MattB

I am in the process of beginning to look for a new car and have pretty much decided on a FWD lux-sport sedan. Naturally this includes the TL. Two of my top choices are the TL Type-S and the Infiniti I35. Based on your experience with the TL/TL-S, would it be a better choice than the I35? They both have similar horsepower and similar size as well as similar price ranges.

avs007

I had an 03' TL, and loved it. However, since you are looking at a used one, I would point you either to a used 04' TL, or the I35. I wouldn't want you to inherit somebody else's bad tranny. I've never owned an I35, so I can't comment on it. I do have a G35 tho, and I love it. I also love our 05' TL, so that's why I suggested the 04' TL, instead of the TL-S.

If you are looking at the I35, I know it offers cools features like heated rear seats, entry assist, power tilt/telescoping wheel, etc. Not sure if those are important to you or not. Both are great cars really.

Lawaia

Realize that you're on a TL board so you can guess which car members are going to recommend.

Bread-A Spec

Russdaddy

Get the TL. Don't ponder, just do it!

@cUr@-TL

If you dont care about the sporty look, go for the I35.

LiQiCE

Don't waste your money on the I35 which is basically just a rebadged Maxima.

If you have your heart set on the I35, look at the Maxima GLE (top of the line model) from 2002 or 2003. The price will probably be lower and you'll get basically all the same amenities.

The automatic I35s and Maximas are a little bit sluggish though because they have a 4-speed tranny with rather tall gearing.

The TL-S is still a great car even though a lot of people dog it for the tranny problems. There are a lot of TL-S's out there that have absolutely no problems with the tranny ... mine included. A TL-S with a tranny thats been replaced doesn't mean the tranny is going to fail again either ... Sure, there's been people with multiple trannies replaced, but there's also been people who have gotten it replaced and have reported no problems afterwards. If you want to play it safe, see if you can get a lower mileage TL-S and get a 7 year/100k mile warranty on it. The 2002 TL-S's have a 7 year/100k mile warranty on the tranny for free and some early 2003s have it as well (build date before May of 2002).

On the bright side, because a lot of people have complained about the tranny problems in the TL-S, you can often find the cars relatively cheap.

TLofNYC

I was in the same dilema when i was looking. I was between TL-S, I35, G35.
G35 was way too small, the I35 I found out has numerous problems (I asked other owners and I went to the I35 forum). One problem I found that would annoy the out of me is with the Bose HU. One guy had it replaced 3 times in 6 months, and that problem is pretty standard w/ I35. Finally I went w/ TL-S. Besides the tranny issue, its a solid car. I got an '03 w/ 6000 miles a coulpe of weeks ago and I love it.

MattB

What were the problems with the I35 you found? I really like the TL-S and I actually have a lot of connections at my local Acura dealer because I worked for them as a summer job a few years ago so I wouldn't have a problem getting a good one. I don't think an '04 is going to be in my price range ($15k + trade, $20k at most), but I definately like the previous model...just the transmission issue is still a major disconcerting factor.

MattB

Also when did Acura switch to the new paint process that seems to be causing so much trouble with rock chips and stuff?

F23A4

1st of all, one can EASILY state that the TL is a rebadged Honda Accord. So let's not go there.

2nd of all, a Maxima GLE and loaded Maxima SE have the same amenities. The GLE is just trimmed a bit 'softer' than the SE (softer suspension, no rear spoiler) but, pretty much have the same features available.

That said, the I35 has several features that make it nicer than the 5.5G Maxima: EL gauges, hideway Navi, rear power sunshade, heated rear seats, Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC), JDM Nissan Cefiro styling and the availability of top notch Infiniti Service.

To wit, the I35 Luxury version has some Max GLE attributes (softer suspension w/ less aggressive tires) and the I35 Sport has some Maxima SE attributes (sport suspension, rear spoiler and higher performance tires). If I had to do it again, I'd get the a 02-03 Maxima 6sp but if I had to get an AT the I35 Sport is the way to go.

That said, the 5.5G Maxima 4AT and I35 are only sluggish if the MAF sensor is blown. Outside of that, it leaps off the line with little effort.

Anyway, here's an interesting head-to-head comparison test here .

timmy8151

The reason for the thin paint is the fact that Honda/Acura switched over to water based paints from oil based. It's not just Acura though, a lot of companies have switched over because of environmental issues.

