I mean I understand that there is more going on down there, but I really dont understand much more. Is it because you can rev it higher with a standard and get better control of your engine?? Im sure among other things, but I was just looking around at the CL board about the UniChip and I came across J.T.'s 3.2TL actually, and checked his sig for his previously new 6 speed CL type S and look at his 1/4 mile....nearly 14 flat!!! and with no SC or NOS, just with I/H

I havent seen a TL TypeS with only those mods do near that good, and the guy on here....sorry but I cant remember your name now :toothless

but with I/H/E and SC he is barely in the 13's....just doenst make sence.

 

Its weird... I don't quite understand why automatic is slower either. But I simply assumed that they are period. However, this one time I read in a magazine that super drag cars are automatic because manual shifting loses too much time. That just got me more confused!

 

generally, automatic cars are slower because:

1) Less gears (in our case 5 versus 6) - taller ratios - slower acceleration
2) power loss in the torque converter

 

Yeah, you lose about 10 to 15 percent of your power just through the slippage losses. A manual transmission is more direct with fewer moving parts.

Also, as mentioned, the gear ratios help make up for it.

Older Honda automatics were pretty good in terms of this, they were basically 4 speed manuals with a torque converter. Rough shifting but they shifted QUICK. No planetary gears involved.

 

yeah, something to also remember (which is evident by the name as well) is that the auto trannies do the work for you, which means they need to use available power to throw gears around. you're doing all the work on a manual. gear ratios have alot to do with the speed as well which corey415 pointed out. and last but not least, automatics are alot heavier due to more moving parts.

it's a shame in some way that the automotive industry hasn't come closer to the performance of a manual transmission with automatics, but i would have to say my preference is still with the automatic for ease of use.

SSTS

 

Automatic transmissions use fluid coupling instead of a clutch. This is a lossy mechanism.

That being said, once you are in a gear, there's minimal if any difference.

 

AUDI has designed a trannie that will come into play in the next few years.. it is an AUTO/SS trannie that shifts FASTER than manual and SMOOTHER than AUTO. didn't quite understand the concept but it basically takes th best from both worlds, the ease of driving an automatic but the sharp, precise shifting of the manual. it is said to be the next step in shifting.


HAHAHAHA, as I am writing this I just saw a recall for the AUDI A4, A6, A8 and the Passat. The rear axle has been recalled in over 800,000 cars, from as far back as 1994 A4's . HAHAHA, go VW go HAHAHAHA

 

Yep, it's called DSG for dynamic sequential gearbox.

It'll be interesting to see if it catches on.

As someone who drives in Rush hour with a coffee and trying to butter a hot muffin at the same time, I actually prefer to have an auto.

 

Autos are simply less efficient at getting the power down to the ground, but lets not forget also that an A/T car usually weighs more than its stick counterpart also.

 

All very good points, I guess you sacrifice some HP for smooth shifting. Also the member that I was refering too earlier was SCTL-SS, and he recently got a new 1/4 time of 13.689 - congrats and sorry for quoting the wrong time

 

The CL-S 6 speed dynos about 30 horsepower more than the automatic version, so that shows you how much more hp is used up in the auto tranny.

Granted, the automatic will shift quicker and with better timing than any human could, but it's hard to make up that 30 hp defecit.

The hp differeence it like a stock TL-P going up against a stock TL-S. (who would win???)

 

hmmm how sad is this, between a 6 speed TL-S and my A/T TL-P, there is a 65 whp difference....

 

Torque converter loss is big during acceleration. Even at constant speeds it is still lossy; that's why they have an interlock mechanism that effectively bypasses the torque converter for the higher gears. You can sometimes feel it engaging/disengaging (in any auto) when you take your foot off the gas at highway speeds and then reapply it.

The future of trannys lies in the manumatics (or whatever you want to call them). The new Audi TT tranny is a double clutched manual with computer controlled clutches. It has an automatic mode and a manual mode; I'm told you'd never know you were driving a manual while in auto mode. Because there's not torque converter it's equiv to a pure manual.

 

In an A/T, one "fan" is connected to the engine, another is connected to the driveshaft. There is fluid in between. This is the torque converter. Your using a thick fluid to transfer the energy from engine to driveshaft versus a direct mechanical connection. No way can it be as efficient. Put two fans together facing each other and turn one on. Watch what happens, the fan blowing the air will make the other turn. Now, imagine if you connected the two fans with a shaft. The second fan will turn with much greater efficency because they are directly connected. With the A/T 20-25% of the power generated by the engine is lost due to heat, slippage (the "fans" not turning at the same speed), etc. In the M/T it is about 15%. As mentioned above, the torque converter locks up in cruising. This provides a direct connection b/t the "fans" and increases the efficiency.

 

You also have the option of upgrading the torque converter on your car. Like anything, Acura doesn't necessarily use the most expensive, most efficient, or performance oriented parts on their cars. There's a certain level of quality that they choose for price reasons.

So you could get a more efficient torque converter that is better at transferring power to the wheels than the stock one. Right now the only application I know of for our cars is available through Velocity Resources but its included with a re-worked tranny thats built to handle more power than our crappy transmissions. The price is not cheap, we're talking about $3500-4500 for the tranny alone (doesn't include installation). There's also some disadvantages to going with a better torque converter... Most are also high-stall TCs. Thats good for 1/4 mile track purposes because you'd be able to brake torque at a higher RPM and still maintain traction ... but its bad for everyday driving since you'll need to also bring the RPMs up higher before the car will start moving ... kindof like how if you start out in 2nd gear you need to give it more gas to get the car moving. This site although not for Acuras (its for LS1's) does a pretty good job of explaining the advantages and disadvantages of a high stall torque converter:

http://www.converter.cc/frequently_asked_questions.htm

 

TopGum is absoloutely right about the fluid coupling, that is exactly how a torque converter works. One fan into another but a transmission uses fluid instead of air. A modern torque converter has an additional piece inside called a stator. During "stall", when the engine has applied power and the car starts to roll (true stall would be holding the brakes and applying full throttle such as launching at the drag track), the stator actually locks and becomes stationary and acts as a third set of blades to re-direct the fluid and multiply torque. Most automotive converters will multiply torque 2 to 1 at stall, so if the engine is producing say 100 horses and 125 torque, the converter will apply 250 torque to the trans input shaft. Above a few thousand rpm's the stator gets in the way so it begins to freewheel. Without a stator or one that is broken, the car would be a dog and I mean slooow off the line. Automatics have a lot of moving parts that cause drag and they are heavy too, 245 pounds for one of ours, so the torque multiplication helps pep up the car and allows more of an economy, freeway final drive gear. A manual trans car will usually have more of a lower gear ratio to overcome the lack of torque multiplication. The differences are subtle, though. Honda automatics do use manual trans like guts, actual helical cut gears on shafts like a manual but the converter does have some frictional losses and lets not forget the pump in the automatic too, it supplies hydraulic pressure to operate the clutches, converter and lube for all the dynamic parts and takes power to run. Eric.

 

which car was he running?

 

:grenade:

I do all that with a manual integra...

 

A lot of you are saying that automatics weight "a lot" more. In most cases, two identical models equipped with stick and automatic respectively, come in within 20-40 pounds of each other. It's not THAT much heavier.

The main reason is because automatics usually have less gears, and is fluid driven instead of a direct clutch action.


In most cases, it's faster to have a stick, provided that you know how to drive well. But once you start talking 11', 10's, 9's, it's actually better to have an automatic with an upgraded stall torque converter. Less chance of a misshift, and the higher stall makes up for it.