rcljrmann

Hi I recently purchased a 2002 Acura TL Premium with 120,000 Miles in it and have been having some ingition problems with the car. Ive had the car for about 6 months now and about every 100 to 200 miles the car with start to ride rough and the vehicle will shake while driving with the Check Engine Light flashing and the TCS light coming on. It seems to trigger this malfunction at a lower RPM around 1 to 2 Rpms and wont stop until the vehicle stops and is turned off and sits for about an hour. Then after you turn the car on it balances out and is not vibrating or shaking anymore and the Check Enigne Light stays on Solid with the TCS Light being off. I was getting misfire codes in cylinders 3,5,6 and a random misfire code along with a multi cylinder misfire code. I would have them reset with an OBD 2 reader and every 100-200 miles but the same thing would happen.

Eventually I went ahead and installed 6 new Coils and 6 new NGK Spark plugs in the car along with a new EGR Valve and cleaned the carbon out of the Fuel Plenum with all new gaskets. It drove fine for about 2000 miles, but last week i started it in the morning and drive it for about 10 miles and it started back with the same vibration and Check Engine Flashing as it was doing before. I took it to the shop to have a diagnostic ran and it came back that Cylinders 1,2,3,5,6 were misfiring along with a Multi Cylinder misfire, and a Random Cylinder misfire.

Im really at a loss and need any and all advice.........

01tl4tl

which ngk did you use--iridium--8 buck each plugs not some 2 buck ones they said fit?

might have bad connector to coil- or a new coil failed- that happens
You can try unplugging the coils one at a time and watch for rpm drop- the one that doesnt change is not firing

ck all ground wires and connections- spray electrical cleaner inside the connections to coils

remove a few spark plugs and see if they look wet from no fire
cyl number is rear pass to driver 123 front 456

the codes are clues not diagnosis- multi cyl misfire is often 1 coil failure

On your fuel plenum cleaning- do you mean removed intake manifold and cleaned EGR port system inside it- with carb cleaner and a wire rod?
that clogs every 75kmiles and causes all kinds of problems

recheck manifold bolt torque if so- they like to loosen a 1/4 turn and throws things off!

trans= to keep it running another month try a switch of 3 qts plain generic/your choice `type F` fluid,,thats band-aided many,, and several right now

01tl4tl

to do a master ecu reset:
remove the CLOCK fuse on passenger end of dash for 1 minute- thats the secret backup power to the ecu and forces a full clear and relearn

some scanners dont fully clear the system

rcljrmann

The platnium tip NGK's are the one i got dont' really remember how much thou. As far as the EGR I got it done at Firestone and i saw them clean the top of the plenum out with a wire brush and repace the EGR and gasket but i dont know about how in dept they went. They did run a fuel system treatment through the injectors that was supposed to clean all the other stuff out and teflon coat the plenum for future carbon build up supression. Car says it requires at least 91 octane, in South Carolina you can only get 89 or 93, so i do a half a tank of 89 and another half of 93 to get it around 91. I never put the cheap stuff in it. Like I said the vibration and shakeing and CEL Light happens spontaniously every 100 to 200 hundred miles give or take, but the car after driving it while its shaking and flashing always seems to balance out after about 20 or 30 miles. "What I cant understand is why it went so long without malfunctioning (2000 miles)" after I installed all of those parts. Its never went that long without doing it.

As far as the Trans goes I have had no problems or any indication of a problem so far. "Not even any slipping" so why the comment above about the Trans, do you think it might have something to do with any of what I am experienceing.

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

His trans comment was more of a general tip. Our transmissions were VERY poorly designed.

Pinpoint the cylinder that's misfiring. Like Tom said, disconnect one to see if the engine idle changes. Repeat for all of the cylinders. Platinum tip NGK are OEM, and should not give any issues. It might just be that they loosened up over the 2k miles. Torque it down properly. I believe it's 13 foot pounds.

rcljrmann

Ok I hear ya on the Trans question. But the details were very vague can you elaborate a little more on how to keep my existing Trans in good shape for future refrence..

01tl4tl

I was thinking of another thread I had just read where owner wanted another month before replacing trans..sorry..see the many recent trans fluid threads for fluid options we never considered before

Im going to guess that firestone had no idea of the real prob on our egr--its not just poke a wire brush around the top and replace the valve (which was probably good)
based on low flow insufficent flow EGR code?

