RUF87

2k2SilverTL-S mentioned in another thread to treat it like a baby after getting all over it. I plan to do that with an engine treatment of some type.

I would like to hear some opinions on engine and driveline treatments, such as Prolong and Slick50.

In the early years I used Slick50 and never had an engine problem. My first love was a 1964 Malibu SS with a highly modified small journal 327 and a fully manual TH350 tranny.
It was good for 7600-7800RPM in 1st and 2nd using hi-test. (100 Octane or better)

I drove it to work every day (up hill both ways ;-) pulled a boat regularly with it, took it on road trips, raced it on the street nearly every weekend and drove it to the drag strip and back home.

I did this for 5 years and 70K miles. When I went back in to it to add the latest hottest cam and such, I had the guys check the heads and cylinder walls. They couldn't believe that I had driven it that long and that hard. Anyway, they said to just clean it up and put it back together. I drove it another 3 years before getting married, and that was the end of it. I still have it and am waiting for my two boys to be old enough to start rebuilding it. Two more years, maybe.

So, back to the subject. The last two cars I've had since I used something called Militec-1. See site for more details. http://www.militec-1.com/

It's been over 4yrs since the last car and I'm wondering if anyone knows of something better or thoughts on treating in general.

Oh, one thing about Militec. I had an average engine temperature drop of 20degs and a noticeable improvement in the smoothness of the engine idle. Can't say about HP gains and such. Just a lower operating temprature and smoother idle. And we all know that heat is the engine killer, as well as a HP robber.

Based on what I know today, I plan on treating my TLS with Militec after the 2nd oil change. So your thoughts and recommendations are appreciated.

RUF

Road Rage

Both the additives you mention have had the FTC chastise them, and greatly restrict their claims and advertising. These additives are baloney.

Engine temperature is almost completely the result of the thermostat - no friction reducer would cause a 20 degree drop, unless you are measuring cylinder temperature, which I bet you are not. I am sure you are sincere in that claim, but I have to believe it was either not a apple-to-orange measurement, or that other factors (such as thermostat or ambient temperature variations) caused the reading.

For me, as in the law, once a company's validity has been impeached, I am not inclined to pay much credence to anything else they say. Prolong and Slick-50 are in the snake oil business, IMHO. BTW, Consumer Union ran the prolong test, and the engine with the Prolong did not last very long when the oil was drained, and in fact failed earlier than the other identical car.

Road Rage

I looked at the Militec website - hard to tell about the goodness of this product from their. I was unable to review the MSDS. Hwever, the use of some chlorinated compounds in it is something to evaluate further, since chlorines were first analyzed in the 1930's and seemed to be great additives, but were later found to have all sorts of downstream negative effects. They pop up from time to time even today in "miracle" oil additives.

One other thing - even if I stay in the clean mind modality (not suspicious or skpetical), it is a fact that the additive packages of modern engine lubricants are carefully balanced, and even adding a perfectly benign one (if Militec is benign) can upset the balance and efficacy of the package. So what might work in one application (nuclear subs?) might not work in your Acura engine.

I for one am not willing to take the risk - nor do any of the automotive journalists and engineers I hang with.

Manufacturers would kill for a product that could raise CAFE performance - a miracle in a bottle would be far cheaper than millions in reasearch $$ to get a fraction of an MPG benefit. Think about that.

------------------
Rage On!
2002 TL-S w. Comptech header/exhaust, springs
SSR Integral A2's
17x7 45mm offset
Pirelli P7000 (Summer) 215-50/17

RUF87

Road Rage,

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Just one note. The engine operating temperature reduction came as a result of the Militec-1 product. I'm 99% certain about that because I always let my cars fully break in, 6K-7.5K miles and take in consideration the time of year as well.

As for the other stuff, I never had any noticeable changes. Other than the engines ran and ran under all kinds of use. I acknowledge that could have been the result of my total maintenance process. But the Militec-1 did effect the operating temperature of the cars I used it in.

Unless I hear an absolute DO NOT USE, I will be adding it to the TLS. If I'm still posting in 7mos I'll let you know if I have similar results with it.

Looking forward to other responses. :-)

Road Rage

Ruf, my man, how did you measure the water temp drop? Calibrated gauge thermometer?

Most modern cars run about 200 -210F, with the thermostat opening around 195F. If your car was typical, and engine water temperature dropped as you say to 190F, the thermostat would regulate the temp by restricting its opeing, thius reducing the velocity and total flow of the system. This would raise the temp back to normal, and is needed to keep the engine running at optimum temperature. Too cool reduces power.

RUF87

Road Rage:

I used an automotive grade thermometer that scaled in increments of 2 degrees. It wasn't exact science on my part. I checked the radiator temperature from 140 to 190 and compared it to the gage in the car. Then based on the number of line bars that the car gage rose I compared that with the thermometer. So yes there was very likely some room for error, but I would say probably not more than 5-10 degrees. It gave me some kind of idea of what the gage was reading since most factory don't show numbers. (Now the ones on my Malibu SS did, but it was aftermarket gages that I used there. I also did not use Militec on that car because I didn't know about it then.)

