BakedWafer

This is the most ridiculous statement anyone can make. Seriously, I've seen this so many times on this board. "You guys just own real nice Honda's!"

1.) Acura is a lot more than just a real nice Honda. If you have driven the Honda V-6 or the 4-Cylinder Cars, they are in fact a joke in comparison to the TL-S/CL-S

2.) If you do believe in you perpetuated lie about Honda's/Acura's just being the same cars and are just "REAL NICE" versions of their little brother. Then answer me this. Honda and Acura are two completely different entities. They are not Subsidiaries of each other nor are they really connected at all. But since my CL-S is just a real nice Honda doesn't that in fact mean that the Aston Martin V12 Vanquish is just a real nice, I mean real nice (http://www.astonmartin.com/base.html) Ford Mustang SVT Cobra Coupe. I mean Ford does make Aston Martin and if you go to http://www.ford.com you can see it plan as day. I never knew that if a Focus ZX3, Jaguar X-Type (http://www.x-type.com/index.cgi) and a Volvo S80 pulled up next to each other on the street they would all just be, in your theory, just a real nice Ford ZX3. To you guys, who doubt Acura, obviously think that the Focus ZX3, Volvo S80, Jaguar X-Type, Lincoln LS and finally the Mazda 626 and Millennia are all the same vehicles and deserve the same credit as their other family counterparts. This is the dumbest argument I have ever heard in my entire life.

3.) I bet you the people that drive their Cadillac’s around wouldn’t be too happy to know this either. That fancy car that they think they have is just about as nice as the finest outhouse wallpaper (Saturn SC-1) this side of the Mississippi State Line. Cause a little known fact is General Motors does make Buick, Cadillac, Hummer, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall. For those of you that don’t know about Vauxhall (http://buypower.vauxhall.co.uk/index.jhtml) that is the link.

4.) In conclusion, the next time you are at a stop light in your Acura CL-S/TL-S sit back and relax and be soothed by the fact you just have a real nice, I mean real nice…. That’s right…. Honda Accord. And when you get to the next light look to your left and look at Great Grandma Maude in her Cadillac STS or that young business executive to your right in his Jaguar X-Type, make the motion to roll down the window and instead of asking for some Grey Poupon just let him/her know he or she is driving a real nice, I mean real nice Ford ZX3. (Insert your favorite CD and drive off in your Honda)

5.) Until my installment next week….

dean078

a tl/tl-s is a honda, but it's not an accord.

in japan, there's an accord AND a tl (under a different name, but under the honda label).

so if a tl/tl-s is an accord, then in japan, they sell an accord under 2 names?

and that platform sharing argument doesn't hold...the a4 and a6 are based on a passat platform, but they are different cars also.

and further, a cl/cl-s IS PURELY ACURA...there is no honda counterpart anywhere in the world.

but i do believe that honda and acura are 2 separate entities...they are not independent from each other, and honda is the parent of acura, but they are separate entities...you can't go to a honda dealer and ask for an rsx (in the u.s. anyway).

and even further, a tl/tl-s/cl/cl-s is far more removed from an accord than a lexus es300 or an infiniti i35 is removed from a camry or a maxima. there are more differences that make a tl/cl a "different" car than just changing sheetmetal and adding on luxury features, such as the heart of the car (engine) and other major components (tranny/suspension/etc.)

kuan48

I have no idea of what you are trying to say.
What is your point?
Try again!!

BakedWafer

The end is obviously sarcastic as can be to make the point.

jbrown

I don't know about you guys, but I make my checks payable to "American Honda Finance Corp", sounds like a Honda to me. And you know what, I'm fine with that, my TL-S is a damn fine automobile, so is an Accord. I wouldn't give a sh1t if it said Honda on it or not, it's still the best car I have ever owned.

I also think bakedwafer is a little slow, ever count the number of Honda stickers on miscellaneous parts under your hood? Yep, the same company that makes the Honda Accord makes our stuff too, and on the same platform no less! The Jaguar/ZX-3 was a little extreme, but did you know that the Jag XK-8 and Aston DB-7 share a platform (and several parts), but there is a $60,000.00 difference? The Aston Martin buyers know this, and they appreciate the difference. You should too.