MUST remove intake manifold from car--place on workbench or solvent tank and go to town on its several ports and passage that go from one end thru to the other
requires 3 cans carb clean and a wire coat hanger for DIY --thats how intense the cleaning has to be!

Did they also install the plugs? I wouldnt trust the NGK went in, and as said- recheck all their or your own work- plug torque very important- loss of power,,a recent ziner post had one car melted the lower section of coil from loose plug!!!
Make sure all connections to coils are clean inside- use crc spray for that

the TL requires 91 MINIMUM-it prefers 94, especially type S engine with its higher compression
if 93 is what you can buy thats what you use- no mixing to make 91,,thats crazy talk,
different additive amounts and types are used to raise the octane- which makes it resist premature ignition of the fuel before piston reaches top dead center,,firing before tdc really messes up the engine

01tl4tl

sounds like you are new to car maitenance and the TL
buy a can of Seafoam at the parts store or walmart even carries it- next to the carb cleaner spray cans
add that to just under half tank of gas to clean stuff the first treament didnt get and then good for a year

ParaSurfer1979

Just brun 93...lol why would you go to mixing 89/93...lol. Enjoy the fact that SC offers better gas. We do here in NC as well but I enjoy the fact that my car gets better gas than it needs. My 03 CL-S 6speed had Iridium plugs from the factory. The TL-S doesn't?

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

Mmmm, I don't think Iridiums were OEM on ANY car ever. Either platinum or laster platinum.

rcljrmann

Appreciate all of the feed back, as far as the Seafoam goes i beleive it is the best product I ever used, I used a two can application on my Mitsubshi 3000 GT VR4 and Nissan 300zx Twin Tubro about six months ago. 1 can in a full tank of gas and a half a can in the Cam Case along with another half through the brake booster and I swear it looked like a nuclear bomb went off in my driveway, the mushroom cloud was like 30ft in the air for like 10 minutes. When I broke the engine down on the 3000 GT a couple of months later to have it re-gasketed, it was super-clean. Im gonna give the Acura TL a two can Seafoam application here soon but I just got the oil changed last week so I think ill wait another 2,500 miles before doing it so that I won't have to change the oil right away. "I heard they say after applying Seafoam you need to get your oil changed no later than 300 miles after the application to the Cam case do to the release of all the grim and carbon build up". Well gonna try to check the plugs and coils out this week along with the Fuel-plenum and EGR-ports, "guess i better head over to Advanced and order those Gaskets since im opening her back up". I sware I really dont think there is a single person in South Carolina that knows anything about an Acura TL. Ive taked to Master Techs, Acura Dealers, Service Departments, Independent Mechanics about what is going on with my TL and everybody seems to have a different opinion on what is wrong with it. So far this Fourm is has the most helpful tool I have come across so-far.

rcljrmann

Oh, here's a question I forgot to ask in the last post. As far as the TL in concerned what model years was Acura having problems with the Transmission on the TL. And what is the best solution for keeping up your current transmission in tact, especially if you just bought the car from a dealership with 120,000 miles on it and you dont know what services have been done on it from its two previous owners. Not to mention the "what if" question as far as if the Transmission has been replaced yet.

rcljrmann

One more question as well, I was reading online that the Acura TL years 1999 to 2003 needs to have a manditory Valve Adjustment every 105,000 or so. It stated that the valves have tendence to tighten after time which to the "hearing ear" would go undetected, unlike a loose Valve or Valves in the engine that can be noticeably heard. What do you think?

rcljrmann

Looked in the owners manual today the spec's on the gas say "REQUIRED 91 OCTANE OR HIGHER' I believe I have a 12 Gallon tank, so are you telling me that doing 6 Gallons of 89 Octane which in Mid-grade in this state and another 6 Gallon of 93 Octane Premium, is not a good idea? It comes down to trying to save money but if it's not ok ill have to manage and go strickly with the higher octane.

01tl4tl

your TL has a 17.3 gallon tank- the low level light comes on at 3 remaining of which
~2.5 are useable fuel

various additives are put into fuel to boost the octane-
it all starts as low grade, then at the loading facilty the final mix is prepared and put into tanker trucks
you cannot mix your own!!
use the correct fuel grade and the TL will purr,,use Tier 1 brands for best performance

Note: do NOT use brake booster on TL for seafoam!!! use master vac port at TB or thru TB throat (clean TB air plate that way at least)
the brake booster has a valve inside that prevents flow
1/2-3/4 can thru master vac port is plenty

use 1 can in just under HALF tank of gas for 2 oz per gal `cleaning dose`- per seafoam.

