vzuptnguyen

the whole reason i wanted to sell my car and get a new one was mainly because i wanted a manual car. i never thought about making my car a manual but i think itll be less complicating to swap the tranny, then to sell and buy a new car.

1. ive read some people like austin, and cocoa do the 3.5 odyssey or mdx block with the type S heads, then the cl-s 6 speed tranny. are there any other options? how much horsepower gain is involved?

2. i was thinking it might be easier, just doing the tranny swap and then 02-03 typeS head swap. is this the best "bang for the buck"?or should i jsut get the whole TLs engine

how much would it cost total, including everything for option 1(without labor)
how much would it cost total for option 2 (without labor)

Does the Cl-s tranny bolt right up with tlp engine? what else is needed for it?

what site can i find all the blocks,engines from, other than ebay and acurastore


thanks in advance. sorry if some questions are redundant.

csmeance

for all the info you need and want, PM lookinco, he did a 3.5 MDX block, cl-s Heads and some other stuff with MT tranny on a 3rd Gen TL. He should be able to answer all of your questions easily.

blk2001tlon19s

What are you trying to do? Just make the car a manual or add other stuff? The cl-s 6 speed bolts up to the block. Do you have a type s already or TL-P? Pm fttyms, he can help you out.

vzuptnguyen

thanks for replies

i have a 2001 TL-P (base)

i think itll just be a lot easier for me to do the CL-s engine and tranny. but i want more power

if i do the 3.5 block with the 3.2S heads, will i still be a candidate for all the headers and intake and stuff for the typeS? because i know there are practically nothing for the j35's

and sorry for asking this...but what is a "head"?

adamlee05

Funny, I spent a few hours talking to austin last night. You were asking about power output which im not sure about without a blower, being that he is blown. With that being said, his 3.5 blown is putting out around 400 at the crank, but he's went through 5 trannies already

If you were serious about it, i'd try to find the 3.5 shortblock and add type-s heads to it. no need in buying the whole engine since you arent going to use it. And since you have it all ripped out, damnit boy, you better get that 6-speed!!!

Do it tam!

Edit: WHOOPS! forgot. Yeah the Cl-S 6-speed will bolt up to the TL-P, TL-S, Oddyse and older MDX blocks. But, you must have the CL-S 6-speed ECU.

Also the 3.0 Accord V6 6-speed (03+ models) will bolt up too, but it doesnt have the LSD the CL-S has. Also, I wonder if the Accord ECU would work....be kinda pointless though.

joeman892

Well im not sure if u know about the cost, but my car is currently getting the 6-speed make over. I got the trans, speedo, and the ecu for $1450.00 and i still am gonna be spending over 3 grand for this whole thing, and thats just on parts. Also, i already have a Tl-s so there is no need for me to get a new engine. Expect to pay alot for this change over. And about power increase you can get an underground racing lightweight flywheel. That will cut down on some drive train loss. If u have any more questions PM me about it.

fsttyms1

I wouldnt buy a 3.5 block. To keep prices down id use a type-s motor. That way you have the heads and everything already. That way all your buying is the crank (and if you want higher compression RL pistons)

The search button works for this as well


ts just a parts list with engine codes and such

here is more to chew on

J30A1/J30A1
advantage: no modification needed.
disadvantage: no torque until turbo/sc kicks in.

J30A1/J32A2
advantage: mid-range and top-end power
disadvantage: J30A1 pistons have to be modified to fit large J32A2 (intake) valves.
Not much torque until turbo/sc kicks in.

J32A2/J32A2
advantage: no modification needed, mid-range, top-end power.
disadvantage: torque is still ok but better than J30A1

J35A*/J30A1
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: top-end power

J35A*/J32A2
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage:
Need RL pistons.

