07 type-s heads on a 2g block?
03-07-2009, 10:28 AM
#1
268hp 301tq @7.8psi
Thread Starter
07 type-s heads on a 2g block?
any know if this can be done?
a collision shop i do towing for was parting 07 tl-s i snaged the heads for 300 bucks. the guy i know at the dealer thinks that they should bolt up but doest know what the computer will do.if not ill port-n-polish these and ebay they go.
a collision shop i do towing for was parting 07 tl-s i snaged the heads for 300 bucks. the guy i know at the dealer thinks that they should bolt up but doest know what the computer will do.if not ill port-n-polish these and ebay they go.
03-07-2009, 04:44 PM
#6
268hp 301tq @7.8psi
Thread Starter
hmm? im waiting for a freind of mine to get back from honda tranning in ct. hes got access to both honda and acura programs at work see what he can come up with
my only concern is what the computer will see if they will fit.
my only concern is what the computer will see if they will fit.
03-07-2009, 06:29 PM
#7
Senior Moderator
Something tells me No.
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03-07-2009, 09:30 PM
#11
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
Here's some info from last year that my buddy Paul and I discovered while tearing down my J35A4. 7th gen (similar to the 3rd gens) and the 6th gen (similar to our 2nd gen).
7th gen heads can work with 6th gen engines, this also means the 07 tl-s cams can also be made to work, it will take a little work but it can be done. This also means that the 7th gen intake runners and intake can be used, but will probably require the use of a CL-S throttle boady. So we can get a 6th gen to breath.
7th gen cams will not work on 6th gen heads, you have to use the 6th gen cam and crank gears as they are completely different for the 7th gen parts and there just is not enough cam to make it work as the 6th gen cams are 6mm longer than 7th gen cams.
7th gen cams will not work on 6th gen heads, you have to use the 6th gen cam and crank gears as they are completely different for the 7th gen parts and there just is not enough cam to make it work as the 6th gen cams are 6mm longer than 7th gen cams.
Well guys here are some picks of the engine teardown and where I mocked up a pair of J30A4 heads.
First lets look at a J35A4 front head and a J30A4 front head side by side.
Now lets look at the head gaskets, the 7th gen is the bottom one.
If you look close the 7th gen has an extra oil drain in the middle on the exhaust side, this is just a drain for oil to come from the head into the block and has no pressure on it, this will be handled the same way as building a "G" series franken engine (I have built 5+ of them) which is combining a F block with a H head which also had exactly the same issue where there was an extra oil drain, most will just fill it with silicone, and this usually works just fine, but me being the perfectionist A$$ that I am I prefer to tap it out for a blind pipe plug and seal it that way. Also I would use 6th gen head gaskets. Other than that the heads bolt up quite nicely.
Next we will look at the timing belt and cam/crank sensors.
First lets look at a J35A4 front head and a J30A4 front head side by side.
Now lets look at the head gaskets, the 7th gen is the bottom one.
If you look close the 7th gen has an extra oil drain in the middle on the exhaust side, this is just a drain for oil to come from the head into the block and has no pressure on it, this will be handled the same way as building a "G" series franken engine (I have built 5+ of them) which is combining a F block with a H head which also had exactly the same issue where there was an extra oil drain, most will just fill it with silicone, and this usually works just fine, but me being the perfectionist A$$ that I am I prefer to tap it out for a blind pipe plug and seal it that way. Also I would use 6th gen head gaskets. Other than that the heads bolt up quite nicely.
Next we will look at the timing belt and cam/crank sensors.
Timing componets time.....
The cam sensors are on the front cylinder head, the 6th gen has two of them while the 7th gen has one, also the tooth pattern on the cam gears are very different, so the gear and front rear timing cover and sensors must be used.
6th gen
7th gen
Now the 6th gen cover will bolt up to the 7th gen head, the only issues being that there a piece of casting that has to be removed to fit the second 6th gen cam sensor and the sensors them selves need to be shimmed back about 5mm, neither of these is a big deal, add some washers to the bolt where the sensor bolts into the cover and the casting piece can eaisly be removed with a dremel tool. Here is a pic showing the casting interference.
Once this is done all that is left are the cam gears, the position of the cam gear landing is a little different between the 6th and 7th gens, the 6th gen cam snout is a little longer (2.5mm) as shown below.
6th gen
7th gen
this can be fixed by making a 2-3mm shim out of good aluminum or stainless tube stock and even after the shim is added the cam gears still have plenty of keyway keeping them in place, and yes the keyways do match up in relation to cam rotation.Here are some pics with the 7th gen heads and timing componets in place.
So it is very possible to put 7th gen heads and cams onto a 6th gen block, the larger valves and more aggresive 07 TL-S cams are now avalible to the 6th gen. Also the intake patterns are the same between 6th and 7th gen heads, although going with 7th gen heads you do lose the direct beathing of crank case gases (which we don't want anyway for performance) into the intake ports. Also 6th gen valve covers fit perfectly onto the 7th gen heads.
The cam sensors are on the front cylinder head, the 6th gen has two of them while the 7th gen has one, also the tooth pattern on the cam gears are very different, so the gear and front rear timing cover and sensors must be used.
6th gen
7th gen
Now the 6th gen cover will bolt up to the 7th gen head, the only issues being that there a piece of casting that has to be removed to fit the second 6th gen cam sensor and the sensors them selves need to be shimmed back about 5mm, neither of these is a big deal, add some washers to the bolt where the sensor bolts into the cover and the casting piece can eaisly be removed with a dremel tool. Here is a pic showing the casting interference.
Once this is done all that is left are the cam gears, the position of the cam gear landing is a little different between the 6th and 7th gens, the 6th gen cam snout is a little longer (2.5mm) as shown below.