1/2 can in oil before ready to change, drive 30 minutes to 200 or so miles- monitor dipstick on high miles cleanout method for sludge

the valves NEED to be adjusted around 100kmiles,with the 105 service or with the egr cleaning of intake manifold- it gets removed to access valve covers
Fuel injected cars need correct valve opening and closing
anyone who has done it found a few tight and a few loose!

01tl4tl

replaced trans ck: open hood- look at bolts on trans- blue painted bolt heads mean warranty unit

Noobs to seafoam should repeat gas and vac port in a month or two, gets missed stuff as you now know how to apply best-- then you are good for a year/15kmiles until repeat

01tl4tl

trans lifespan: change 3 qts (may take up to 3.4) every year/15kmiles

rcljrmann

Hey 01tl4tl just asking, are you ASE Certified or Master Certified.

01tl4tl

I didnt do ASE, its a good program and gives consumers some certainty the tech has knowledge to work on general and specific parts--look for it when cking out shops!

my path was into racing, flying and diving-yadayada... now Im Rev. Tom who writes books on DIY: how to clear the bad programing from our mind
~-different type certifications ~
cars are a small part of my life knowledge despite 4 decades around them

Every detail specific to the TL = I learned right here on azine!! and the owner book. (some calls to specialist in brakes, suspension, and seafoam didnt hurt)

My guess; an ASE guy would be able to troubleshoot these freaky headlight problems several of us are having now!!
AcuraTech1 would you agree with that?

rcljrmann

As far as the Transmission goes im taking your advise on the service you recommended. But I have a quick question for you. You say to drain 3 Quarts of Tranny oil every 15k or every year in order to preserve my existing Transmission correct? But what kind of Trans oil should I use? And ive never done any Trans service to this TL so how do I go about draining the Trans oil that I have in there. Do you think its wise to take it to a store like Firestone and Just have the $150 Trans flush service done, where they drain the existing oil then run a solvent through to clean the trans out and then fill it again. Let me know what you think the best coarse of action is.

03tl-s04mdx

No! If it's an original tranny at 120k that's likely to kill it.

Did you ever check the bolts on the transmission? Blue = Acura warranty replacement

Have you registered at www.myacura.com and checked to see if there is any history of recall or extended warranty work done on the trans?

Without knowing the history of the transmission it's hard to make a good recommendation. If you haven't had any symptoms of transmission problems (slipping, hard shifts, slow to engage, etc.) then I would probably stick with a single drain and fill of 3 qts. Honda ATF-Z1 or DW1 (the new stuff). If the first one goes okay then every 15k miles after that would probably be a good routine.

fsttyms1

Not a good idea. And really, what are you saving per fill up? a buck or 2? Put in what the manufacturer recommends. The car will run at its best.


And stay away from shops that want to "Flush" your trans. Honda does not want the trans flushed. Do a drain fill. We have a drain plug on the trans, its no harder than changing oil. Drain 3 quarts out fill with 3 new quarts

rcljrmann

Where is that Trans drain plug located on my TL? And where do I look for the blue painted bolts on my Trans to tell if its been replaced.

rcljrmann

To: 01TL4TL

Appreciate all the help friend. Good to know there is people out there that know what heck there doing. Disregard my last post on the thread i guess i got the message a little late. Sorry the site won't send a message yet guess im to new. To be completely honest with you I bought my 02 TL in Atlanta for $7,000 Cash back in October with 120,000 miles on it, it now has 134,000, and alot of problems that followed with it. I really do love the car but had I known what I was getting into before I bought the car I would have probably bought a different car. I kind of like the 3rd Gen TL's as far as looks go, don't know if they are problem proned like our 2nd Gen's but I think it might be my next car...

