DocCat

In October, Infiniti will unveil the I35 sedan with the new 3.5 L V6 with 260 hp.

Advantage Infiniti: bigger back seat
longer warranty
all seats heated
more color choices

Advantage Acura: rear seat AC/heat vents
6 speed transmisssion
manumatic sportshifter
Hondas are better than Nissans

Disadvantage Infiniti: No rear AC/heat vents
only a 4 speed tranny
no manual/manumatic

Disadvantage Acura: smaller engine
shorter warranty
some say the styling is bland

What do you guys think? I realize this is an Acura board, but try to keep responses objective.

daverman

5 speed, not 6.
I don't know how Honda is "better" than Nissans exactly.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Advantage Infiniti: bigger back seat
longer warranty
all seats heated
more color choices


All heated seats is nice if you're gunna be car-pooling often in the winter, other than that, it's not a very significant feature (IMO).

Nissan's warranty is a paltry 3/36,000 --- what's Infiniti's, you're saying it's longer than Acura's 4/50,000??


Advantage Acura: rear seat AC/heat vents
6 speed transmisssion
manumatic sportshifter
Hondas are better than Nissans


You want us to be objective and you yourself are claiming that Honda's are better than Nissans? That doesn't do much for objectivity, but ok, it's your opinion. Our 5-speed tranny is significantly better than the wider, taller 4-speed tranny from Nissan --> this 4-speed was the difference (0-60mph) of 6.4 seconds and 8.1 in the Maxima (manual vs. automatic). That's a huge blunder I think .. the close ratio (at least the first three gears) of the Acura are what propels it to 60 rather quickly compared to the competition.


Disadvantage Acura: smaller engine
shorter warranty
some say the styling is bland


What does the displacement of the engine have to do w/ anything? The S2000 is only a 2.0 liter engine and if driven right, it'll whomp on the the TL-S in a straightaway (don't even get me started on what it'll do to the TL-S in the turns...). The Saab 9-5 Viggen is a 2.0 liter that produces 250 hp (w/ the help of turbos) and in the manual version will also take a TL-S in the straightaway. Need I even mention the '95 3.0 BMW I-6 from the M3?

I honestly think the Maxima's chassis feels a tad more rigid than the Acura's .. this said after having driven the '99 Max SE (friend's) extensively in very tight cornering maneuvers. Stock for stock, the Max handles better .. you may argue that it is because it's 300lbs leaner. Hence, I feel the I35's chassis will be tighter, and in the I35t .. if there is a touring edition (equipped w/ the max SE's sport package).. I think it'll be a gem. I just DON'T know what they were thinking w/ that 4-speed (other than less R&D costs) when they have a superb new engine that'll put out 260horse and 246lb-ft of torque.. that torque rating is what I can't wait to feel in the new Max this Fall.

Some people say bland Acura styling, some say elegantly conservative. Objectively speaking, I'm a engine, chassis and suspension guy ..I care more about what's under the hood and sheet metal than I do what's on the outside and in the cabin.

Good post, I'm looking forward to hearing what others have to say!

bioyuki

Screw the I35, wait for the G35 to come out. Based of the Skyline and the XVL concept, it'll have at least 260hp, RWD and the cool CVT. It'll be fast, semiluxorious and sporty as hell...

DocCat

Great posts!

I apologize for my blanket statement that Hondas are generally better than Nissans. Accdording to reliability data from Consumer Reports and Kiplinger's, Hondas are slightly more reliable.

The new I35 will come with a sport/touring edition which should kick some serious ass.

The only other advantage I can see for Acura is the Infiniti will have a rear stabilizer and not fully independent rear suspension.

Still, if they can keep pricing down, the Infiniti may be my next car instead of the TL type S.

the infiniti's warranty will be 5 yrs 60,000 per Infiniti.

daverman

Are they going to retain the rear beam axle design? It seems curiously ancient compared to the multilink independent suspensions of today.

DocCat

Yes, unfortunately they are planning to retain the rear-beam axle and not build a new multi-link independent rear suspension. They say that this gives a stiffer ride.

I think it's probably a ploy to save money.

LoveSick

The sad thing is that although the Maxima has a very nice chassis, but its low quality struts are prone to oil leak after a short period of time. Only the SE stock Tokico last more than 3 years.