I love my car!

hooked2TL

Well, Honda or Acura, this company makes great cars among other products that we can be proud of to own. I mean, this is not the same with other mixed marriages like Chryler/Benz or Ford/Jaguar. I think the gap is much wider with those other companies than Honda/Acura just in terms of product differences, quality, etc. I can be proud to say i own a Honda more so than saying i have a Ford. The bottom line is that not only is Acura owned by Honda, the impression is that they're certainly much more similar in that these two divisions make excellent products in their respective segments, and yes, certain models share some parts. So if Acura shares some Accord stuff, it's excellence that they share anyway, and we'd be proud of it either way.

I would certainly not want to hear that my jag is just a glory Ford, but for the most part, don't mind hearing from those who don't know much that my TL is just a glorified Accord cuz Accord is excellent to start, concluding that TL is even better. So, Accord is by its own term, an excellent car. But i can't say the same thing abou Fords, generally.

oracion

Who cares about whoever said that? I'm not upset or annoyed by people making comments like that. Hey, did you tell them: "So what?" On the same token, they can say a LS is a just Toyota, an A8 is a VW, etc. As long as you like you car, that's fine.

typeSmaximum

The TL is a Honda through and through. He doesn't even have to look under the hood, look at your glass. You can even buy the Type S version as a Honda Inspire I believe in Japan. Its not an accord, and pretty far from, but it is a honda. Who cares. Anyone that gets upset over somethin like this, is simply trying to pretend they have somethong more then they really have and bought into the "name" thing.

If I get a "Nice Honda". Thanks, who cares. I didn't buy it becuase of the name, but because it was the best car for the money to me, and Honda doesn't sell it here. If I get a "nice accord", then I might say its a TL, but that has not happened. I wasn't out looking for a "Acura" to look special. Most cars are all cross breeded anyhow This is a silly topic. One reason lexus is removing all tags and some of its line-up from toyota the next model year. Lexus will be Lexus in japan soon.

iatacs19

Acura is part of Honda technically and financially. Meaning the money goes all to Honda and Honda distributes it around.
As for the cars i think they are different cars. Accord in USA = Accord in Japan. TL in USA = Inspire in Japan. So the cars themselves are different machines altogehter.


The Acura badge is mostly an image thing the japanese thought up to compete with the europeans, MB, BMW, etc. They needed a new philosophy for americans to believe that their cars could compete against the european luxury cars. Well you know the story...

RedLined

I don't care if people think I drive a nice Honda or an Acura or whatever -- either way it's a damn fine car.

The Acura name and division (if you could call it that) really was created for marketing reasons in the US. It was spun off so Honda could make a nicer car, charge a higher price, and people wouldn't say "You paid WHAT for a Honda?!" Also, I don't think the Aston Martin analogy applies. Ford purchased a company (Aston Martin) that already existed. They didn't create it to sell up-market cars. Although I'm sure they share some Ford parts, it's no quite the same.

Finally, we really do drive a really nice Honda.

mgs333

people like you are why there is even an 'acura' brand in the first place. i don't mean any offense by that, it's the truth.

BakedWafer

I think this is funny. Good comments guys. Going to bed..

Lates

evolaerok

Don't worry, who gives a f**k what they say. You know what? Most of my friends who say that s**t drives mitsu's or hyundai's. So I don't worry much. And my friends who own bimmers that say that? Well I just spank there cars with my honda. Just love your car because you do, don't let any stupid s**t bother you on you owning your car.

Davidas

All the division such like Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, Cadillac for GM and Acura for Honda, and Lexus for Toyota are just a marketing strategy by car company.

Guest

That statement is a little off, The Lexus ES shares only 21% of it's parts with the Camry, as opposed to the TL which shares 52% of it's parts with the Accord. I'm glad that Acura put some distance between the TL and the TLS cosmetically, and even more between the Accord, although to some it's still too close at first glance. I'm also glad they redesigned their SUV, as the old one looked too similiar to the Isuzu from which it borrowed from. Same with the Vigor, very Accord-like.

