chewi

Hi Everyone, I'm currently having problems with Apexi ws coilovers that are installed into my car.
The rear seems fine, but the front ones may be dangerous to ride on.
When I adjust the threads lower so that my car has about 2 finger gaps... the springs will become loose when the car is jacked up.

this is not a normal thing cuz i seen how Michaels tein SS does not have an loose springs whenthe car is jacked up.

CAN anybody figure out what srong with my install?

SAMKWS....if you read this, please try to see whats wrong. I hope that you are not running the same problem without knowing that the srpings maybe be loose.

Its a very dangerous set up if i lower my front under 3 or 4 finger gaps.



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BloodFart

It's perfectly fine. My Tein SS does it. It depends on the position of the spring perches. The lower you go, the more the springs will come loose when jacked up.

Don't worry about it. As long as the springs are seated properly into the top mount and the perches on the bottom, you're fine.

chewi

really?

so how low is your car?

UglyPsycho

Its fine. My apexi's does the same thing. Remember to adjust the height an extra 1/4in higher than you want it. That way when the springs settle in it will be at the height you want it at. Takes about two weeks.

chewi

so u are running the same set up as i am?

do u think the problem is because these are meant for the accords?

cuz right now i'm below the maximum drop with 2 finger gaps.

3 finger gaps is where its suppose to be the lowest

BloodFart

About a finger gap all around.

FiftyFive

im slammed on tein SS, its perfectly normal

UglyPsycho

I think all suspension is like that when you slam the car. My brothers lude does the same thing with his Tein's. I wouldnt slam the car so its tucking in the front. I had mine tucking 1/4in in the front and 1/2in in the rear. I notice that I was losing alot of traction, the suspension was bouncy which makes me bottom out and the car didnt turn as well either. All that stopped once I raised the car till the springs wasnt moving anymore. Now my car is 1/2 a finger gap in the front and touching the top of the tire in the rear. Still looks great but not as great as a slammed car.

power-fade

samkws has this one...http://imageevent.com/teaelle/myacur...=0&w=4&s=0&z=2

samkws

yup, you got the right one

and how the hell ur shop cannot install that??? you should find another shop who knows how to do coilovers...

no worry, if the mech knows he would have told u it's normal, it tells me that he doens't know shit

Michael03TLS

Thank you very much guys for responding to the post regarding Chewi's Apexi WS coilovers and his installation job. Samkws, thank you for the pictures to confirm; no need to respond back to me by PM or e-mail as Chewi got the pictures up here online. I was with Chewi during the installation job and I just found it so surprising to see the springs were Loose! When the car was jacked up on the hoist or floor jack ,you could move it with your hands. They literally were dangling if you could hold them up with one finger at the top of the spring especially if he tried to do a 1 finger wheelwell gap; we decided he should go back up to about 2 finger wheelwell gaps for more safety from the loose springs..haha that's my finger in the picture by the way .I mean the weight of the car *normally* sits on the springs and it's enough to hold it in place but it was scary to see the springs so loose and you could move them up and down about 2" inches while the car was up in the air with no weight on the springs and no weight on the suspension while jacked up.


Bloodfart said :
Yes ,this is true.This is scary...
The concerns that Chewi, me and Bread A-Spec had was it looked very odd. At minimum it should be held in place just enough by A) the upper, spring mount and B) lower spring seat so it doesn't move but these springs were moving freely essentially within 2.5" inches.
1) What happens if he hit a pot hole or major bumps on the road for him to LIFT up his car temporarily?
2) Wouldn't it throw the springs off their seat perches and misalign the springs to sit improperly?
3) Possibly bending the piston rod as a result?

Bloodfart:
I have Tein Coilovers SS-P. Even a finger all around like your Tein SS, the springs are still held in place by the A) upper mount and B) lower spring seat/lock . It is just barely held with a bit of pressure, but it is not "loose " and you can't lift the spring up and down like 2.5" movement with your hand while the car is jacked up with no weight on the coilovers. It just beats common sense to do this or have it like this. That is why they had certain "reference" lines for how many threads between the lower spring lock and the lowest thread on the shock body.

UglyPsycho:
Yeah but the problem is that his car is not slammed at all. With two finger gaps in his wheelwell, supposedly he is already below the "reference" line in the manual. With the "reference" line, he still has 3 fingers wheelwellgap BUT the spring is no longer loose between the A) upper mount and B) lower,spring seat/lock and just barely held in place. If he attempts to go below 3 finger wheelwellgap, his springs then start to become less sandwiched in between the mounts


However, when he goes below the "reference line" and *Tries* one finger wheelwell gap, his springs with the coilover assembly (while car is jack up) is loose and you are able to move it like 2.5" up and down. I could even lift it up to the point where I can simulate a misalignment of the spring on the yellow aluminum ring adapter that the springs use for fitting the top, oem Acura shock mount. I hope you can understand that if he were to hit a very deep hole in the road, it's possible that his car could *lift" off the ground temporarily and misalign his springs and bend the piston rod of the shock?

Yeah but if we try to raise his car so that his springs don't move between the A) upper mount and B) lower spring seat/lock, he is left with 3 Finger gaps for the wheelwell. Don't you find this odd?

You said you moved your springs so they don't move inbetween the the A) upper mount and B) lower spring seat and you are left with very little finger wheelwell gap. This is not the case with Chewi's Apexi WS or installation of the coilovers.


Samkws:
That's the problem Samkws. The mechanic and boss of the shop said it's "normal" to have the springs loose like that while the car is jacked up with no weight on the suspension. With 1 finger wheel gap, it was the worse with 2.5" or more of loose movement, so we had to raise it back up to 2 finger wheelgap for more safety.

