Kevlar_RENAMED

I thought I'd let you guys in on my experience with my 2002 TLs.
I have ~ 22k miles and experiencing serious warp rotor syndrome (WRS). It first occurred at ~15k miles when the dealer Goodwilled me a rotor resurface. They advised me to keep the pads with since they had plenty of life left in them.
Now I'm going in on Monday 8/25/03 to do battle with them. Wish me luck.

As far as I'm concerned these rotors should have been replaced @ 15k.
So, they were able to true them with a cut, who knows how much they took off. Now I'll bet they're going to tell me there's not enough rotor left to stay within spec and I'll need new rotors. F*** that.

Don't want to hear about how the car should be babied or driven easy.
That's not what this car is for. How is this car marketed, certainly not for easy/laid back drivers? So don't give me any of that bullcrap.
I'll brake in the rotors if necessary, after that it's back to hyperdrive.

But wait, my wife drives the car all week and I only drive it on the weekends. So it's driven very easy 5 days a week and a little hard by me on occasion. So all that baby the car nonsense is just BS.

I could go on, but since it's my first post I'll take it easy for now and report back tomorrow after I pick up my car.

Thank goodness I found this site; it's armed me with some important facts that can't be found elsewhere. It's nice to know there are others who are advocates of the TL and willing to share their experiences.

jbx35

The rotors are not the problem, it's the pads that over heat the rotors and cause the warping.

yield2s

at 15k they should have replaces the pads and resurfaced the rotors per the TSB on the warpage problem. They know this, you know this, there shouldnt be any probs. good luck

Kevlar_RENAMED

Well, I worked myself up for no reason at all.
They replaced the front rotors and pads for free.
Resurfaced and installed new pads on the rear, oil change and a bulb replacement all for $285.
I didn't have to argue, nor did I say a word about the WRS. They just called me after they inspected it and said they were replacing them, No Charge.
Should I feel lucky, or maybe I shouldn't have doubted their integrity to begin with. I've always been treated fairly by this dealer, even going back to when I owned a '92 Legend which I purchased elsewhere.

I have a bubble on one of my rear side walls, so I need to replace 2 tires at the very least.
I don't mind the tires that came with the car, I would just like try something that performs better.
I'd like a performance tire with wet weather abilities equal to or greater than the original Michelins.
I personally feel the OE Michelins are pretty good in the rain, I'm sure many of you would disagree.
Any suggestions as to which tires I should opt for?

yield2s

glad to hear that about your dealer.

as for tire, I love my sumitomos htr+'s they are a ultra high preformance tire with a higher speed rating than stock. They are also all-season which is fairly rare to find combined w. above mentioned. I've got 15k on mine and am well over half life left.

Ryans04PrlTL

good deal must be nice with warranty glad to hear you got that stuff fixed mane

-Vip3r-

holy 5 year bump

01tl4tl

Its a nice reminder to people- that the dealer will often do all they can to help you.
They get paid by Acura for warranty work- just not as much as they can charge a customer.
Here in 2008- times are bad, and who is spending money on car service/repairs....
So the dealer needs all they can get from anywhere!

If you have a Gen2 transmission problem- even past the limits, or a brake noise issue in the newer cars,
be nice, have a positive attitude of: Acura WANTS to have happy customers, and be assured, you are not the first person with this problem!

Congrats to the thread reviver- thats using search for ya~
Was there something you needed help with?
the rotor problem is ongoing and there are good aftermarket ones ~less prone~ to it.

acitydweller

glad it worked out for you...

thisisnotdave

So 5 years later, how are those rotors doin?

My , resurfacing rotors is only a stop-gap solution as they will be left thinner and weaker than before, so eventually they'll warp again. Also from what I know, its not a good idea to resurface the rotors and throw olds pads on them, its better to wait for your pads to wear down to the point where you want replace them and then do both. Exactly what I'm gonna do when my dusty ass squeeky pads and slighty warped rotors finally kick it.

01tl4tl

dave- a few ideas more like that one and we are going to rename you- thisisnotso

Brake pads lose efficiency with wear- abilty to shed heat is decreased.
Add warped rotors and you have a poor braking system
You can usually resurface the stock rotors 1 time to cure a warpage if fairly new, but otherwise I would buy good aftermarket replacements and be done with it.

does anyone here still even have the original OE rotors on an early gen2- the fronts especially!

Gen3 seems to have a front rotor prob too- go figure. And the transmissions- just wait till they get more cars with more miles and we can compare overall stats

thisisnotdave

I agree that you will experience a drop in braking performance, but the severity of that drop is what should determine on whether you should wait for the pads to wear out or not. I get some wheel shake when and little feedback in my pedal when I brake from 50 upwards but the car still stops on a dime.