ScreamingVQ

It maybe old, but its a very high tech beam design and it works. Its only disadvantage is when you there is a mid-corner bump when you are hussling. You should be driving fast around bumpy corners anyways :-) The TL-S still has a better ride/handling balance, better steering feel and high speed stability. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to keep a Maxima/I30 on track on the highway on a day with only 15-20mph winds. I would think the I35 would be in the same fashion. Even though the I35 has more TQ, I wouldn't think it will romp on the TL-S because of its tall gearing and 4speed design. If the transmission shifts at 6,100rpms instead of redline, like on the Maxima/I30, most likely the I35 won't touch the TL-S unless the driver shifts manually. I would like to see a sportshift feature on the Maxima/I35. The I35 cost more when fully loaded, but you get alot more features, convenience and safety such as Electronic brake distribution, Rear power sunshade, front auto up/down windows, auto open close sunroof, auto on/off headlamps, lighted guages, auto entry feature, Brake assist, Anti-whip protection, more passenger room and I do believe and option for side-curtain airbags. Is it worth it? Nah, I'd still take a 325Ci even though it is underpowered :-)

Only time will tell who comes out on top. Japans "big-3" are equal when it comes to quality problem free vehicles. I can't vouch for your statement "Hondas are better than Nissans." Styling is subjective, but I feel the TL-S with its low/seductive profile more attractive but the styling details are plain. Visa-Versa for the I30/I35.

CH-TLS

The Infiniti warranty is 4 yrs/60,000 - a little better than the Acura package. Infiniti also includes a loaner for all service, not just warranty issues.

The rear link suspension will disappear from the Maxima/I35 in 2003 when the car grows to "Avalon" size. The 2002 Altima already has independent rear suspension.

There is speculation that the 2003 I-35 and Max will go to a rear wheel drive layout in 2003, but I'll believe it when I see it on the Nissan website.

The G35 will provide interesting competition for the 3 series, A4, IS and baby Jag - too bad it's years over due. Nissan made a series of poor decisions in the early/mid 1990's that they're still recovering from (no V-6 in the G20 and Altima cost them big)

I was a bit worried when the French took over Nissan (well, at least a controlling interest), but it looks like Nissan might actually be getting its act together.

That said, even if the I35 was available in June, we'd have still bought the TL-S

rizwan789

if i am not mistaken. nissan/infinity have 4-spd plus OD, isn't that an extra gear?

ScreamingVQ

Nope, its still a 4 speed automatic. OD is 4th gear+lock up torque convertor. Its the same for the TL-S 5speed O/D.

ScreamingVQ

There is an interesting link about the future 2003 or 2004 6th generation Maxima http://www.autonews.com/html/main/st...issanqa716.htm I guess they are targeting the Volkswagon Passat W8?

heymista

Daverman - I'm with you on the suspension. That's gotta be the only vehicle over 25k that has a solid rear suspension. Also the 4 speed is a joke. I don't know what the price will be, but for me it's still a no brainer for the Acura.

acuraguynj

Infiniti has a great line of cars and trucks, but ask yourself who actually drives one these days?

I am sure there are a lot of owners out there and they probably even have their own website for Infiniti enthusiast like we have one for Acura, but again, who drives an Infiniti and what is it?

If you want to step to a Luxury brand, you hit Acura, Lexus, BMW, Audi, MB, etc....

My opinion or course.

tgif

Well, I did drive an Infiniti.

Infiniti did build good cars. The brand just suffer a bad start when it first introduce to U.S. I still remember those "Nature" ad about Infiniti. It shows nothing about the car, except rain, thunder, storm, etc.

Mythos

If you want to step to a luxury brand go acura, lexus, mb, bmw?


you sure about the acura part? We have a TL and an I30, and there's no doubt the I30 feels and looks more luxurious than the TL. The reason why no one drives Infiniti's has to do with Nissan's marketing. There's no question the TL is a great value and a very nice car. But, I don't think it's quality and materials can compare with Infiniti, Lexus, MB, and Bmw

ScreamingVQ

Agreed. Infiniti has won so many JD power awards for quality that many question why they don't sell as well as an equivalent Lexus. Nissan has poor advertisements and marketing. To some people, Acura wouldn't be considered a "luxury" brand. Just another Honda. Nothing wrong with that since Honda is an excellent engine company 1st, car company 2nd, which is why I love their VTEC engines. Ask a non-car educated person about Lexus or Infiniti and they would assume its a premium brand ranked high up with BMW and MB.

ScreamingVQ

Actually, Its not the only vehicle over 25K that has a solid rear suspension. I assume you only mean cars so I will list the cars that actually DO have them.

