Used 87 octane gas - got great gas milage?
11-12-2004, 11:54 PM
#41
TL-S driver
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i had to use 87 once, my engine hated it! Definitely got more milage out of it 93 is cleaner so it burns faster. I recently drove to South Carolina (789 miles) and I got about 450 miles/tank on 93 and on the way home I filled with 89 and I got 450 with 1/8 left.
11-13-2004, 03:45 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by chrisandro
3.2 sohc TL engine does NOT have knock sensors.
And the C32 engine from the Legend and 1st gen TL have 2 knock sensors as well.
11-13-2004, 10:45 AM
#43
SCMPredator
Originally Posted by chrisandro
3.2 sohc TL engine does NOT have knock sensors.
http://www.new-cars.com/2002/acura/a...s.html#chassis
Please read section on the ignition system.
11-13-2004, 12:32 PM
#44
Drifting
Originally Posted by suj220
If you look at the gear ratios. It makes it look like this is it. Yet according to page 2-23 of my Acura Service Manual 99'-03', the Type-S has different gear ratios for 4th and 5th gear. The above mentioned page, is also slightly off with their gear ratios, but close enough. (only off by 0.001)
I also looked in my Acura Service Manual, and could NOT find any mention of a knock sensor, or any DTC relating to a knock sensor. I looked in the Index, Fuel System, Ignition System, etc.
If you refer to my Infiniti Service Manual, page EC-253 and EC-254, you get an electrical schematic of the Knock Sensor, how it connects to the ECM, and the DTC trouble codes associated with engine knock, and knock sensor function.
Until somebody posts a page reference in my Acura Service Manual, where this knock sensor can be found, I stand by my word, that no Acura TL engine from 99' - '03 has a knock sensor.
Surely Acura/Honda did not "forget" to put info on the knock sensor in their service manual. Both Infiniti and GM put information on it in their manuals, and both published the DTC trouble codes associated with them.
If nobody believes me, I can post pictures from the manuals if you like...
11-14-2004, 12:38 AM
#45
SCMPredator
Originally Posted by avs007
Just because it says that on some third party page, does not mean it is true. If you look at that page, it shows a table of TL and TL-S. Yet it shows both having a compression ratio of 9.8:1, when the Type-S has a compression ratio of 10.5:1 (Refer to page 2-22 of the Acura Service Manual 99'-03')
If you look at the gear ratios. It makes it look like this is it. Yet according to page 2-23 of my Acura Service Manual 99'-03', the Type-S has different gear ratios for 4th and 5th gear. The above mentioned page, is also slightly off with their gear ratios, but close enough. (only off by 0.001)
I also looked in my Acura Service Manual, and could NOT find any mention of a knock sensor, or any DTC relating to a knock sensor. I looked in the Index, Fuel System, Ignition System, etc.
If you refer to my Infiniti Service Manual, page EC-253 and EC-254, you get an electrical schematic of the Knock Sensor, how it connects to the ECM, and the DTC trouble codes associated with engine knock, and knock sensor function.
Until somebody posts a page reference in my Acura Service Manual, where this knock sensor can be found, I stand by my word, that no Acura TL engine from 99' - '03 has a knock sensor.
Surely Acura/Honda did not "forget" to put info on the knock sensor in their service manual. Both Infiniti and GM put information on it in their manuals, and both published the DTC trouble codes associated with them.
If nobody believes me, I can post pictures from the manuals if you like...
If you look at the gear ratios. It makes it look like this is it. Yet according to page 2-23 of my Acura Service Manual 99'-03', the Type-S has different gear ratios for 4th and 5th gear. The above mentioned page, is also slightly off with their gear ratios, but close enough. (only off by 0.001)
I also looked in my Acura Service Manual, and could NOT find any mention of a knock sensor, or any DTC relating to a knock sensor. I looked in the Index, Fuel System, Ignition System, etc.
If you refer to my Infiniti Service Manual, page EC-253 and EC-254, you get an electrical schematic of the Knock Sensor, how it connects to the ECM, and the DTC trouble codes associated with engine knock, and knock sensor function.
Until somebody posts a page reference in my Acura Service Manual, where this knock sensor can be found, I stand by my word, that no Acura TL engine from 99' - '03 has a knock sensor.
Surely Acura/Honda did not "forget" to put info on the knock sensor in their service manual. Both Infiniti and GM put information on it in their manuals, and both published the DTC trouble codes associated with them.