UPDATE (6/23/2005)
There are also couple options:

Option 1
With '01 or '02 Odyssey complete block (crank/rods/pistons) it is required to purchase 2005 Acura RL pistons
(new set $50 each) This is a best option still since these pistons have clearance for large 36mm J32A2 (intake)
valves thus no modification needed. Despite the fact they have higher 11.0:1 CR still even supercharger can be
used here with low boost up to 7psi intercooled (assuming safe AFR). In addition, if 11:1 CR is too high for you,
you can use '03 CL-S pistons with 10.5:1 CR.

Option 2
'01-03 J32A2 block (CL-S)
Required to purchase the following:

'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00 $367.32

'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00 $79.48 each

'03 CL-S (pistons) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons) - 11.0:1 CR

Note: Odyssey pistons do not have clearance to fit large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves. Solution - custom job to
increase valve pockets.

BTW, The only advantage to get J32A2 block is due to better cylinder sleeves to withstand heat designed for higher
redline vehicle, otherwise depending on the price Odyssey '01, '02 block is the best bet.


The best bet is to have '01 Odyssey block and swap in '05 RL pistons. Not sure about '01-02 MDX block this should
be checked. '03-04 MDX crankshaft which is the same part as '05 RL
will not work.
Bottom line, I checked crank, rods cannot be used from either '03-04 MDX or '05 RL on Odyssey block - they won't
work. Only 'RL pistons/rings are good.

Piston Part#
13010-RJA-000, 2005 RL, $50.47, 36mm/30mm (intake/exhaust valves)
13010-PGK-A01, 2002-2004 Odyssey, $29.89, 30mm/30mm
and Accord V6 valves are 30mm/30mm.

And since MDX piston is exactly the same as Odyssey, let's stick to Odyssey.

This is the documented proof showing '05 RL pistons are perfect fit for large CL-S/TL-S 36mm intake valves when installing 3.2L heads
on 3.5L block whereas '02-04 Odyssey pistons required metal removal to increase valve pockets to fit.
Let's just stick to Odyssey

BTW, $50 each '05 RL piston set can be purchased from acuraautomotiveparts.org

So those who want J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) heads on J35A1 ('01 Odyssey) complete block the best bet is '05 RL pistons otherwise get '02-'04
Odyssey pistons and have machine shop to clear the valve "pockets"

Or another option is '01-03 J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) heads on '01-03 J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S)block. But you need Odyssey '01-03 crankshaft and rods
as indicated on the page 1 (see J35A1/J32A2 listing) + '05 RL pistons


Here are the updated options :


BLOCK/HEADS (incl. manifold (upper/lower), tb)
------------------
J30A1/J30A1
advantage: no modification needed.
disadvantage: no torque until turbo/sc kicks in.

J30A1/J32A2
advantage: mid-range and top-end power
disadvantage: J30A1 pistons have to be modified to fit large J32A2 (intake) valves.
Not much torque until turbo/sc kicks in.

J32A2/J32A2
advantage: no modification needed, mid-range, top-end power.
disadvantage: torque is still ok but better than J30A1

J35A4/J30A1 (Odyssey '02-04/ '00-02 Accord V6)
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: top-end power

J35A3/J35A3 (Acura MDX '01-02)
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: little less air flow than J32A2 but very close.

This option looks like a good choice if getting the complete engine or even separate short block and cyl.
heads/manifold due to a price. And MDX the cyl.
heads are the same part # as CL-S, however intake valves and cams are different than CL-S.

J35A3/J32A2 ('01-02 MDX/CL-S '01-03) or J35A4/J32A2 (Odyssey '02-04/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.

There are also couple options:

Option 1
With '01-02 complete MDX block or '02-04 Odyssey complete block (crank/rods/pistons) it is required to purchase 2005 Acura RL
pistons (new set $50 each) This is a best option still since these pistons have clearance for large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves
thus no modification needed. Despite the fact they have higher 11.0:1 CR still even supercharger can be used here with low boost
up to 7psi intercooled (assuming safe AFR). In addition, if 11:1 CR is too high for you, you can use '03 CL-S pistons with 10.5:1 CR.