Closer

psshh...

Yeah, that nsx.. ain't nuthin but a real nice honda.

NO ****!

Guest

The other thing also, marketing is not necessarily the reason separating themselves from their lesser priced siblings. Luxury features are plentiful in the "entry level" Acura, whereas they are not sometimes available in a "loaded" Honda. What I don't understand is why Honda and Toyota never rank as high for customer service as Acura and Lexus ?! Money can't be the sole reason, because Saturn is consistently in the mix. I could buy a 3-year old ES for under $25k from Lexus and still be treated better than someone buying a $29K Avalon from Toyota ! My biggest question is whether Acura will forego "elitism " (ala Lexus, MB, and BMW) for better market share, or inflate TL/TLS prices eventually to discard the "entry" label ?

AccordV6er

BTW they are the same. TL and Accord are built in the same factory right along side each other

Guest

I still don't think the automotive world views the NSX as a contender, like Porsche or Ferrari (heck, even Corvette) as evidenced by it's sales figures. Maybe because it's newer, no real history, but most people won't consider it with $85K in their hand. Granted, the body is beautiful, but when you tell someone it's an Acura, reactions range from surprised to confused, even disappointed (maybe that it's not some Italian car factory). I've sat in one (1996) and wasn't that impressed with the interior, ironically it felt Honda-like, which I myself don't want to be reminded off when spending that much money, otherwise it was comfortable. It's alot of car for the money, but maybe that's the point, people with supercars probably don't worry about the money to begin with.

dean078

i'm not talking quantity of parts shared, i'm talking quality of parts.

the most important part of any car, the engine, is basically the same on the camry and es300 (both 3.0l, both close to 200hp with the difference being made by the exhaust/intake and small crap like that). the engine is the same on the i35/max.

the tl/cl engine is 3.2l, the accord is 3.0. the intake is different, the exhaust is different, the tranny is different.

check out wheelbase:
tl: 108.1in
accord: 106.9


i35: 108.3
max: 108.3

es300: 107.1
camry: 107.1

sure, you can put 100 different switches and buttons in the es300 than in the camry and increase your % of different parts.

but the different engine and the different wheelbase (which require more engineering than replacing switches) only count as 2 differences. in my book, those "engineered" differences count more than just using different miscellaneous parts.

jbrown

I would still rather own my TL-S than ANY Toyota or Lexus, Nissan or Infiniti, Ford, Lincoln or Mercury, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, or Cadillac.

Hey TedC, if you don't like the current NSX, which I'll admit was always about 30-40HP away from being a "contender", check out the new NSX, it's gonna be baaaaaad!

BakedWafer

This post would get up fired up. Lates

Pin0yDrag0n56

Hey thanks! Oh well, I guess I have to agree. But at least I don't feel so high up sitting in my car as I do in the TL. Must be because of the standard heated seats and sunroof.

gohawks63

As has been mentioned by others.....

Infiniti (high end Nissan)
the I30/I35 is a dressed up Maxima (same engines)
QX-4 is a dressed-up Pathfinder (same engines)

Lexus (high end Toyota)
ES300 is a dressed up Camry (same engines)
LX470 is nothing more than a rebadged Land Cruiser (same engines)
RX300 is a dressed up Highlander (same engines)

Acura
TL is a high end Accord (TL has a higher end version of the Accord engine)
Integra was a dressed up Civic (depending on trim, different engines)
EL (in Canada) is a Civic (same engine)

Jaguar/Lincoln
S Type is a dressed up Lincoln LS (same engine)

Audi
A4 is a dressed up Jetta (same engine)

And not to mention the Grand Prix is a Monte Carlo is a Regal or a Bonnevile is an Aurora argument (depending on trim, same engines).

You can go on and on.

Who cares, bottom line is I love my car.

Just enjoy.