If nobody believes me, I can post pictures from the manuals if you like...
Please refer to the following website, directly from Acura/Honda:
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID3016?m...&archives=2002
Again....the section that says Ignition System. This website is directly owned, managed, and linked directly from acura/honda/corporate website and provides the relevant info on their cars for last several years.
11-14-2004, 12:43 AM
#46
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From Honda:
"DIRECT IGNITION SYSTEM/KNOCK CONTROL
While proper ignition timing is critical to optimized engine performance and emission control, proper timing depends on many variables and constantly changes from moment to moment. If there is not enough spark advance, fuel efficiency suffers. If there is too much advance, engine knock or even engine damage may occur. The TL is equipped with a new-generation knock-control system. Using a centrally located engine-block sensor that "hears" the onset of knocking, the system can advance ignition timing to the point of peak efficiency -- without going beyond. The system is even able to adapt if the quality of fuel used is less than the specified unleaded premium.
The ignition system further benefits from compact and reliable direct-ignition coil units, which are positioned directly in the spark plug access bores."
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID3014?m...asc&archives=t
"DIRECT IGNITION SYSTEM/KNOCK CONTROL
While proper ignition timing is critical to optimized engine performance and emission control, proper timing depends on many variables and constantly changes from moment to moment. If there is not enough spark advance, fuel efficiency suffers. If there is too much advance, engine knock or even engine damage may occur. The TL is equipped with a new-generation knock-control system. Using a centrally located engine-block sensor that "hears" the onset of knocking, the system can advance ignition timing to the point of peak efficiency -- without going beyond. The system is even able to adapt if the quality of fuel used is less than the specified unleaded premium.
The ignition system further benefits from compact and reliable direct-ignition coil units, which are positioned directly in the spark plug access bores."
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID3014?m...asc&archives=t
11-14-2004, 03:23 AM
#47
Drifting
Like I said, all it takes is a page reference in the Service Manual. I happened to find a reference to the Knock Sensor, on page 11-93 and 22-28 
But I must say...
the organization of the Acura Service manual really sucks compared to my Infiniti and GM service manuals. I can find almost anything quickly in those 2 manuals. For example: Why is a Cylinder Misfire DTC listed under Fuel Injection system, instead of Ignition System, like every other manual I've read? Why does the Engine Block, Cylinder Head, and Intake Manifold sections, show all the other sensors, except for this one? The description from the Honda website, says it's centrally mounted in the engine block, the service manual just says, "middle of engine compartment", and is somewhat vague in the picture. It looks like it's mounted to the intake manifold, but there isn't any detail to figure out exact location, unlike my other service manuals. Those describe the exact location, and even describes how it works, and how to remove it. The Acura Manual doesn't say anything, other than it exists "somewhere in the middle of the engine compartment". Also, since Honda describes this thing as "Direct Ignition System with Knock Control System", you'd think they'd put the knock sensor stuff in the Ignition System section, instead of the Fuel Injection System section of the manual...
Whatever... We can all sleep easy now, knowing our TL's are protected by a knock sensor
But I must say...
the organization of the Acura Service manual really sucks compared to my Infiniti and GM service manuals. I can find almost anything quickly in those 2 manuals. For example: Why is a Cylinder Misfire DTC listed under Fuel Injection system, instead of Ignition System, like every other manual I've read? Why does the Engine Block, Cylinder Head, and Intake Manifold sections, show all the other sensors, except for this one? The description from the Honda website, says it's centrally mounted in the engine block, the service manual just says, "middle of engine compartment", and is somewhat vague in the picture. It looks like it's mounted to the intake manifold, but there isn't any detail to figure out exact location, unlike my other service manuals. Those describe the exact location, and even describes how it works, and how to remove it. The Acura Manual doesn't say anything, other than it exists "somewhere in the middle of the engine compartment". Also, since Honda describes this thing as "Direct Ignition System with Knock Control System", you'd think they'd put the knock sensor stuff in the Ignition System section, instead of the Fuel Injection System section of the manual...Whatever... We can all sleep easy now, knowing our TL's are protected by a knock sensor
11-14-2004, 04:19 AM
#48
10th Gear
Buried on page 11-93 and 11-124 of the Acura Service Manual are references to the Knock Sensor. Also mentioned is DTC "P0325" (Diagnostic Trouble Code).
