DocCat

Here in Ann Arbor, MI the Lexus dealer conveniently built their new dealership directly across the street from the Acura dealer (go figure.)

So, after I looked at the TL-S, I looked at the new 2002 ES 300.

The Acura had a larger rear back seat which was nice, and the performance was much better. The Acura was fast, with crisp steering, braking and handling. It was also cheaper by a few thousand, even with the Nav system.

The down side was that the stereo system was vastly inferior, and some of the interior materials were cheap (the plastic wood).

The ES felt downright slow in comparison, but the leather, real wood, did make the car seem more luxurious. The Mark Levinson sound system was awesome. But, the car was a few thousand more and most desirable features were "optional" such as HID lights, heated seats, etc.

The warranty was better, and the ride was much quieter. The seats were better too.

I realize this is an Acura board, so posters will be biased, but what are people's thoughts???

DJ Iceman

It sounds like you presented a nicely unbiased review of the pros and cons of each car. They are clearly competitors, but I think they're aimed at slightly different sectors of the market.

rominl

yeah i think you did a good job in bringing out the goods and bads of both cars, very unbiased. and i agree with Iceman, that the cars are in the same category but they are aiming at different types of people.

BlackShadow

The TL-S is aiming towards the sporty side while the ES300 is aiming towards the luxury side.

BTW, that's why the IS300 was created (for the sporty side).

Thai.95LCoupe

Its just plain ugly... The interior is a different story, very nice especially the flip down navi.. but that design... Ugh! The camry's design is much better. By far in looks alone the TL-S has got it beat by farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

DallasTypeS

ES300 looks like one of those big water beetles you see creeping around a swamp....makes you want to squish it...

(also, looks remarkably similar to the new Toyota Camry...wonder why that is...)

evolaerok

My friend works at the Lexus dealer and he told me the ES is aimed more towards the Buick buyer crowds. So if you are that old, soft cushy riding kind of guy, by all means go with the lexus. If you want a nice firm, sporting, and tight handling car, then go with the Acura. Except the GS and IS, the Lexus line of cars are for "old folks". I tried to get my wife to buy a new RX300, but she said the handling was not reassuring. The MDX felt more planted down and road holding. I like the Lexus ownership experience and the build quality, but the Acura meets my needs of driving at a very reasonable price.

gohawks63

You know I thought the same thing when I saw pictures, but after actually seeing one in the flesh....er...uh...I mean steel, I have to say it's not that bad. I definitely like the the way it looks from the back and the front isn't AS BAD as I thought. The interior is another story. Top notch in true Lexus fashion.

As for who the cars are aimed at, I agree. I believe even a TL-P will out perform the ES300, but as mentioned I think the ES300 was designed to be a luxo-cruiser.

It all comes down to what your looking for. I'm sure Lexus won't have any problems selling every one that rolls off the line.

MedicSonic

The new ES300 looks like a Taurus to me.

thejavagod

I agree.

Its bound to have the "never say die" reliability of Lexus and the build quality is simply exquisite. It is very luxurious inside but rather stark and sedate.

I personally prefer the high-tech looking interior of the TLS with the white-faced guages. I have not heard the Mark Levinson for more than 5 seconds so I can't compare.

Outside the ES300 could very well be one of the ugliest cars I have ever seen.... from a distance the back looked like a very cheap Hyundai or Daewoo. It is downright nauseating to look at! Compared to this the TLS is just stunning!

1SICKLEX

DocCat pretty much hit it one the nose.

And the styling in person is much better than looking in the magazines. One thing Lexus is Outstanding in is details, styling that you don't notice at first but slight creases and lines in the bodywork that make a world of difference.

All the ES suffers from is the same thing 95% of cars suffer from, small diameter wheels in realationship to the vehicles dimensions, especially height.

It's the reason a tl with the factory 17'' wheels looks a lot better than one with the 16" wheels.

The ES is now even more luxurious and the next IS will be even more sporty (TRD supercharger due in May) to better differenciate each other.

zaptces

Well i gotta agree with the coments made about the TL-S and the ES 300. But when i went to the lexus website i went to the comparison section the had only had the TL as A KEY COMPETITOR not the TL-S. I like the Interior in the ES 300 looks very clean! i like the 3-spoke wheel. But the Exterior is ooogly just look at it ewwwwwww

WalkThisWay

The Cars:
If you want the ultimate in quality and reliability,,,go with the Lexus - - the TLS is not very good.