I am just wondering if the Apexi WS are even compatible with the TL's because Honda Accord wheelwell gaps are at least 1.5 wheelwell fingers smaller than the TL's 4.5 wheelwell fingers gap. It would certainly scare the shit out of me if I had it on my suspension but if you guys say it's "normal", I don't know.... One deep hole or severe drop in the road could offset the spring on the perch and misalign the fitment to possibly bend the piston rod of the shock and that is what I am thinking and worried about - so is Chewi; of course it would have to be a pretty huge bump or drop in the ground to give the car's body a "lift" off for the spring to be "loose" and then come back down improperly.

chewi

hey sam... I just noticed that your pic 1/11 in image station has a different rear shock....
I hope that is not your actual coilovers.

Anyways... are u running into the same situation as i am? or do u think my install is wrong.

I really hope that i can compare my setup with yours some how.

Michael and I are out of ideas and I'm very frustrated about this siutation.

Can u tell me what i'm missing here?

chewi

If you have 1 finger gap all around and you have the same problem as me.... does that mean or install is not correct? I have 2 finger gaps front and 1 in the rear.

I wonder if Samkws has the same problem... hmmm
can u let us know if you have the same thing SAm?

samkws

don't let this cause any concerns
during my installation the spring does that like after i put the top mount on

the spring does move around, but once it installed into the car it's fine

as for the rear noise, it's a very common problem for coilovers, esp Teins, i do have the same noise for my right rear suspension, but cannot help with it

BloodFart

That is the nature of coilovers, because of the height adjustability. In an ordinary strut assembly, the spring is secured in position within a set height. But in coilovers, the lower you go, the more loose the spring will be when jacked up.

If you raise the spring perches to the top, and the spring will be secured into position and not move around. Lower the spring perches, and the spring will move around, because the top mount is not moveable/adjustable. But once you put the car back down, the load on the suspension will compress the strut until the spring is secured and can support the weight of the car.

As for the spring falling out when hitting a bump.... unless you go off a jump and get airborne, you don't have to worry about this.

This is just how coilovers are. If you're that worried about it (although there is nothing to worry about), then it's not for you. Go with struts and springs instead of coilovers.

chewi

Thanks for the help Bloodfart and Samkws for verifying my situation. And thank you to all who also made suggestions to my situation. Although I'm still a little skeptical, I'm glad that all of you think this is a normal situation.

I will check with UA5_TL's car to see how his apexi coilovers are installed when he comes back from China next week.

I'm glad that ppl on this forum are willing to give opinions and help.

* Special thanks to Michael for doing all the research and devoting time in helping me clearify this situation. I owe you one!

Michael03TLS

Yeah no problem Chewi. I want to get to the bottom of this situation also.

Also thank you to ALL those who had suggestions and comments also to clarify this situation. Of course if anyone else has more advice and comments, they are welcome

chewi

Hey guys,

I just found out what could be wrong with my problem here.
I just looked into my instructions manual and found 2 different diagrams for the front struts assembly.

One of them has 3 washers and 2 nuts between the bushing and the stoppers located under the top mounts.

2nd diagram shows that only 2 washers and one nut is placed in between the bushing and stopper with the EXTRA nut being REPLACE and PUT on with the top nut. And now the shock will be brought up 10mm which will reduce the looseness of my springs.

I could take out 2 washers and 2 nuts to reduce the gap but 20mm which wil help greatly. It doesn't show that i can take 2 washers and nuts out, but I assume i can do this.

Same goes for the rear.


now.... all of you who have the Apexi's installed.... How many Nuts do u have on top of the upper mount? You can see this when you pop up the hood and check it.

I hope This will solve my problem.

Thanks everyone

chewi

Can anyone of you APEXI owners confirm this?

MQMH_03

Just curious, how long did the installation take chewi? Did you follow the instruction manual or go about some other way? I am probably getting my tanabe sustec's installed this following week...much obliged

chewi

it took the mechanic 2hrs...but i wish i didn't bring it in to some shop that don't sell apexi coilovers.

Try to avoid Mechancs that don't seem to have a good attitude with working on cars. That Fuker scratched my paint, jacked my car up on the wrong jack points.
He was jacking up my front front the subframes with caused a slight dent into the frame.

Just make shure u find a reliable place with good mechs.

hope u get a good install.

BTW... let us know how your Tanabe's handle...

My APexi handles very well

MQMH_03

just got my tanabe's installed today. I have the rears sitting perfectly at 2 finger gap (clicked to setting 5) and the fronts at about 1 finger gap. On the drive home from the shop, it felt great except for driving over imperfections in the road. They are stiffer, but not unbearable. I think I will go back and get the front raised. Hey chewi, did your apexi's come with the 2 adjusting wrenches? Im kinda afraid to adjust it myself haha.....

chewi

Yes All coilovers should come with 2 adjusting wrenches.

When you do the adjustments, the best way to do it is count the threads.

I'm glad you like the tanabes.

BTW... I think 1 finger gap all around would look better than 2.

But its up to u.

Don't be afraid to adjust them. just make sure u tighten them when u have found the right height.

MQMH_03

chewi, do you have to remove the wheel and jack up the car to adjust the ride height? To me it seems like you have to...

MQMH_03

also haha one more quick question chewi, did you use the stock upper mount or no?

chewi

yes... I had to remove the tire to adjust the height unless u got a hoist to lift up the car so u can do it from under the car.

And yes my apexi WS uses the stock upper mounts.

I'm assuming u don't use them cuz you might have pillow ball mounts on your tanabes just like the Tein SS-P's .

BTW... do u have any rattles at all? I know tein SS-P's have alot of rattling

MQMH_03

NO rattling thus far, but the main problem i have run into is adjusting the height. I can't bring the fronts back up to stock height if i wanted for some reason....