Since I could not use the thermometer much beyond 200 because of boiling over, I used the car gage to estimate the actual drop.
Having tracked and noted the running temperature over a period of time before adding Militec. I estimate that the car would reach 220-230 before the fan would kick in.

Specically on the '91 Buick GS it dropped a full "two" line bars after the Militec treatment. Based on the estimates from the gage test I estimated a drop of about 20 degrees. So maybe 10 at the worst.

As far as average operating tempratures go. I believe that many GM models ran hotter, around 220. I'll have to go back and see if I can find anything on that.

Lastly, I'm in now way trying to sell you on Militec. I'm just checking to see if anyone used it or anything else and what their thoughts on it were.

Anyway, good points. You certainly earn points with me in the credibility department.

Xorg

Oil treatments were great for older cars with beat up V8s, a waste of money in newer engines and asking for trouble, IMHO.

The ONLY oil product that has been tested and validated by the EPA to do what it actually claims is PetroMoly oil, a synthetic.

RUF87

Xorg,

Just to make a slight clarification, I'm not asking about products that help restore lost power etc. But products made to treat new motorized components.

By the way, I'm looking for a test result on Militec I saw 6 years ago. I was fully documented and demonstrated the product did reduce friction and thus heat.

So far I've only found the independent claims on their website. I'll post it if I find it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Xorg:
[B]Oil treatments were great for older cars with beat up V8s, a waste of money in newer engines and asking for trouble, IMHO.

Road Rage

Ruf:

Car gauges are scaled very oddly - in a Honda, you will notice that the gauge never seems to budge, even when the coolant gets hot enough for the fans to come on. They do this intentionally since most people would get agitated seieng it move. The gauge will not really move until the sensor resistance drops very low, and by then the car is close to overheating.

Reduced water temp is possible, but still probably very small from any oil additive.

Anyway, it is possible that Militec does reduce friction in the upper cylinder, which might extend engine life, and that is the main advantage if there is indeed a benefit. The pivotal question to me is does it do that without compromising another area? Example is Dura Lube - Dura Lube was loaded with EP (extreme pressure additives), which are in all good oil's additive package. Problem is, in too large an amount, they can cause accelerated wear in other areas. This is why the additive companies (Lubrizol is the biggest) carefully balance all the additive compounds, and why adding even a good product (which Militect may be) can be iffy.

BTW, I once wrote an artivcle on Slock-50, calling it snake oil and preposterous in its claims. Petrolon threatened to sue me, until me and my colleague were fed a Dept of Defense study of many oil additive miracles, which concluded that they did not due what they claimed, caused accelerated wear on cam lobes, and "are not recommended for use in any motor vehicle in the DOD". We faxed it to Petrolon's lawyers, and that, as they say, was that!

------------------
Rage On!
2002 TL-S w. Comptech header/exhaust, springs
SSR Integral A2's
17x7 45mm offset
Pirelli P7000 (Summer) 215-50/17

j83

http://www.geocities.com/chrislonghu...oil_bible.html http://www.geocities.com/chrislonghurst/snakeoil.html

This should help explain what the snake oil does and regardless of whether you use what additives you use, your car should run smoothly.

1000bpm

I'm suprised the FTC still allows manufacturers like Prolong etc to print highly visible engine guarantees on their shiny packages.

It's all in the fine print I guess.

Would you happen to know what engine oil addtives the Acura service dept. uses? I was going through the price list at the "Acura store" behind the service area and I noticed engine treatments were included in the list.
Any idea what these could be?

1000bpm

Thks, that was useful information. No additives for me

j83

1000bpm thats xactly what i was thinking after i got finished reading this,
before i thought oil additives would do wonders for cars, but afterwards i was like what bs i spent money on corn oil!
i do think that the gas treatments and fuel injector cleaners are a must though!(or is there a scam with this too!?)

Road Rage

Some Acura dealers use BG products such as MOA (Motor Oil Additive) which is claimed to extend the additive package and therefore oil life. It probably is ok, but makes mroe sense to me to add at mid-life of the oil change rather than when new.

Some of there other productrs are iffy - they make a product called 44K which is very strong solvent to clean injectors, I-valves, and combustion chamber. Dave Solomon at Nutz and Boltz indicates that some Delco injectors suffered de-lamination of their windings from this strong cleaner, but that may have been just one product. Still, not for my car.

I use Redline SI-2 injector cleaner with each fillup (sometimes Valvoline Synthetic cleaner) to keep deposits from forming in the first place. BTW, most deposits are from the alcohols in fuel these days, esp. in reformualted gas.