If you want the maximum in power and performance go with the TLS - - the Lexus is more than adequate for most, and still better then 90% of the market place.

The Real Difference - The Dealers:
The Houston market place is a very unusal place - 50% of the Toyota dealers offer and provide excelent service. All three Lexus Dealers offer and provide excellent service. The four Acura dealers SUCK BIG Time! At this point our new TLS is only three months old, and after Four Acuras and Two Hondas, this is the LAST Honda/Acura products we will own - NO MORE - You just simple can not get service on them here,,,,and I am not driving 300 miles to Gunn Acura In San Antonio for service!

thejavagod

You got that right! I have an incredibly busy schedule. When I had my Lexus the dealership would make all sorts of accomodations for me so that I would spend minimum amount of time during a service, once Longo Lexus even flatbedded my RX from my office and dropped it back....UNREAL!

My first service at Keyes Acura was terrible... I was given some oddball appointment time and even then they did not give me the vehicle back on time! Plus they were rude and treated me worse than I would be treated at a McDonalds....

they know very well that people will buy their product regardless because it is so damn good!

STAGED

These days it's hard to say one car is better than another and the question really should be: what's a better fit?

Lexus ES300: Buy if you value isolation. Don't worry about spending thousands more than a TL-S because Lexus cars have #1 rated vehicle long-term dependability. I have friends who owned Hondas/Acuras, Lexus, and our household has a Lexus and I noticed on the average over enough samples that Hondas/Acuras esp. in their 1st year of production accumulate far higher repair costs.

Lexus IS300: If you want truly harder-edged sport, then this RWD sedan is the ticket. Press says this car has sharper moves than BMW even, although a poorer ride/handling compromise than the BMW.

Acura TL/TL-S: The base TL is a phenomenal value, even if over 10 years you accumulate $1000-$2000 in higher repair bills than a Toyota/Lexus. This car gives you tad better prestige than a Maxima GLE for the same retail price and equipment levels as the Max GLE, Camry XLE, and even top-trim Intrigue. In fact I always lament the site of an Accord EX V6 owner who spends moola on spoilers, wood trim, and other dealer accessories that boost prices to TL levels. Finally the TL-S really breaks the dilemma a Lexus shopper has when looking at the cushy ES300 yet desiring the driving experience of the IS300. Plus FWD traction. Acceleration between the IS300 and GS430. What more can a driver enthusiast looking for a daily driver want?

1SICKLEX

STAGED, another great review.

Call me nuts but if you don't desire speed and want the upmost in luxury the ES300 is a LS 430 without the engine.

Considering the big price gap, I really do not see 1st time Tl shoppers seriously looking at the ES 300. I do see 2nd time tl owners looking at the ES 300 though.

thejavagod

I would stay away from the ES300...you never really know how the market is going to react to such an abomination, a styling disaster, an experiment gone horrifically wrong! The designers were definitely smoking something potent when they penned this monster!

How can one even begin to compare the styling with the likes of the C class, 3 series and the A4.... its even nowhere near the TLS! Most I've met admit that its just plain UGLY!

Also the dated 210HP engine makes the ES300 a whimp! The TLS would blow it to kingdom come...especially on an upward gradient!!

evolaerok

One thing with the daring style is that it won't get old. My TL-S at times is just flat out boring to look at. My friends GS never gets old. Odd at first, better looking through time and time again. When BMW first came out with the new 3er, people said it was "chubby" compared to the old 3er. Man to this day I miss the look of my E46 323ci. The style never gets old.

1SICKLEX

Yeah the Tl is faster (again) but that is not the ES 300's purpose. I am sure at the 3yr refeshning the engine will be updated.

So while the TL is faster the ES is the most luxurious 30-40k car PERIOD. It is the quietest. Most reliable. Offers MARK LEVINSON sound systems (because it is quiet). The smoothest shifting tranny (that reads your mind). The smoothest ride (not sporty, but smooth). Unquestionable resale value. PANACHE.

I think someone said it best that the TL is a great cross between the IS and ES, that was a wonderful comment I agree with.

And looks, well people will LOOK at the new ES (ugly or not) while most people hardly glance at a Tl.

Like I said, I do not see many TL shoppers considering the ES.