It is my hunch that absolutely 100% of all modern engines have knock sensors.
Regarding gas mileage vs octane — lower octane is only relevant during acceleration. The cooler the engine, the harder the acceleration needed to cause knock.
I believe that only when the knock sensor hears knocking, will the computer retard the spark. Then, sometime after backing off the throttle (seconds ?? minutes??) the ignition timing returns to the normal curve.
I wonder if some cars don’t also richen the fuel mixture to cool the combustion chamber when a knock is detected.
Point is, easy driving and cruising may not trigger knock, thus resulting in no effect on fuel efficiency. But if the knock sensor is periodically activated, ignition retardation (and mixture richening — if this really happens???) will reduce gas mileage as well as power. So an easy driver may have no ill effects using regular gas, especially in a non-S. But if you drive this car the way it was intended, you need premium.
BTW: Octane averages out. For example, if you have half a tank of 93, and then fill it with 87, you will have something like 90.
It is my hunch that absolutely 100% of all modern engines have knock sensors.
Regarding gas mileage vs octane — lower octane is only relevant during acceleration. The cooler the engine, the harder the acceleration needed to cause knock.
I believe that only when the knock sensor hears knocking, will the computer retard the spark. Then, sometime after backing off the throttle (seconds ?? minutes??) the ignition timing returns to the normal curve.
I wonder if some cars don’t also richen the fuel mixture to cool the combustion chamber when a knock is detected.
Point is, easy driving and cruising may not trigger knock, thus resulting in no effect on fuel efficiency. But if the knock sensor is periodically activated, ignition retardation (and mixture richening — if this really happens???) will reduce gas mileage as well as power. So an easy driver may have no ill effects using regular gas, especially in a non-S. But if you drive this car the way it was intended, you need premium.
BTW: Octane averages out. For example, if you have half a tank of 93, and then fill it with 87, you will have something like 90.
11-14-2004, 07:28 AM
#49
Kollage is funn!
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anyone here ever fill up sunoco 94? couple of my friends fill their BMWs with that but.....i've always heard that sunoco fuel sucks....if i ever need gas though, and there's only a sunoco i'll fill 94....don't feel a big difference though.
i usually average 22/23 mpg city, 28/29 mpg highway.
i usually average 22/23 mpg city, 28/29 mpg highway.
11-14-2004, 07:35 AM
#50
SCMPredator
most gasoline brands are the same except for a few..one of which is chevron and now shell.
but i dont have concrete proof...but i think amocobp fuels have something in them that differentiates among the other brands.
i've tried 94 octane before from sunoco...its nice...but i didnt really feel the horsepower differene from 93 in the TL. but in my 88 accord lxi....you can definitely feel the difference.
but i dont have concrete proof...but i think amocobp fuels have something in them that differentiates among the other brands.
i've tried 94 octane before from sunoco...its nice...but i didnt really feel the horsepower differene from 93 in the TL. but in my 88 accord lxi....you can definitely feel the difference.
11-14-2004, 02:13 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by suj220
i've tried 94 octane before from sunoco...its nice...but i didnt really feel the horsepower differene from 93 in the TL. but in my 88 accord lxi....you can definitely feel the difference.
11-14-2004, 07:27 PM
#52
Intermediate
hey all...
I have a '02 3.2tl type-s and so far have put in only premium 93.
After reading what you all are writing, im only get around 250miles per tank.
I've also seen some talk about how they only fill there tanks to 13 or so gallons. When I fill from a half tank to full, it is usually 6 gallons...well less than I would think being that it is supposedly a 17.2gallon tank.
Any ideas why the mileage would be much lower than most of yours?
No mods are on my car...just bought it 1-1/2 months ago from a dealership certified. they were telling me that i must be driving too fast at 70mph to be getting bad mileage..
I live in connecticut so the weather is seasonal.
thanks,
matt
I have a '02 3.2tl type-s and so far have put in only premium 93.
After reading what you all are writing, im only get around 250miles per tank.
I've also seen some talk about how they only fill there tanks to 13 or so gallons. When I fill from a half tank to full, it is usually 6 gallons...well less than I would think being that it is supposedly a 17.2gallon tank.
Any ideas why the mileage would be much lower than most of yours?
No mods are on my car...just bought it 1-1/2 months ago from a dealership certified. they were telling me that i must be driving too fast at 70mph to be getting bad mileage..