01tl4tl

typical- someone found out dealer price on the service needed at 105,,sold the car at 120 without it being done ,,,didnt keep up with the needed maitenance etc

so you are left to fix them and enjoy the car,,or lose money selling it now
All used cars have issues- thats why they are being sold in most cases!

gen3 had probs with trans- both auto and 6 speed for the first 2 years,
after 06 would be better car,, but nowhere near as nice looking as gen2- my opinion-
and again- there will be things to fix on a used car
New cars have problems- but warranty covers them~ so pay up front or pay later--its your choice

rcljrmann

Well i think we may have it figured out. Car started acting up again yesterday with the same thing its been consistantly doing every couple hundred of miles "misfiring". As you know, if you've been keeping up with the thread ive just replaced the plugs, coils, and egr along with a intake manifold cleaning about 2000 miles ago. Well I got lucky and it to a honda dealer while it was misfiring and the tech told me that it was cylinder #4 that was misfiring and causeing all the other cylinders to misfire as well along with the random and muli clyinder misfire codes. He looked at it further and determined that the coils and plugs were fine and all functioning properly. He said that I had a bad injector in #4 and that it would intermediatly go in and out every once in a while and not spray fuel in the cylinder causing the "misfire" and after driving the vehicle for for a certain amount of time the injector would free up and start operating normally but would still go out every now and again until I replaced it. Needless to say I ordered six new injectors that will be in next week and am going to have honda put them in for me. So what do you think guys?????????

rcljrmann

And as far as the transmission goes the honda tech took a look at it and said that he believes that it is the original transmission. I thought to myself "WOW". A 2002 TL with 137,000 miles on it with the original tranny still in there, that could either be a good thing or a bad thing no. Do you think I should be worried that my trans could go out any minute being that its so old and has never been replaced. The tech said he couldnt see blue painted bolts on the trans he told me that there wasent a jet kit installed from what he could see.

01tl4tl

tell him to make up his mind
its either got blue bolt heads in several easy to see locations
or its got the external oil jet kit on top of trans
OR it never got the recall done to install that kit!!
acura will know about that part. 1 800 382 2238x5 can say if recall performed

sounds more like dirty electrical connection to injector--his story makes no sense
Have you seafoamed the gas tank before? 1 can to 1/2 tank done twice = better than shops special 150$ injector cleaning

rcljrmann

In telling you what was done at Honda mabey I could have explained it a little better. I brought them the car while it was misfiring they pulled the coils one at a time to see which one wasent making any noise they found that #5 was not sounding any worse when pulled so they tested the coil which turned out to be fine and was working properly. Then they took bore camera and looked at the injector in #5 while it was fireing. Turns out it wasent, then swaped injectors #4 and #5 and the one that was in #5 was not fireing in #4 even when swaped. He then told me that the injector would go in and out and it needed to be replaced.

snklfritzz

It's the fuel pressure regulator. $100 part takes about 15 minutes to put it on yourself. It was a special order part at Autozone (one day later) but was able to find it in stock at O'Reilly.

Worked like a charm. I spent about 7 months trying to figure this out. Changed the thermostat, fuel filter, fuel pump and had to get a new transmission (unrelated), so I was able to cross all those things off the list. The original problem still persisted. UNTIL I changed the fuel pressure regulator! Good luck! Please pass this on. It seems like it is a VERY common problem in which no one seems to know the answer. AND if the dealerships know, they certainly aren't sharing and they love to overcharge. I'm a DIY kinda gal. I have had ZERO problems since I changed out the part. Very happy Acura owner now

wultkms23

snklfritzz----Where is the FPR on sale for $100 I looked online and could only find it as low a $175

wultkms23

nevermind I was looking at the wrong ones. I did find it!! Now will the CEL turn off on it's own?

BillThyCat

When my mechanic called Acura yesterday about a new transmission, they said an updated PCM and the fuel pressure regulator needed to be replaced at the same time. Any idea what the FPR has to do with the transmission? Or is more to do with the PCM?

The Acura dealer has never seen my car, so he wasn't basing it on other diagnostics, he just said that was part of the transmission replacement that they also quoted $5500 to do.....

BTC

01tl4tl

wul
reset the CEL by removing the CLOCK fuse from passenger end of dash
leave it out a minute then insert
start car
that forces a master reset and relearn

You can remove battery neg cable for same result, but then you have to input radio security code and may lose other memory settings- clock fuse doesnt hurt those things.

The clock fuse is the secret backup power for the ECU!!

Soseductivesf

Is there a way to pull codes for VSA light? My mechanic couldn't do it... As of now my VSA/! triangle stay on..

dannypio

Where exactly is the clock fuse? Cannot locate. Thanks.

3.2TLc

Passenger side underdash fuse panel. The "Clock Backup" fuse #13 (7.5A) needs to be pulled and then replaced after a minute or two.

This will reset the "CEL".

bill2333