6th gen
7th gen
this can be fixed by making a 2-3mm shim out of good aluminum or stainless tube stock and even after the shim is added the cam gears still have plenty of keyway keeping them in place, and yes the keyways do match up in relation to cam rotation.Here are some pics with the 7th gen heads and timing componets in place.
So it is very possible to put 7th gen heads and cams onto a 6th gen block, the larger valves and more aggresive 07 TL-S cams are now avalible to the 6th gen. Also the intake patterns are the same between 6th and 7th gen heads, although going with 7th gen heads you do lose the direct beathing of crank case gases (which we don't want anyway for performance) into the intake ports. Also 6th gen valve covers fit perfectly onto the 7th gen heads.
lost me after 2nd
03-08-2009, 03:40 PM
#16
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
7th gen Accord V6-Similar to the 3rd gen TL's
6th gen Accord V6-Similar to the 2nd gen TL's
There are what they call a 1st gen J-Series engine and a 2nd gen J-Series engine.
1st gen J's consists of:
J30A1
J30A2
J32A1
J32A2
J35A1
J35A4
2nd gen J's consists of
J30A4
J32A3
J32A4
J32A5
J35A6
J35A7
J35A8
J35A9
6th gen Accord V6-Similar to the 2nd gen TL's
There are what they call a 1st gen J-Series engine and a 2nd gen J-Series engine.
1st gen J's consists of:
J30A1
J30A2
J32A1
J32A2
J35A1
J35A4
2nd gen J's consists of
J30A4
J32A3
J32A4
J32A5
J35A6
J35A7
J35A8
J35A9
03-08-2009, 07:06 PM
#20
268hp 301tq @7.8psi
Thread Starter
i put them next to a set of 99 heads ive been workin on for a freind,both intake and exsaust valves are bigger.cams?im not sure the spec yet but durations are longer and bigger combustion chamber.i think it changes compretion ratio too ? not sure yet.they look the same except for the exsaust ports.a little different.
03-08-2009, 10:52 PM
#22
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
i put them next to a set of 99 heads ive been workin on for a freind,both intake and exsaust valves are bigger.cams?im not sure the spec yet but durations are longer and bigger combustion chamber.i think it changes compretion ratio too ? not sure yet.they look the same except for the exsaust ports.a little different.
Spoolinspoon (Eddie) has the TL-S cams on his build.
Also Bowlgers, cams do not change compression, however certain cams love the higher compression and work well with them.
You're static compression may be affected.
03-09-2009, 06:12 PM
#24
268hp 301tq @7.8psi
Thread Starter
Tom, the heads will work but the oil passages will not line up. Not worth it IMO unless you got it free or you've already purchased it. You could go with TL-S cams, springs, and retainers with minor modification if any.
Spoolinspoon (Eddie) has the TL-S cams on his build.
Also Bowlgers, cams do not change compression, however certain cams love the higher compression and work well with them.
You're static compression may be affected.
Spoolinspoon (Eddie) has the TL-S cams on his build.
Also Bowlgers, cams do not change compression, however certain cams love the higher compression and work well with them.
You're static compression may be affected.
probly could modifcated to work but f that. new seals portnpolish ebay they go
03-09-2009, 07:00 PM
#26
Safety Car
iTrader: (5)
Ah, I'm sorry I misinterpreted from your post.
Now yes you could raise compression by playing with the head gasket thickness and/or milling the head.
As far as pistons if you want a nice compression bump the RL's are the way to go. You could get the cams brand new from Acura and put them in your heads. Also companies such as P2R and Bisimoto can do cam regrinds.
Now yes you could raise compression by playing with the head gasket thickness and/or milling the head.
As far as pistons if you want a nice compression bump the RL's are the way to go. You could get the cams brand new from Acura and put them in your heads. Also companies such as P2R and Bisimoto can do cam regrinds.
03-09-2009, 08:14 PM
#27
Senior Moderator
03-09-2009, 09:43 PM
#29
268hp 301tq @7.8psi
Thread Starter
Ah, I'm sorry I misinterpreted from your post.
Now yes you could raise compression by playing with the head gasket thickness and/or milling the head.
As far as pistons if you want a nice compression bump the RL's are the way to go. You could get the cams brand new from Acura and put them in your heads. Also companies such as P2R and Bisimoto can do cam regrinds.
Now yes you could raise compression by playing with the head gasket thickness and/or milling the head.
As far as pistons if you want a nice compression bump the RL's are the way to go. You could get the cams brand new from Acura and put them in your heads. Also companies such as P2R and Bisimoto can do cam regrinds.
03-10-2009, 09:25 PM
#34
268hp 301tq @7.8psi
Thread Starter
im waitin to see that turbo. i picked up a pretty f@#ked up 03tl-s at a salvage action today.that just might happen.so rl pistons do u have to change the crank?if im going to do this im going to do it right.when i get that shit box to my shop tommarow will determine what i do it was 1800 bucks if i can fix it i will if not i hack it apart
03-10-2009, 09:31 PM
#36
Senior Moderator
03-10-2009, 09:32 PM
#37
Senior Moderator
im waitin to see that turbo. i picked up a pretty f@#ked up 03tl-s at a salvage action today.that just might happen.so rl pistons do u have to change the crank?if im going to do this im going to do it right.when i get that shit box to my shop tommarow will determine what i do it was 1800 bucks if i can fix it i will if not i hack it apart
Use the search button for "3.5"
03-10-2009, 09:36 PM
#38
268hp 301tq @7.8psi
Thread Starter
03-10-2009, 09:54 PM
#40
268hp 301tq @7.8psi
Thread Starter