Oh and I'm pretty sure that my rotors are original, but hey who knows. Its not uncommon at all for rotors to last 5+ years, the ones in my dad's explorer are 6 years old and are flawless, no pedal shake at all. Really depends on the driver.

flying_bubba

I've got about 81K miles on my '00 tl-p. I have a 5 mile daily commute (round trip) and the rest of the mileage comes at 80+ mph on the freeway on trips. I do jam on the breaks quite regularly because of all the Ohio State Troopers on the road (Ohio has the highest, per capita, speeding tickets issued in the US). I replaced the front pads and resurfaced the rotors a long tome ago. The left front rotor became warped a few weeks/month and I am online now searching through the old threads researching my replacement options. My rear brakes are worn out for the second time. I resurfaced them a while back (oddly before the fronts) and now I'm looking at new pads and rotors on all 4 corners.

I've got a local mechanic that is fair priced and does good work, but I think he's inclined to put Bendix or Bosch on my car. I'm way too busy to do this myself right now. So, I'll ask him to do it, but I don't want to break the bank by asking for something beyond his comfort zone or that he can't readily get through his parts channel. It seems like Soda likes Centric and a few others like the Raybestos premium products. Any other suggestions? I don't need boy racer brakes. This is my daily driver and though I push it hard quite often, OEM replacement brakes have been fine up until now. Don't get me wrong I'd take better performance, but I'm after good bang for the buck.

Thanks,
FB

01tl4tl

I would check if the front rotors are working properly with that kind of wear ratio
A sudden ~warp~ in one side is very odd, and usually misdiagnosed
Should go thru 2 front pad sets before 1 rear
TL calipers like to seize or malfunction, especially if the brake fluid is not changed.
Centric is a good basic brand, if your guy likes german parts its because he works on german cars-
go find a honda shop for your car
The rears especially-- you need to know whats up- the parking brake shoes/drum are located INSIDE the rear rotors for example- tricks a lot of techs who leave the parking brake ON and the rotors will not come off~

flight2003

Make sure to tell them to only tighten the lugs with a torque wrench.

acutee

Rotors are the problem, Period. If you have rotors problem, do yourself a favor, get yourself a new set of good rotors and be done with it. Even if they are willing to give you another new set, they will warp again and again. They will warp in 15k. Time and headache is not worth for complaining for new rotors.

Friction produces heat; so what pads are not causing heat?

flying_bubba

01tl4tl,

Thanks for the advice. I don't think my mechanic is into German parts or cars. He does all-around work on foreign and domestic cars, probably more Japanese and American than German, but for some reason he mentioned Bendix and Bosch. Maybe that's what his channel has in stock or where he gets his best price.

I did checkout RockAuto, and that site rocks! They have great prices, and I am even considering doing this myself to make sure it's done right. It's been about 20 years since I've changed a set of brakes (I used to be very into cars and rebuilt my first car form the ground up). I am mechanically inclined (ME by trade) and I work as an aircraft mechanic for 4 years when I was in The Marines, but like I said in my first post, I don't have the extra time. A friend of mine really likes his mechanic that specializes in Japanese cars. Maybe I'll call him first to get a price before I give away a Saturday afternoon.

Thanks again for the advice.
FB

SodaLuvr

Bendix IQ and Bendix CT-3 are good products, but it's difficult to obtain where I live.

Bendix rotors should be fine I'd think, but Raybestos and Centric have better premium offerings IMO.

01tl4tl

This is a simple brake job for an A&P skilled person.
Between soda and I, a new ~corrected~ DIY will eventually get done with arrows and circles for special help and tips

njtls

imo, the only real cure for brake warping on 2nd gen TL's is a bigger rotor. the brakes on the TL are far to small for the weight of the vehicle. this is my opinion of course

oh and also...i don't think resurfacing a rotor is ever a solution, its like patching a sinking boat with bubble gum, your just prolonging the inevitable

01tl4tl

Heat and heat dissapation are the issue on rotors. Most of it can be avoided with skillful driving and a cool off drive after heavy brake use, other times its just what happens and you have no choice.

AMGala

iTrader: (4)

Brembo blank rotors (no slots or holes) are also a good choice, as well as Rotora blanks or slotted rotors.

flying_bubba

Soda,

I'm sure the Bendix are a good product, but they're 50% more than the Centrics and double the Raybestos! Are they better than either Centrics or Raybestos?

Which do you prefer as a good all around rotor Centrics (Part # 12040046 $47.79 ea.) or Raybestos (Part # 96795R $29.79 ea.)? Are the Centrics worth $20 more per rotor?

The rear rotors only amount to about $13 more for a pair of Centrics (Part # 12040047) than the Raybestos (Part # 96849R), so if those are definitely better, then that's a no-brainer, but what about the fronts? They do most the work. I'd love better stopping power and heat dissipation, as well as, longer life (i.e. no warping) from my next set of rotors.

