rominl

ok, today (after the lovely ticket, damnit) i went to the dealer (acura of pleasanton) to get oil change and also some warranty work done. here's the outcome.

warpped rotors - they found warpped rotors on my car and all they could do was to resurfaced it, which is not what i wanted but it'd be tough to have them replaced it anyway... he said when i brake really hard the rotor will get hot and easily warpped. i was like i never really brake that hard (and i have never used my abs at all...) but he said it's the only cause. then i said no matter what a warpped rotor at 10k miles seem to be ridiculous, and that i am a member here and i have seen A LOT OF people getting their TLS rotors fixed under 10k miles. he said he has never seen it before and the second lowest mileage customer he has dealt with had 25k miles... i basically lost patience at him and guess i will just have to go back when it warp again...

seat belt squeaking - they couldn't duplicate the problem. great...... well at least they added more lubricant to it and it didn't squeak on my way home

moonroof rattling - finally they agreed that they found the problem and put on the tape thing and also TONS of lubricant. i still can't find where they put the tape on but when i open up the sunroof i can see lubs everywhere.... but it does help as i didn't hear anything at all on my way home.

so here's what i did today, got a ticket, went to dealer 30 miles away and got stuff done. they do have great service though, very nice people and very polite. and afterall at least i got a 01 tl as a loaner (though both me and my gf think that the car is not as comfortable as mine and the seats were just weird).

fahoumh

When I had the '00 TL, my rotors got warped at around 7000 miles. The dealer resurfaced them and they were fine afterwards. Do you want new rotors that badly?

Laurelcrest

How can I find out if I have warped rotors ? Is it something I should feel when i brake or is something only a dealer/mechanic can see? And is the end result of not getting it checked that my brakes will wear out? You guys are getting me nervous!

fahoumh

If your rotors are warped you will feel a pulsation in the pedal when you apply the brakes....I also felt it in the steering wheel.

pianoman41

This is a load of crap. A *big* load of crap. The rotor is *designed* to get hot--that's how brakes work. You turn kinetic energy into heat energy through friction. There are only three things that will cause rotor warping: (1) uneven cooling, (2) uneven torqueing of lug nuts, and (3) too hard of a compound of brake pad for the rotor. For uneven cooling, two things have to happen. First, you need to get heat into the rotors to get them hot. This is obviously done by stopping. Because the rotors are exposed to open air on both sides (in effect, they are giant heat sinks), they want to dissipate heat to the air rather quickly. The uneven cooling comes into play where the brake pads and caliper assembly cover the rotor. When the rotor is hot from a stop, the whole rotor starts cooling instantly after the brake pad passes over it. However, the part of the rotor covered by (and still in contact with) the brake pad cannot cool as fast because it is not exposed directly to the air. So you have 3/4 of the rotor cooling at one rate and the 1/4 covered by the pad cooling at a much slower rate. This phenomenon is what causes warping. Notice that the hard stop of the car, in and of itself, does not cause the warping. What causes it is the rotor to stay fixed in one place after a hard stop to allow uneven cooling. This is why you will hear people talking about "creeping" after a hard stop. If you brake from 120 - 0 mph you will heat up the rotors big time. If you keep the car still after a run like this, you have a very good chance of warping the rotors, even if you only did this one time. But if you can "creep" the car, advancing it every couple seconds by a little bit, you constantly move the covered area of the rotor and allow more even cooling. That's why you can do repeated hard stops with a car like ours (even with stock rotors) and not be in any danger of warping the rotors if you don't stay still for too long after the stop. Granted, you'll experience serious fade after about the second hard stop, but this is a transient condition of the rotors.

This is why you shouldn't wash a car with cold water when the rotors are still hot. The cold water itself doesn't really harm the rotors, but it causes the surface exposed to the water to cool rapidly while the area under the pad doesn't get any water and stays hot. That causes warping. That's why driving through a cold puddle on a winter day isn't the same thing--the wheel is in motion so the entire rotor gets wet and wiped by the pads (remember, pads are always touching the rotor, even when you are not braking), and warping is not an issue for everyday driving through puddles.

As for (2) uneven torqueing of lugs, if you don't have the wheel torqued evenly all the way around the rim, you can cause the wheel to "pull" against the spindle and it can warp the rotor. That's why a torque wrench and tightening lugs in a star-pattern is so important.

Lastly, (3) too hard of a compound of brake pad materials can cause premature wear on the rotor. The compound may further restrict the cooling of the surface area directly under the pad and contribute to warped rotors. Acura has a TSB on at least the 2002s with regards to the OEM pads being improper for our stock rotors and are a contributing factor to warped rotors.

The tape is clear so it's hard to see. If you open the moonroof, you should see it applied on the *side* of the opening of the moonroof--on the very thin metal edge that goes around the opening. You may see it on two, three or all four sides.

copland007

So should all 02 TLs be brought in and based on that TSB have the pads changed? Or is their policy based on an action-reaction where they will only change them only after the damage has been done?

rominl

yup i am interesting in knowing that too. and million thanks to pianoman41, your post was very informative

fahoumh

Yeah, mad props to pianoman41...I couldn't imagine what this forum would be like without you and Soundspeed.

pianoman41

I don't know if they will proactively change the pads if there is no warpage. Seems like the practical thing to do as it saves them $$$ from not having to turn or replace your rotors later on. I'd call my local service advisor and see what they have to say. I've got 13,500 miles on my 2002 TL-S and I have stock rotors and pads and have had no problems with warping (yet!) even after some very high speed stops. But I'm definitely keeping an eye on things.

I think a lot of it (like other warranty issues) is all in how you ask. If you show up at the dealer *demanding* that your pads get changed because you know about a TSB, etc., they might be reluctant to do it. But if you call up and just voice your concern over the brake issue--say, if it would prevent future warping you'd be grateful if they could do something in advance like replacing the pads--you just may get your wish. Some dealers (like PAA) are better at this stuff than others.

And thanks guys for the compliments! Like you all, I benefit a lot from this forum so I try to give back what I can on topics of which I have some useful knowledge.