Option 2
'01-03 J32A2 block (CL-S)
Required to purchase the following:

-= hondaautomotiveparts.com =-
'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00

'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00

Main bearings + rod bearings

-= acuraautomotiveparts.org =-
'03 CL-S (pistons) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons) - 11.0:1 CR

pistons rings (per chosen model)

Note: Odyssey pistons do not have clearance to fit large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves. Solution - custom job to increase valve pockets.

BTW, The only advantage to get J32A2 block is due to better cylinder sleeves to withstand heat designed for higher redline vehicle,
otherwise depending on the price Odyssey or MDX block are the best bet.

Keep in mind, J35A5 '03-04 MDX will not fit on 6th gen. AV6/CL/TL/CL-S/TL-S due to different design, and looks like only for 7th gen.
AV6.

02type-s

So what kind of power difference would I see if I did the 02-04 odessey crankshaft and connecting rods, and the RL pistons??

fsttyms1

As opposed to what?

adamlee05

^---thank god this guy is on our team

Local brain in the house!!! thanks kris.

vzuptnguyen

my god. that information is crazy. thanks for taking the time. your the best moderator here!!!

vzuptnguyen

Or another option is '01-03 J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) heads on '01-03 J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S)block. But you need Odyssey '01-03 crankshaft and rods
as indicated on the page 1 (see J35A1/J32A2 listing) + '05 RL pistons


i dont get it, the tlS heads and tlS block = tlS engine. but why would you need odys crankshaft and rod.


i think i cant afford 6000 for motor swap now that i saw the price.

easiest option is just the get the CLs tranny and the CLs engine or TLs engine (exact same engine?)

tranny is jerking around, i may just do tranny swap first. man so many options in a field i dont know anything about. i feel lost in space =/

fsttyms1

the J32A2 is the type-s motor. Its the same for the TL and CL. The CL-S 6 speed uses the same J32A2 but there are just some slight differences with the parts on it and if you can find it used will probably be cheaper in the long run due to some expensive sensors if you plan on putting in the manual trans

If you stick with the J32A2 motor (tls/cls motor) alone it wont be a 3.5 liter, it will be a 3.2 liter. By buying the oddy/mdx crank and connecting rods you are turning it into a 3.5 liter. The type s pistons can be used, but the compression ratio stays at 10.5:1 With the RL pistons it raises to 11.1:1 (better if you never plan on Forced Induction)

adamlee05

take an old RL emblem and cut off the "RL", and cut the 3.2 off the TL emblem, so you have a "3.5TL" LOL. JK dont. stay clean.

joeman892

so what are the gains from the 3.5 stroker with keeping the 10.5:1 compression? I would guess that it would be little horsepower and lots of torque. I hope i didnt read over this but i havent found any numbers when i looked.

fsttyms1

but they say its close to what the SC puts out on the LBP

vzuptnguyen

yea i prolly was thinking about just doing the simple swap. original j32a2 swap with the cls6 tranny.

do you think its worth the money to do the crank/rods? how much are those?

and yes i do plan to have F/i


is it ok if i just swap the cls6 tranny for now?

vzuptnguyen

on a side note. did the cls6 ever come in tan interior?

fsttyms1

Just stick to the stock type-s motor. To put in the other parts to make it a 3.5 requires a engine rebuild. Its not like adding a CAI where you just throw it in

fsttyms1

?? why

joeman892

hmm if thats the case, the sc isnt worth it.. i mean the 3.5 stroke is way cheaper.. and keeps it N/A.. which is really something to brag about when it comes to power in my eyes. hopefully everything with my 6-speed swap will go good, so i can start saving for that next lol. man less than 2 weeks untill i put my TL in 6th gear.....

fsttyms1

Yea until you change the pulley and then the SC becomes much more powerful.

There are also 2 things to consider. The SC is a bolt on kit. You buy it and in under a day you have it installed and running properly.