1SICKLEX

MDX =Honda Odyssey
Technically speaking the Camry platform spwaned the ES, Solara, Highlander and RX and Avalon.
S-type jag=Lincoln LS=Ford Thunderbird
Jag s-type=Ford Mondeo (What we called the Ford Countor no longer sold here)

In America it's all about the "name" and hood ornament and marketing knows this.

However some of us don't care, we take ALL the badges off or put on the Japanese names.

I think the problem lies in the sharing of platforms here, for instance you can call an ES 300 an overgrown Camry but you can't call an LS 430 an overgrown Toyota (cause it does not share it's platform with one).

In Europe though Honda's are Honda's (the RL is still the Legend) and there's Toyota and there's Lexus.

So I guess marketing decides what to call our cars.

jbrown

1SUCKLEX, you just don't get it do you, you can call an LS-430 an overgrown Toyota.
The Acura TL IS just a really nice Honda...in Japan, the Lexus GS-430 IS just a really nice Toyota...in Japan, that's where all of these cars come from, isn't it? But no one in the US would pay $47K for a Toyota since they haven't established the name as a luxury marque (confused? see below), so viola, Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus were born, that part I think you got right.

BTW, I think you meant Jag X-Type = Ford Mondeo / Contour / Mercury Mystique

marque go to http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=marque

1SICKLEX

What the hell is up with you Aegen Blue Tl owners? Is that color a mod? You still yet to make a point bub. You are missing my point though, people call some cars overgrown Toyota's (mainly the ES and RX and LX) because of platform sharing and leave the GS/LS/SC/IS alone here in the US. The LS 430 is not an overgrown Toyota, it is one of the best Luxery cars PERIOD, not matter what it is badged.

Anyways to some people Lexus (or Infiniti or Acura) are just overgrown Toyotas etc...

My answer... YOUR POINT IS................

Oh the dictionary joke, how original........

And I told u to call me 3SICKLEX cause u have no respect......

jbrown

What is a "Luxery car"? Is "Aegen" a new color?
3D!CKSUX is a fool, in Japan, the source of some of our finest cars, if you want a LS-430, guess where you go...a Toyota Dealership! It is an overgrown Toyota, just not an overgrown Camry.

This picture can be found at: http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All...lineup/Aristo/

you may need japanese text support.

hooked2TL

How is it that Acura owners can accept that Acura cars are Honda products, but some Lexus owners can't accept that all Lexus cars are Toyota producst??

I guess they wanna stay as far away as possible from being described as having fancy corollas....

Guest

Hooked, you're obviously not reading the posts, this whole thread was started by an Acura owner denouncing the relationship between itself and Honda, not by a Lexus owner. Both Acura and Lexus have to assimilate yet distance themselves from their parent companies, refer to them when touting their success (reliability, awards, safety) and distance themselves when pushing the luxury angle. I owned a Honda Accord, but went the Lexus route because I liked the look of their vehicles. To me there is nothing that screams "Toyota" when I look at my GS, the same with the RX300, IS300, SC300/400/430 and LS430. I do think that the LX470 and ES300 don't go far enough away from their lower priced siblings to justify the price now. I like Honda, I just don't get alot of feelings when I see them (maybe the s2000, but I heard that will only be a limited run), there is nothing in the lineup that does anything for me now.

Accord----> Camry

AccordV6(basically replaced the Prelude)---> ?

Civic------->Corolla

CR-V------->RAV4

Insight---->Prius

Odyssey-->Sienna

Passport->Highlander ?

S2000----> ? (although I understand it will be a limited run vehicle)

? ---------> Solara(& convertible)

? ---------> MR2 Spyder (Solara conv. taking away some sales, plus questionable design)

? ---------> Echo (should get rid of this)

? ---------> Celica (decent power, different design)

? --------->Avalon (no Honda flagship ??)

? --------->Landcruiser (big bucks, but nice none the less)

? --------->Sequoia, Tacoma, 4Runner,Tundra (I think their truck/SUV line is a little too big, and didn't Honda have a P/U once ?)

? ---------> Matrix (IS300 Sportwagon type vehicle coming soon)

I obviously left out the Supra (and it's wonderful twin-turbo model) as it is currently not part of Toyota's lineup, it's hard to compete directly w/ the Vette.