Volkswagon V6 GLS/GLX non4motion
Audi A4 1.8T/2.8 nonquattro

The fact of the matter is that people don't realize these cars have their "multi-link torsion beam axle" rear suspension. They only assume they have IRS because of their name plates yet only Nissan gets looked down on for using this type of suspension setup because he/she feels that this car company is cheap. News flash, they assemble cars just as good as any other Japanese or American made Japanese product, with the same level of fit/finish and build quality. Step inside one and you'll actually know. Geesh, know your stuff before you say it.

4speed is a "joke" yet the 2nd generation TL first started out with one

ScreamingVQ

Very dissappointing. Its a good thing they actually have good advertisements in magazines and TV now. The Q45 commercial rocks!

ScreamingVQ

Infiniti doesn't have their own forum. We have I30 owners bugging us in maxima.org

Your last sentence amazed me though. Most people, if asked about what Luxury cars they know would say- BMW, Audi, Lexus, MB, and Cadillac. Your Integra is cheapening the brand.

DJ Iceman

I'm sick of this "Integra is cheapening the brand" crap. Someone who is so much of a snob that they don't recognize the quality of Acura cars because one costs less than $25K, I guess should be driving a Rolls or a Bentley. Did the 318ti "cheapen" the BMW brand? How about the ES250 that got Lexus off the ground?

ScreamingVQ

That is how I feel. It my not coincide with your beliefs but please don't call me a snob. Its not the truth, its a subjective based statement. I'm not talking about Acura as awhole, I'm just talking about the Integra. Please understand that. I realize the quality of the 3.2TL/TL-S, 3.2CL/CL-S, MDX, RSX, NSX, 3.5RL/RL Premium. No one comes close to a Rolls or Bentley in quality so I don't know where that statement came from. I do believe the 1989 LS400 got "Lexus off the ground" in the Luxury segment, not the ES250. The ES250 was in the same class as the Nissan Maxima, Mazda 929, and the Acura Legend V6 L back in 1989.

TL4Mo

I think my opinion is pretty objective, my very last car was an Infiniti Q45....and I was pro-Infiniti to the hilt. Infiniti does build great cars (they are lacking on transmission quality; both Nissan and Infiniti issues). The sportier upgrade from the I30, the i35 did not do anything for me. It looks like what the 02 Maximas should look like (instead of the monstrosity they are). I did entertain the idea of an 01 I30 prior to the TL-S but the price was about $3k more and with less horse power. I could not find an MSRP for the I35 but can assume that it still will be more than the TL-S. In the I35's defense, the "sport package" comes with the auto shade (which I wish the Type S had) and a spoiler, on top of the 17" rims). Plus on the interior the gear shif is surrounded by wood (real wood) panelling (like my Q45). Acura definitely should have done a better job in that area (they are a direct competitor to Infiniti).

Just my 2 cents

Mythos

There is no doubt that dollar for dollar the TL-S is the better value when compared to the I30.

tgif

Mythos,

Is it becuase one is made in the U.S. and the other one is made in Japan?

ScreamingVQ

Where did that come out from? LOL

tgif

This is just my personal opinion.

rock

I was waiting a while for the I-35 to be unveiled. When I read the specs, I was pretty disappointed. I thought for sure the that Infiniti would use a 5 speed manumatic. Nope, still a 4 speed. Also, the spoiler is an option. It does not come with the sport package anymore. Probably a 500 to 800 dollar option just for the spoiler. The I-30s always used plastic wood trim. Hopefully the I-35 will use real wood, but I think they just changed the color of the plastic. The TLS had everything I wanted Infiniti to have on the I-35. Even though some say that the TL/TLS is plain looking, I think it looks more agressive and yet elegant compared to the I-35. At least when comparing photos. I still like Infiniti/Nissan, but for the money, I'll take a TLS.

Mr Hyde

Thats your opinion, but I disagree, I would rate Acura above Infiniti in the Luxury car class, and in recognition as well, and sales would support me. The Q45 established Infiniti as a luxury car, but the sales of the last few versions didnt do well at all. I absolutelyu loved the Q that was around in the mid 90's. Acura did even better with the Legend which is a Legend in its own right among the public and journalists. It did so well Acura abandoned the name to give their other models more recognition, and resorted to the alpha numeric system.

Personally as far as overall quality goes Ill rate the Honda above the Nissan amongst cars in the same segment. As far as what cars are in our current stable to lead me to this are

2002 TL-S
1998 Volvo S70
1998 Nissan Altima GXE
1997 Nissan Sentra GXE
1996 Accord EX

We also used to own 2 previous gen Accords(88 and 92 lxi and EX) and a 94 Maxima along with two more sentras, so my immediate family has owned several Hondas and Nissans to say nothing for my Extended Family which looks like it has stock in Nissan Maximas, Sentras, Altimas, and Honda Accords, and Civics. When we have get togethers neighbors have actaully asked if we know people who work for Nissan or Honda LOL.