The 3.5 is no where near a bolt on kit. It requires the motor being pulled out and being rebuilt. You should have teh block sent to the machine shop to be honed at minimum. Plus most arent capable of doing this and most shops would probably charge atleast 3-4k+ to rebuild the motor with desired parts. (now doing the work yourself will make the project a 1k project)

you do the math, which is cheaper and worth more in terms of HP

00 acura tl

is their any cl manual trans but non-types?

joeman892

Oh wow i never would of thought that it would require that much work... hmm i guess i would have to re think myself on this one. The supercharger with the high boost pulley i guess would make for one sick car.. but i am a fan of displacement. LoL i guess i shouldnt of gone with honda...

vzuptnguyen

cuz thats my interior, and i dont want mismatching interior. haha

fsttyms1

None of the interior parts that you would need to buy would be tan anyways. all you need is the E-Brake and cup holder for the center console and thats just black as usual

fsttyms1

vzuptnguyen

good point. lol

vzuptnguyen

adam just told me basically its an all or nothing project.

i was hoping i could do the cls6 with my stock tlP motor. but he said it wont work.

so i guess ill save up for half a year. =[

adamlee05

yup..... I guess I'll just continue with the other projects im doing for now :rollseyes:

vzuptnguyen

can you confirm this kris

blk2001tlon19s

why wouldn't it work? Explain.......


I mean you would need the various wiring harnesses or to run a standalone but trust me, anything is possible if you have the funding in place for it.

fsttyms1

Of course it will work. But you wont be able to use the CL-S ECU. You will have to trick your stock ECU into working.



And DONT ask me how to do that. Go over to AV6 and see how they have done it on the accords

vzuptnguyen

lol, is it because you dont know or it is too complicated to explain to a person of my ignorance. basically a ecu flash? how bout the aftermarket performance ecu they make.


ok so now i have hope, that i can swap tranny without engine.

fsttyms1

There is No ecu flash for our cars. nor are there performance ECUs. You have to trick the stock ecu into thinking that its still hooked up to a automatic. And yes, i dont know the exact way to do it. I have looked at what those who have on the other forums and have a really good idea how, but i dont know the specifics.

vzuptnguyen

weighing it out by price. is it more of a cost effective to do the whole engine and tranny swap?

of is it just as costly if i do the tranny alone.


btw, is there any place i can check to see what the dealer pays for a part?

if parts needed for the engine and tranny swap are 3500 (minus engine,ecu,tranny) how would you think it would be for the dealer?

adamlee05

Btw, the $3500 parts cost is something I sent him. I'm not sure if there are cheaper places online, but for reference sake I went to oemacuraparts.com or whatever that website is and entered all the part numbers from your 6-speed thread Kris. Total came out to JUST over $3,400, minus Engine, ECU, Tranny, and a few dampners and such.

I had planned on doing this swap until I found it would cost $6K+

Tam, if you need to know dealer cost for parts, let me know. I can get you a list. Getting those parts at dealer-cost however....goodluck. Unless you're friends with the owner its not gonna happen. Lucky for me, I am lol

adamlee05

Ah I feel stupid for asking this....but whats the link to AV6? I've tried av6DOTnet, av6DOTcom, av6DOTorg. I tried DOTcom and everything. Am I just oblivious to some forum everyone knows about?



I'd like a link to this Auto ECU thing

vzuptnguyen

i can get deal price plus 10%, not too bad

i just ordered some $10 nut and pin for $3, oh i showed u last time adam.

fsttyms1

Guys i dont want to sound like a ass, but all the info is there. If you do your homework and find USED parts things will be cheaper. I did it for 5500 but i know it can be done for under 5k. i dont have the link to the thread, but i used and typed in av6 and there were lots of stuff that came up for that forum. You will have to do lots of reading because its not black and white with step by step on how to.

Once again i used these 2 links to find all my stuff
http://www.car-part.com/index.htm
http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/...catdisplay.jsp