down or anything, the car isnt beat on, i drive it like i want it to last me a while with minimal repair costs lol makes sense? lol but yea i want to clean the ports and manifold i think me and you had this convo before but i just havent gotten to it yet, car drives good for a little while and i just say ok ill wait to clean it, cant wait anymore this weekend i want to try and get this done... (((( quick question, one of the bolts on my intake manifold is like snapped off, as if it was like over tightened and twisted off, thats how it was when i bought it i havent touched it yet, that wont affect anything will it?

01tl4tl

whoa you just found a major problem

you can replace the bolt or stud when manifold is off the car for egr service
any imbalance in the bolt torque on the manifold = leak of air/vacuum into engine
causes roughness, poor idle, bad mileage, overall funky running

all the bolts need to be there and set equally tight,,iirc the spec range is 14-16 ft lbs but i set everything exactly the same, or close as possible with torque wrench

those with digital readout wrench can get them all exactly the same

01tl4tl

buy a new TB to manifold gasket and IACV COVER gasket
everything else should be reusable,,may need a top cover gasket
NOTE critical you put gaskets on with correct side UP
any you remove, place in the same direction on the workbench

that top gasket will look right,,, and be upside down!
blocks a critical port and you have to take it back apart,,,dededeee
always line up that top gasket to the upper part, if all is well then install on head in correct direction

Nicks098

The stud is still in there, where could I buy a new stud?.. And bolt...acura dealer I'm guessin? Or would a parts store have it.. I had nooo idea this was a problem.. Friday I plan on doing this, hopefully the weather is nice, gonna clean out the egr ports and manifold, hopefully replace the stud, and get this baby riding right again..I appreciate all the help..I'm going to check back in if I run into another "speed bump" in this road lol

Nicks098

is the TB to Manifold gasket also listed as a TB to spacer gasket??

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

to 01tl4tl's point...check out this thread...
look to upgrade while you're in there (might as well IMO).

check out post #40...it's my pictures of the egr port and cleaning it out with deep creep seafom.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/p2r-throttle-body-spacer-thermal-gaske-overstock-sale-excelerate-performance-827383/

01tl4tl

leaf blower to dry manifold--great suggestion !

do rotate the manifold in every possible direction to get water out as you dry it
DO NOT want any water inside once installed, very bad for engine on startup!

01tl4tl

tb to spacer gasket sounds right
talk to a human wherever you are shopping, tell them what you are doing and look at
their diagram

parts store should have any studs and nuts you need
take the other one out to match up at the store

Use `double nut` method to remove and install studs
thats running 2 nuts down the threads a little, then use 2 wrenches to tighten the nuts against each other
Now use 1 wrench on lower nut and unscrew the stud
works great on install too, use top nut to tighten stud, remove both- install manifold

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Thanks man...props from a forum car god...

Yes, I concur, blow in every possible direction, I also took off those two end plates and blew air in there to be a 100% sure there was no water left in any crevice.

Two nut method can work or if you have a decent pressure plier, that'll work too.

Good luck, bud!

Nicks098

thank you so much guys, im on my way out the door now to buy what i need for the job, im gonna attemp this when i get back, both of you have saved me time & money.. if i run into any problems, you'll be hearing from me lol! ill post when its finiished, thanks again guys

01tl4tl

I dont suggest using Vise Grip type pliers to remove a stud-- if you can do it with the double nut method
Reason: metal shavings !!!! vise grips WILL cause them,, and they fall into the worst open port possible

Note: the intake manifold is removed at this point- leaving direct access to the engine OPEN and waiting for bad news to fall in
Even using rags to cover everything- the chance is still there,,one shaving can destroy a cylinder

IF you can do it right, do so
If you are totally stuck on removal, use vise grips BUT be very aware!!
Do NOT use vise grips to install the new stud

Nicks098

yea i like the double nut method better anyway, seems safer,.. i went to autozone, pepboys, advanced auto and strauss, NONE have the gaskets i need =( lol a couple of the guys told me to buy the liquid gasket stuff, the honda sealer or whatever its called but i didnt buy it, i wasnt sure how it would hold up with that kind of heat, although i have used it when i replaced my oil pan before, and its holding great...anyway, would u know roughly how much it would cost to just take it somewhere for this job?? im just curious i want to make sure its done right, the first time, and since this is my first time doing it, im alittle nervous lol...