What really surprises me is that Honda doesn't have a Avalon contender or Landcruiser type luxury vehicle, hence my nod towards Toyota. I will always be grateful though to my '93 Accord SE for it's reliability, which I could always count on, next to of course, my wife and my bulldog

thejavagod

My 2000 Accord had a better build quality than this TLS.

And money saving tactics like lack of a full size spare in a luxury car can get pretty annoying when you're in a jam...

I'm stuck driving at 55 mph waiting for my goddamn tire which is special ordered because it isnt available off the shelf !! The least Acura could do was to offer a full size spare - Acura does not know the first thing about ownership experience

LarryLynx

Hey, we all bought into the idea of more car for less money. However, some have not yet accepted the other side of the equation...the fact that less money also means less car. Honda/Acura had to cut corners both in equipment/materials and in production time to hurry and get this car to market ahead of the other makes that they new were in the pipeline, and at a price that they knew would make it a winner. I can accept that, AND the fact that it's just a short jog accross the lot to his little brother, the Accord.

What is the big deal?

DJ Iceman

I'm not trying to get people fired up again, but isn't the Lexus LS430 a rebadged Toyota Avalon?

gohawks63

NO WAY. Two different cars.

LS430 is bigger, also RWD vs, FWD in the Avalon.

AcidHorse

If all these carmakers are reading this post right now, they'll be laughing their asses off. Besides, why do you guys think these carmakers (Honda, Toyota, Nissan) created Acura, Lexus and Infiniti? To fool consumers into shelling out more money for the same products adorned by an "L", "A" or a sideways 8 infiniti symbol.

Most people out there are not car enthusiasts like some people, but most of the general public buy these entry level makes to get a status symbol, which means a lot in American life. Can't you guys tell that these jap carmakers spent a lot of money to research the american lifestyle only to find pout that a physical sign of wealth is an important thing in our lifestyle?

IMO, everyone that buys these luxury entry level makes jut got suckered into buying an overpriced Accord, Camry, LandCruiser, Maxima,etc.

Those jap car execs must be getting the time of their life thinking us Americans would shell out $5-10K for a Lexus,Acura,Infiniti badge on a Camry,Accord,Maxima, change the interior a little bit, put some wood in the steering wheel, put on some "chrome-ish" wheels and jazz up the paint with metallic flakes.

Face it guys (and I don't want to admit it myself) we're just victims of marketing ploys :o

kwanghun

Man!
I thought this topic was dead!
I knew I was getting a sup'ed up Accord when I got my TL.(I know now that the TL is actually the Honda Inspire in Japan)
And for a while I had a "Powered by HONDA" decal on my fender, that is untill that fender had to be painted.
I don't understand why anyone would get angry about someone telling him that the TL is no more than a nice Honda. In my opinion that is exactly what it is - a damn nice Honda that was badged differently for the NA market.

Thanks for reading.
KH.

1SICKLEX

jbrown (and hooked) I know the LS 430 is a Toyota in Japan. That is what I said in my post. Are u on medication? How could u miss my post. I said they are badged as Toyota's in Japan. How could u miss this. Or u want to flame me so bad u just REACT....

And I have no badges on a GS 400, and trust me I have gotten the oh it's a 300 dude who took off the badges trying to pose conversations and looks. But I do not care (unlike you)........

As I stated earlier the Avalon is off of a stretched Camry platform.

The Lexus GS/SC/LS/IS have their own platforms.

jbrown

Who needs medication? I think 1SICKLEX should look in the mirror the next time he asks such a foolish question.

jbrown

1SICKLEX, I am tired of this petty B.S., I will no longer respond to any of your posts, flame all you like, I will not respond, or even read anymore posts on this thread. Good bye, but not a good buy.

AcidHorse

Yeah, GS came from a Camry chassis
SC came from the Tundra chassis
LS came from a mixed Camry/Avalon chassis
IS came from a Corolla chassis. LOL!
:p
Git the freak outta here. Take your pudgy little self back to japland.