Thanks,
FB

flying_bubba

01tl4tl,

I can't take credit for the A&P license. The Corps doesn't fund that kind of training. I did go through a turbine class on my own time, but my true MOS was Airframes specializing in Hydraulics. Ironically brakes were in my job description, but I haven't changed any since my first year in the fleet more than 20 years ago.

FB

SodaLuvr

Yup, which is why even a premium replacement rotor is going to have a substantially shorter life in this application.

I had no clue that Bendix rotors cost that much. I certainly wouldn't pay $80 ??? for a Bendix rotor.

The 96795R is Raybestos' "value line" rotors. The 96795 (no R in the part number) is from their premium line. It's priced a little higher than the Centric Premium. I think the less expensive rotors (probably lack OE vane configuration, metallurgy, etc) is OK for the rears, but definitely not for the front, especially in this application.

I think most "premium" rotors from a particular manufacturer is pretty good. I just wouldn't pay more than $50-60/rotor after shipping and taxes. If you order from Rockauto, do not forget to take advantage of the 5% off coupon code. Do check your local parts store for prices, they may be less expensive.

FuriousSam

Since we are on rotors here... I noticed that when I heavily step on my brake (like slapping it), I hear a screeching noise from the front driver side. But if I gently step on it to slow down, I don't hear it. Would it be time for new pads or maybe new rotors (just had them replaced last year)?

SodaLuvr

I would check the pads.

At least the rears are quiet now.

FuriousSam

The rear is really smooth, but the front sounds like thunder.

SodaLuvr

Thunder?

Yeah, pull off the front tires and measure the pads. If they have less than 2mm remaining, you're due for new ones. How many miles do you have on the front pads?

FuriousSam

Now that I think about it, it's the same pads since I had the rotors change...

Edward'TLS

No, that's no good. You must ALWAYS use new pads when you put in new rotors.

FuriousSam

I meant that I had new pads when I had the new rotors, but they are both a year old now.

3.2TLc

Beware of even the big name entry level rotors as they usually only will meet minimum basic standards. It pays to compare overall quality, not just a competitive price. But, as pointed out previously.....even the very best of rotors won't resolve some problems. Our TL's are showing some wear as they age. The brakes are subjected to alot of adverse conditions and tend to be neglected until there's an issue. Brakes should be checked regularly. Flushing and proper bleeding of the brake fluid is very critical, along with meticulous cleaning or replacement of all working components. Don't overlook the importance of the stainless slides/shims/pin sleeves/springs etc. These parts must all must be in perfect working order along with the calipers and pads to ensure even rotor wear.

wind'on'the'road

my opinion. cross drill and slotted rotor will solve the warp prob. I swear by it. live on an area with a big hill hywy and every day on it. the worst part is the exit is 9/10 to the bottom of this steep 3/4 mile long down hill and there is a traffic light about only 200 feet from the exit. when I had the stock rotors there was alway something with the front. try many different pads to no vail. Then got cross drill & slotted. problem solved! oh by the way time for new rotor at all 4 corners and got these at brakeplanet.com. Just wondering anyone got rotors from these guys? $250 for all 4 is too tempting.

Edward'TLS

Cheap cross-drilled rotors are usually rotor blanks but with holes drilled afterwards. Since the blanks are not structurally designed for this modification. This weakens the rotors and soon cracks will develop around the holes.

acitydweller

im using stock rotors with dual piston calipers.... no problems or warping here ...

01tl4tl

the perfect example of the very few who need crossdrilled on the street is presented above.
Coming down the big hills every day, with no cool off time, that destroys solid rotors,
sideslots will help there, BUT in this rare case- crossdrilled will cool faster and its really needed

flying_bubba

Just to update a few of you that I chatted with about my brake system. I did get my brakes done recently. I put Ate PremiumOne ceramic pads on the front with Brembo rotors and Monroe Ceramics pads on the rear with generic rotors that I picked up at a local auto supply warehouse where my mechanic buys his parts. The front pads were free from the last time I had them changed. I was shocked the local Meineke honored their lifetime warranty and let me bring in my own parts for the rest of the system. All told I spent $417 and that included them taking my tires off my old corroded factory rims and remounting/balancing them, with interior weights, on my brand new factory rims that I bought on eBay last year. I thought that was a steal, especially since the manager at Meineke upgraded me to Ate PremiumOne ceramic pads for free. It would have cost me $50 just to have the tires moved over to my new rims and rebalanced.

I was really impressed by the Monroe brake pads. The set included everything you need to do the job except the tools and the time and they are offering $15 off each pad set right now. So they were cheap and they're on the back if they're not great I probably won't know about it. I'll let you know how everything holds up, but all-in-all I think I've got a setup that is probably better than factory new and at a very reasonable price or a steal depending on who you talk to.

FB

ftLauTL

wordd