01tl4tl

expect 1.5 - 2 hours on the manifold removal -egr port cleaning aspect,,
15-30 minutes for stud replacement
another 30 minutes to clean IACV and TB air plate
15 minutes for throttle cable lube

3+ hours x 100-150 per hour = 300-450!!! for a job you can easily diy
and if you have no tools, can buy all you need for under 50 dollars,,
then be able to fix other things
All while doing a better job than most techs
take your time- do it the very best,,not the minimum it needs to work,,,because its yours~

01tl4tl

iacv cover gasket might get damaged, so having a replacement on hand is wise
same with TB to manifold,,
if torn in removal = no amount of honda sealer will fix the air leak
(but its awesome stuff on new paper gaskets, never dries)

dealer will have both these

Nicks098

ok, you win lol.. i get so fustrated when it comes to the car lol...nothing goes as planned lol cant wait for it to be over with.. i live close to a Honda dealer, think they would have the gasket & stud??

01tl4tl

stud yes,,by visual matchup
gasket maybe--would have to find a model with the same throttle body
Ask if they can get one for you,,many are related to an acura dealer who will bring parts over

the whole job at a casual pace should take far less than the numbers I gave-
which are my best guess as to current shop rates/times,
no job gets billed less than 15 minutes- even if it only takes 5

01tl4tl

make sure you have a torque wrench accurate at 16 foot pounds
thats the intake manifold bolt torque
the TB bolts are less, maybe 10-12 iirc. ck diy,,but dont overtighten those for sure!

Nicks098

yea figured that, im gonna swing by there tomorrow hopefully leave with gaskets and a stud lol.. and deffinity, i will have a torque wrench... i appreciate it.. "Thanks" button only says so much lol, u need cash rewards points or something lol

01tl4tl

I should post my xmas wish list

01tl4tl

harbor frieght tools or sears for decent torque wrench 15-25$
hft has a big sale this weekend

Nicks098

lmao @ the xmas wish list !... just got back from honda dealer (2 different ones) both told me they cant look up the parts because its an acura not "honda"... no gaskets or stud, they said if i found the part # they could order it.. which sucks, id rather order it myself and save the money... i know i can just google it and find parts, do you have any preffered website i should order from?.. nothing is ever simple with me lol dropped car off for an oil change, turned into a new oil pan due to a stripped drain bolt, they jammed a larger bolt in to hold me over... i was pissed lol, never again, change my own oil for now on

01tl4tl

they owe you the oil pan job for that !!
agree never let any quickchange place do the oil, pay the neighbor kid,,whatever it takes

any parts store will have a bin of studs and nuts
honda parts guys are locked into their own little world of numbers~

see our Vendor list at top of pages- several dealers offer a great price for us.
with all this hassle, the gaskets will probably be fine,,just to mess with you~

Nicks098

i took it to meineki, they tried telling me it happens all the time over time, im like bullshit, if there was something wrong with it, why not tell me the last time i brought it in.. after a 20 min half arguement, i left empty handed, ordered a new pan and did it myself for 150$ total on pan drain plug and sealant.. sucks but thats life lol.. and yea i was in pepboys and seen the studs just wasnt sure what size to get.. loews/home depot has studs too idk why i didnt think of that earlier.. the "misfire" problem is getting bad, stronger and more frequent...just drove it, every time i stopped its *hic-cuping* lol i hate it, no loss of power when i drive it feels fine, only at idle whether it be park or braking... driving me nuts... & thanks man, thanks alot =\ going to have gaskets everywhere for no reason lol!

Nicks098

i went on the "Acura of Orange Park" website.. found everything i need, came out to about 25$.. 1. Gasket, in. Manifold (upper) 2. Bolt, Stud (6x12) 3. Nut Cap (6mm) 4. Gasket, Throttle Body 5. Gasket B, Throttle Body (nippon Leakless) 6. Gasket, Rotary air Control Valve...... Now # 4 & 5.... which do i need? both just to be safe?.. #4 is the manifold to spacer, #5 is the TB to spacer....