I live in connecticut so the weather is seasonal.
thanks,
matt
11-14-2004, 07:42 PM
#53
Registered Driver
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Hmm, well, what's your average MPG (Miles driven/gallons put into the tank to top it off (only works assuming you reset at each fill)). 250 miles per tank doesn't mean much really, depending on when you fill up.
And the 70mph comment from the dealer seems a little lame, I just got 360 miles out of a tank on the way home from vermont, a little bit of city driving with about 300 miles highway at 80mph, and I got 27mpg. (I'm driving the 5 cylinder first gen).
Where do you rev to from a stop when you are accelerating? If its 4,000 RPMs every time, you will get worse milage then say 2,500 RPMs.
Explain your driving style some more, thats where a lot of it comes from. I havn't noted much difference from the weather lately, I have been driving a bit more aggresively though, so milage has dropped just a little, but my love of the car is going back up.
When a light goes red in front of you a ways, do you keep going and stop on the line, or do you slowly put on the brakes so that when the light goes green, you are still going 15-20MPH?
Acceleration is where you lose your mileage really, aside from engine problems.
I'm sure all fresh fluids wouldn't hurt you at all, filters too, and checking the ODB readings. Maybe you've got a bad O2 sensor or something, though, your check engine light would be on.
Sorry about the mixed up/random order/random thoughts of the post, but hope it helps.
And the 70mph comment from the dealer seems a little lame, I just got 360 miles out of a tank on the way home from vermont, a little bit of city driving with about 300 miles highway at 80mph, and I got 27mpg. (I'm driving the 5 cylinder first gen).
Where do you rev to from a stop when you are accelerating? If its 4,000 RPMs every time, you will get worse milage then say 2,500 RPMs.
Explain your driving style some more, thats where a lot of it comes from. I havn't noted much difference from the weather lately, I have been driving a bit more aggresively though, so milage has dropped just a little, but my love of the car is going back up.
When a light goes red in front of you a ways, do you keep going and stop on the line, or do you slowly put on the brakes so that when the light goes green, you are still going 15-20MPH?
Acceleration is where you lose your mileage really, aside from engine problems.
I'm sure all fresh fluids wouldn't hurt you at all, filters too, and checking the ODB readings. Maybe you've got a bad O2 sensor or something, though, your check engine light would be on.
Sorry about the mixed up/random order/random thoughts of the post, but hope it helps.
11-14-2004, 07:46 PM
#54
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Just got back from filling up the '03, got 32 mpg once again.
Hell my '97 gets 26 mpg which seems to be better than some of you get..
I don't drive like a grandma either.
Hell my '97 gets 26 mpg which seems to be better than some of you get..
I don't drive like a grandma either.
11-14-2004, 07:50 PM
#55
Intermediate
i got 250miles per tank with my chevy blazer I owned. I figured I would at least get 300+ per tank with premium.
to answer your questions, here i go: heh
Sometimes I rev higher than others when going from a red light. I know it took me 2 months to learn how to drive my blazer. (thats when i went from 200m to 250m per tank), i drive 12.5 to work one-way, half town then highway.
when i do see a red light, I do low down early as I dont want to kill the brakes. the only time i half to stop hard is if the person in front of me wants to stop hard, then i have no choice.
the fluids are all topped off and its going to get some 'owe-me' work done this week so they will check all that again.
where is a good spot for the tire pressure? i have it around 35-36 right now. ok?
Half not seem any check lights yet.. one thing i noticed since i bought it, when i increase speed, let of the gas, i feel like my car is slowing down with pressure applied. i feel something almost hesitate the car...no braking applied or touched.
thanks,
matt
to answer your questions, here i go: heh
Sometimes I rev higher than others when going from a red light. I know it took me 2 months to learn how to drive my blazer. (thats when i went from 200m to 250m per tank), i drive 12.5 to work one-way, half town then highway.
when i do see a red light, I do low down early as I dont want to kill the brakes. the only time i half to stop hard is if the person in front of me wants to stop hard, then i have no choice.
the fluids are all topped off and its going to get some 'owe-me' work done this week so they will check all that again.
where is a good spot for the tire pressure? i have it around 35-36 right now. ok?
Half not seem any check lights yet.. one thing i noticed since i bought it, when i increase speed, let of the gas, i feel like my car is slowing down with pressure applied. i feel something almost hesitate the car...no braking applied or touched.
thanks,
matt
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