Bottom line for all the hype, Acura/Lexus/Infiniti/Cadillac/Lincoln are all just marketing giimmicks which exist just in the US to make some think they are buying much more than they are, and guess what.........Its worked brilliantly.

ScreamingVQ

These comparisions are pretty subjective. Its just like reading a magazine and seeing a car rank first and thinking its the best car in the class. It really doesn't work that way in the real world. I accept your opinion but I still stand by mine.

ScreamingVQ

By the looks of your house and your 2 30-35K cars, you must be one rich son of a gun.

bioyuki

tgif--

can you please make your signature pics smaller?

tgif

It had been done.

lilboykorea

Hi, I'm 15, and I'm into cars as much as all u older guys out there.
Well I've been deciding between the I30t and TL, I wanted a Japanese sedan and those 2 were the only ones.(Lexus is too limo like)

I have a TL-S now, but before buying it I researched through many magz and sites about the 2. We've first decided to buy a I30 but TL-S came out, and gave a different story.

The I30 has more of an classic design, such an European car would have. But the TL is other had is pure Japanese styling. Very contemparory.

IF I"M GOIN TO BUY A JAPANESE CAR, WHY NOT BUY A CAR THAT SHOWS UP ON THE STREET AS SOMETHING DIFFERENT?

This thought came through me as I was traveling through US, and saw lots of nice cars. The I30, tryin to show a different image, will not shine through the many luxury cars such as BMW, M-B, Audi and such.... But the TL at the same price range will show something to the crowd.

Well thats what I think,

And I feel that ACURA is not a cheap brand, and the INTEGRA actually gains more popularity for ACURA, its not a cheap car, and its a total performer. Its one of the most popular cars for kids my age, and it can be easily souped up to perform better then many LUXURY-SPORT cars or coups. Just the price of the car will not "cheapen" the brand, look at the civic, civic souped up, with whole bunch of chips and electronics, it'll be faster then ferraris on the straighway......

I think that Infiniti is more of an family car, and the TL is more of a fun car. Even with the Touring Package, its not much of an difference. Like what's the side sill thing supposed to be? Aint it supposed to give an aerodynamic look or some type of look? You can't even notice it...lol...aite enough talkin ~~ haha

PCE...eat sleep and race...(on street)

lilboykorea

oh yea one more thing.... I30s mufflers are SO SO SO UGLY

why dont they juss shub it up a bit more so that it doesnt show the cheap metals?... useless...

Nissans make good cars, they are very dependable, but they've had a conservative mind for a while and juss since few years ago things changed to Y2K...

SoundSpeed

Nice points you made. Are you sure you are only 15.

tgif

15 years old shouldn't drive the I30. You are right, I30 is more like a family sedan.

Wow, you can drive in Canada when you are 15. In Cal, you can't get a permit until you are 16. And recently the State had add so many restriction on the kids that who are 16 and want to drive. For example, no driving between 12-6 a.m. Need an adult to accompany you. No same age passanger, etc.

Webologist

I view both the Infiniti and Acura as peers brand wise. I chose the TL-S over the I30 after closely looking at both for the following reasons.

1. Performance... the standard TL pretty soundly trounced the I30 in every comparo I've seen lately in acceleration. The I30 with the Touring package handled better though and I much preferred the I30 Ts Wheel and Tire combo. The TL-S increased the first item and rectified the second item.

2. Features... The TL-S comes standard with everything I want. You need to pay more to get HID and many of the other features in the I30. I did think the sun shade in the I30 is cool though.

3. 5 Speed automatic... This is a huge advantage.

4. Appearance... I think they are both elegant looking cars. I slightly prefer the lines of the TLS. This is subjective however.

5. I'm still concerned that Infiniti seems to rate their cars horsepower based on what they think they need to sell rather than what they really put out. From the QX4 to the I30 to the Q45 they seem to rate their cars about 10% higher than they actually put out. If you read the specs they should rule and dominate their classes (most horsepower/least weight) yet they consistently get beat by lesser powered heavier cars. It lessens my respect for the brand, but it does seem to sell cars.

Infiniti does seem like they are on a tear though, lots of exciting new models with very cool design elements and features.

Regards
-w

Guest

G35 is what we need to watch out!!!