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Awesome, man...nothing like that "Eureka" feeling!

Nicks098

Ok ! SOOO ive finally did this, i cleaned out the egr ports and manifold, the top cover was filthy with carbon as well. cleaned the EGR valve and IACV, throttle body was cleaned, all gaskets replaced, ran seafoam thru half tank of gas, fixed the broken stud!.. got it all done on thursday, ive given it a few days,.. welll the problem is persisting, kinda never even fully went away,.. it still feels like its "misfiring/hiccuping or something" ! =( what do i do next, tomorrow im gonna buy a new pvc valve, only a couple bucks & its probly over due for a change anyways.. although the problem is still here, i do feel a difference in acceleration after cleaning the egr ports and everything, very pleased with that... but wtf is causing the misfires? loll & NO CEL at all, no codes or anything..

01tl4tl

did you reset the ecu by pulling the CLOCK fuse for a minute?

valves adjusted, right plugs? run that half tank of seafoam thru already?

Nicks098

yes sir, seafoamed the half tank last week, just waiting to hit a half tank again to run the second bottle through it, reset the ECU, as always when i do anything to the engine, as far as valves adjusted, no not after i cleaned it out, they were adjusted when i had the coils & plugs replaced though... & the plugs are ngk iridium BUT, lol i couldnt wait to sign on here and update what i think it is lol, so i rolled my window down alittle bit, turned off the radio and just listened at a stop sign on my way home from work today, im no mechanic so dont make fun of me lol!, it honestly sounds something exaust related ? like its "putt'in" lol.. idk how to propely explain this,.. it feels like a misfire, but its got a sound to it...is that part of the misfire? lol!!... ive never actually stopped and just listened to it for a period of time.. its not as frequent as it was before i cleaned it, but hear and there say every 1 out of 3 stops, it idles bad.. before was every stop...its starting to become more fustrating/annoying than anything... im to the point of buying a new EGR valve soon, ive heard it could be fuel pumps and all kinds of things from different people ( nobody who has actually checked the car out though just opinions), there is absolutely no other symptoms of anything while the car is running, idle or driving, strong, picks up well, shifts smooth.. ( lastly, could a dirty pcv or pvc valve affect the car this much?)

01tl4tl

yes it could, can even cause oil to blow out the rear main seal!
internal pressures not released = bad things

does the egr valve arm operate?

ck for exhaust leaks especially near rear manifold, small connector pipe breaks there

possible: burnt valve from broken intake manifold stud/vac leak?
done a cylinder leakdown test since the valve adjust
how bout a compression check?

Nicks098

ok, going to pick up the pcv valve tomorrow then, those are cheap correct?...and no, no checks or tests for burnt valve or compression =/ im slackin', i know lol...and how do i tell if the egr arm is operating?? i shook it in every direction, and i cant hear anything (a slight sound if i shake real hard lol) i was told to shake it to listen if i can hear the door moving?

01tl4tl

the egr arm needs to be lubed and moves easily

the pcv should shake like a paint can, under 10 bucks- easier to replace than clean once its removed

you did remove valve from manifold during the egr port cleaning right?

Nicks098

yes i did.. and yea i couldnt make anything move on my EGR valve =( honestly, which part moves?... and i just purchased the pcv valve.. ill put it on in the morning, Rain + no garage = Not Fun lol

Nicks098

Update*... =( so the EGR ports are cleaned out, EGR valve cleaned, IACV cleaned, TB cleaned, throttle cables lubed up, PCV valve changed today,, reset ECU by removed Fuse 13 back up clock, stilllll effin misfiring.... well i figured out today that when the car is in park, it idles fine, quiet, smooth, lovely.... when i put it in D5 (obviously for normal everyday driving lol) it begins to misfire..hard misfires, really feel it alot in the car.. UGH! lol does that narrow it down at all?... next paycheck im just gonna suck it up and buy the EGR valve.. its rusted looking, been cleaned numerous times, cant figure out how to make the arm move lmao, it wont hurt to replace it....

