BarbaraBoston

Hi all

Great forum! Looking to see if some of you experts can offer advice to me.

I have a 2000 TL that has been awesome. I did have the recalled transmission at 91K but that was fine. It now has 105K. Suddenly, the CEL and TCS lights came on (at the same time), and even more strange, at low speeds (under 25) the throttle is going off and on (if you put it in neutral you can hear it) - does not do this at higher speeds and is intermittent as is the TCS light.. I took to my regular mechanic who said it was code P0325 knock sensor. He didn't want to replace the sensor yet, so he turned it off. Of course it came back on along with the symptoms pretty quickly.

I then took it to dealer - big mistake (I know you know this!). They said two codes P0505 and P0325 and said they needed to replace idle air control motor and knock wiring harness (there was some mice activity they said). I paid more than 1K for this.

You can guess what happened, less than 75 miles later the same exact symptoms occurred. I took it back to dealer, and now they say its a new code. P1361 TDC Sensor 1 Noise. They want $349 to even diagnose what that means because they say it is related to something on the timing belt (this was replaced at 91K by a different dealer where I lived at the time). I was outraged and went and picked up the car. They were so awful to me, claimed I had driven the car 500 miles and this was something new (the paperwork shows less than 75) etc.

The status now is that the lites are off, but I have zero confirdence they will not come back on (along with the throttle issue). I was going to sell the car because I bought a new one, but my state has a lemon law for used cars and I don't want this to come back to me.

My options - take back to original dealer I like and trust to see what they thing the code P1361 is, and whether this is a 1K fix or a $200 fix (It is 90 minutes away so not looking forward to this) OR just donate the car.

I am going to complain to Acura - never in my life has a dealer asked me to pay $349 to re-check their work. Such a shame, the car is a beauty.

Any advice for me? I am not mechanical at all.

Thanks!

acutee

Hey, sorry to hear your problems. I dont know what to suggest, but I know its not easy to find an honest shop; or worst, more problems coming out of the woodwork once they laid their hands on the car.

I am surprised your state does not allow to sell it 'as is' condition. if you are nice enuf to list the known problems then there is nothing to claim against you. I am sure someone will snatch it 'as is' for 1k. Find private shop where they can get remanufactured parts or used parts for cheaper repair.

01tl4tl

when you say recalled transmission do you mean it finally got the recall installed oil jet kit and sent it on down the road?--
or they found damage from excess heat on that inspection and gave you a free transmission replacement under warranty?

licensed car dealers are the ones subject to selling cars with known defects and failing to disclose problems = lemon laws

private sellers/buyers are always on your own

copy your documents showing miles, names of who dealt with, etc.
and call 1 800 382 2238 x5
thats acura corp headquarters- ask for a case file to be opened and a manager to call you back,,the phone people have no knowledge or authority- they answer phones- dont worry what they say

This is assuming you dealt with the service manager- and not just a service writer- whose job is to lie and sell
manager needs to know whats gone on, and where you you are at with them, and failed diagnosis and repairs at great expense...
what will it take to make you happy- they need a stated goal

corp will call the dealer for their side- then call you- usually have you take the car back in for diagnosis then work out a low or no cost deal

that said--you have to realize if you had mice living in the wiring- that can translate to many other problems--who knows what they were up to

at this point you need a good diagnosis-

Paul112

I have no idea how to solve your problem but I thought I'd pass along a link to a web site that summarizes state lemon law.

http://statelemonlaws.com/index2.html

For example, from the section pertaining to Massachusetts

Massachusetts has a rather extensive used car lemon law. It protects the consumer whether the car was purchased from a dealer or a private party (although different regulations apply).