Also, when i cleaned out the intake manifold and EGR ports and everything, should i have replaced the tubes/lines as well?? i was told dont worry about it the hoses are fine..he didnt actually inspect them, just told me "nah the hoses are fine, constant flow, they shouldnt be clogged".. which sounded logical lol, but isnt true becuase ive seen hoses clogged before..

idk what else to do about this problem.. do i replace the EGR valve and see what happens? and go from there? or should i do something else in the meantime to see?... thnks again

01tl4tl

the operating arm of the egr valve should move freely
if its rusted stuck -replace asap-aftermarket ok if its cheaper than OE
ck online prices of local parts stores

the valve opens at just above idle and stays open until full throttle- where it closes again
Operation at either of those rpms would make it run poorly

Need to see if this is a trans related engine drag issue, or an actual ignition misfire or a detonation issue
A scanner that does live reading while driving would be helpful
Or a shop with a scope that will do same readings

are there any private owner repair shops,,honda/racer type shops in your phone book?
look under auto repair- performance

compression and leak down test are appropriate if electrical all test good
How are all the small grounds from engine to frame? rusted like egr valve?
Where does this car live--weather? salt?

01tl4tl

it wont hurt to ck any hoses involved--
sure, its supposed to be constant flow,,and other type cars dont need the egr ports cleaned,,soooooo
go ahead and ck them yourself
If tech didnt do it--thats being lax on diagnosis
suspect the strangest things!
and the last things changed,,one can be bad right out of the box

and finally a reminder that codes are CLUES not diagnosis in themself
sometimes you have to put 2+3 together with some insight = 8

Nicks098

i deff understand the codes arent everything, i dont have the CEL on though, codes can still be read?... my local autozone has them for $70, which i can live with, cheaper than OE... & i live at the jersey shore, Seaside Heights, NJ...cant get much more saltier than this =( Rust Heaven lol... car is pretty clean under the hood though not very rusty at all... few pieces of metal little rusted, EGR valve is deffinitly stock still, looks 20 years old..

i just recently found out the motor mounts have vacuum lines running to them?? crazy lol i havent checked them yet, but my motor mounts were changed right before i bought the car, idk if the lines were reconnected, it wasnt done at a dealer/shop, was done by the guy i got it from (his friend did it).. tomorrow im gonna be under that hood searching for everything and anything

Next question is, can an aftermarket intake be messing with the Air/Gas ratio ? causing it to be to lean, or to "unlean" <- LOL!... its just a cheap ebay intake, you can hear it loud, sounds like a turbo lol..almost like too much air ?..lol.. also my Ignition Coils are NOT OEM... they arent cheap Ebay coil packs, got them from pepboys, but the fact that they arent OEM shouldnt cause this right? i dont go racing my car around lol, friends hate me cause i baby my car lol..
I added that second can of seafoam to the gas tank today, saved a small amount and added it to the crank case this time, probly around a 1/4 of the can... after work > store = no misfires...store > home = NO misfires lol.. PCV valve worked ?! lol i changed it last night....the pcv valve was stuck, no rattle to it at all.. gunked up...

Sorry for such the long Post.. lol.. my antifreeze was SUPER low as well, filled that up last night too.. Im just going to check for any leaks, cracked hoses, over the weekend.. tuesday im buying the new EGR, i should just do it today/tomorrow, but i might need that $$ this weekend =( lol 20 years old w/ good job + parents w/o job = Must Have Reserve $ at all times lmao..

01tl4tl

low from res or rad itself? ck rad cap for worn seal,,10$
stuck pcv? wow thats really bad--will cause a lot of problems
wonder if it has oe motor mounts?- front and rear are vac boosted- ck that out
coils no prob on aftermarket

you can run seafoam in oil for 2-4 weeks no sweat, then change when warm-
15 minutes freeway will make it hot enough so all the crud is liquified and drains out of the pan
Because the pcv was gunked bad- I would run a little more seafoam in the oil and defintely put 200 miles on it before change.
Drives over 30 minutes really improve the cleaning action

intake tube is not causing prob, manifold air pressure sensor calculates allowable fuel to air ratio and tells the injectors what do do..the air temp changes air density/pressure
thats why we run cold air in,, as much as possible

make sure its an obdi II (2) code reader..harbor freight has it on sale for $99 so Im suspicious of the price quoted to you