(Sorry about the BOLD but it won't turn off)

01tl4tl

click the B on taskbar line of thread post area to change bold

to clarify these lemon laws--example: 15 days `out of service` is 15 total days in shop with no resolution to one problem-- with repeated attempts and no clue as to whats really wrong
Sometimes its 15 work days in a row--so 3 weeks in shop all at one time, with no resolution

If you disclose in writing any known issues and the buyer accepts `as is`--then you can sell anything you want with no hassles
Not telling someone is a totally different issue

01tl4tl

iirc there was a TDC sensor failure on another TL with mice prob in wires- very recently

BarbaraBoston

Thanks so much for the advice! On the transmission - I brought it in for a symptom that felt like a caliper sticking (this had happened before) and when they looked at it, the paperwork says they found a leak and worn differential. They put in a new transmission (rebuilt not actually new) with a new serial number noted and said it was part of the recall. Originally when I got the recall notice about a year before, I brought it in and they said it was fine at the time.

Yes, I realize there could be more mice damage. I am fine with paying for damage, I am not fine with the feeling that these guys are guessing. For example, the service writer told me the tech had NEVER seen this code before and had to call Techline. That seems odd to me. And they were more than willing to diagnose the issue the first time for no charge, why do I have to pay $349? The service writer said that they "think" "it could be" related to the timing built. Also it really bothers me that the service writer lied and said I had driven 480 miles according to the paperwork and someone new has happened, when clearly it was less than 75.

I just never had these issues before with the acura dealer where I bought the car.

I will open a service case with Acura.

Yes, I live in Mass. The lemon law most definitely applies to private sellers also. If something breaks in the first 30 days the buyer can make you buy it back or make you pay for the repair. Because of all of the issues with transmissions, it would freak me out to sell the car, have it be the transmission (it's 2 months past the 3 years warranty) and have to pay 2500 for a new one. Plus I think it is super bad karma to sell a car like that.

Also, one other thing. My BIL has an accord, had the same exact issues. It was the throttle sensor, and cost 1200 to repair. He purchased the extended warranty and was super thankful because he had the transmission go at 80K also.

BarbaraBoston

Also, you are right that I can disclose and and everything I think could be wrong, but I will never sell the car. If I say I don't know what is wrong, could be anything, maybe timing built, etc. - I just foresee too many possible issues that can come back and bite me. Not to mention that no one would buy the car.

01tl4tl

its not a timing belt problem
it may be a sensor that detects the crankshaft postion at top dead center
so the igintion fires correctly
If its getting bad info, its not going to run right

have to keep cking the codes as you clean and test pieces along the way

diagnosis fee- probably want 2-3 hours electrical diagnostic fee-
its the service writers job to get money from your bank to theirs
Speak directly with the service MANAGER- they need a chance to resolve the problem before corp gets involved--
corp calls the manager to see whats wrong--they hate getting customer complaint calls that havnt gone thru a manager
service writers are often plain wrong- are not former techs- cant explain what the real tech said -or merely wrote on invoice--
it might say drivabilty diagnostic need 2.5 hours, has wiring damage from mice

what gets me is they charge a large diagnosis,, plus to fix it--when diagnosing led you to the actual problem!!

BarbaraBoston

> its not a timing belt problem. it may be a sensor that detects the crankshaft postion at top dead center

Yes this is what he said but said it was next to the timing belt, but he basically said they had to pull the engine to see this. Makes sense that he is just trying to get money from me.

I will call the service manager. I just have no confidence in them at this point. I definitely do not want this idiot Joe who lied to me to handle my car.

BTW, all of their paperwork on the first repair was wrong. I had a diff service writer and he was asking me what services I had with the other dealership (timing belt, etc) and I told him what I thought I had done. So he called them and confirmed. He told me this. And yet the paperwork still said I needed a new timing built amoung 3K fo other useless things.

01tl4tl

the service dept computer system is set on mileage to suggest services, plus whatever the tech writes on the invoice
Even though you had the timing belt done before- its not in their system and even then,,it still might pop up
Dont be surprised by things like fluid changes suggested after 60kmiles, even if they are brand new DIY projects
computer said,, not tech~

since you have known electrical issues- I would take it to an auto electric specialist shop- those guys know their stuff,, while dealer techs and shop terchs are more parts changers based only on codes--not real figuring out the problem by looking and understanding that comes with 50 years of working with these systems