TLofNYC

Like I said, check out the I35 forums. A lot of guys were complaining of a lot similar problems, I am not much of a mechanical person so I can't get too indept....sorry......I just buy the car and drive the car. If I have some time I will check the forum and see if I can post some of the issues they were having.

drquasievil

Am I missing something? The person is looking for a new car.
I am a 2003 TLs owner and happy with it but If I had to buy a new car my choice would be the G35 with smart AWD. The new bodel has 295 HP. Acura dropped the TLs and I am not happy with the new body style anyway. I say try both and see which way rocks your world. Fair enough Acura board members?

F23A4

I'm thinking that Nissan/Infiniti doesnt make Bose HUs but that's just my thinking. As annoying as that occurrence may be (and it happened to the non-Bose in my Maxima), it's nothing that an Eclipse AVN5435 or Kenwood DDX-7015 couldnt fix.



TSBs:

2003 Acura 3.2TL

2003 Infiniti I35

LiQiCE

The I35 is much closer to a rebadged Maxima than a TL-S is close to a rebadged Honda Accord. Different headlights and tail lights don't make the I35 a different car than the Maxima. It may have a few extra luxury options (like an analog clock ... w00t) ... but its not that much different than the Maxima. Even reviews said the I35 wasn't worth the extra price because it was just a rebadged Maxima. The TL shares some components with the Accord, but IIRC over 50% of the body panels on the TL are different than on the Accord.

Review for reference (this review is for the I30, which is the same car, different engine): http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/compa...8/page005.html

And who came in first place in that review ? ... golly ...
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/compa...8/page017.html

Here's another review that shows the I35 in better light, but still compares it to a Maxima ...
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/compa...7/page007.html

I said a Maxima GLE simply because it was easier than saying a Maxima SE with all the options. If we're trying to compare the TL-S in terms of standard options, the GLE is the easiest to compare it to. When I bought my TL-S I cross shopped the Maxima so I am quite aware of how the options worked when brand new ... In the used market its more difficult to find a fully loaded SE than to find a GLE with all the options on it already.

In terms of performance, the I35 and Maxima 4AT aren't slow, but they're slower than a TL-S.

For reference (www.car-stats.com; or MotorTrend November 2001 issue) the 2002 I35 runs a 0-60 in 7 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 15.3 @ 92mph ... The 2002 TL-S (Road and Track, July 2001) - 0-60 in 6.2 seconds, and the 1/4 mile in 14.8 @ 96mph ...

Thats where the 4AT kills the Maxima / I35's performance because the Maxima 6spd is no slouch in terms of performance and is right on par with the CL-S 6spd.

Don't get me wrong, I like the old 2002-2003 Maximas. I think they're great cars ... My brother owns a 2003 6spd Maxima SE ... but I just think in terms of price, for about $4000 less then the I35 in the used market you can get yourself a nicely equipped Maxima GLE.

LiQiCE

He means a new USED car. If he's looking for a brand new TL Type S or Infiniti I35 he's gonna have a hard time finding either one since both cars are no longer made. (The TL Type S was replaced by the 3rd generation TL, and the I35 was discontinued).

MattB

New in the sense of new to me...I'd love to get my hands on a new G35x but it's way out of my price range.

drquasievil

Thanks for the clarification. I hope you find what you are looking for.

F23A4

I understand your POV, I just dont agree with it in its totality.

While the TL and ES are based on the Accord and Camry, in the case of the A33 I30/35, it's reversed. It's the Maxima that was built off the Nissan Cefiro which is badged stateside as the Infiniti I.

As far as performance, my 2002 Maxima 4AT runs 14.7-14.8 second ETs pretty consistently in stock trim, with a few others on the .Org having run 14.6 on a few occassions. But when it was new, I couldnt break under 15s until it was broken in (i.e.: after 3,000 miles) Thus I have no reason to believe that the I35 couldnt run similar 1/4 mile times. But , the 4AT does hurt performance once it shifts into 3rd gear.

Head to head, I've raced a TL-S twice: once was a bracket race at Etown where he dialed in at 15.88 so I dont count that run. (bracket racing is more about timing than racing) But I did run a TL-S under the most ideal of circumstances on the NJ Turnpike a little over 2 years a go: he was with his girl/wife and I was with my wife, road was amazingly empty for an overcast Saturday afternoon, and my wife didnt complain (shock in itself). Cliffnotes: I maintained 1/2 car length on him up to about ~140mph (speedo) when we both decided it was a stalemate...gave each other thumbs up and continued on our ways. Thus, from firsthand experience (and as can be attested from Acura-TL.com posts going back several years) it really is an even matchup performancewise.

F23A4

Flemington Infiniti here in NJ has a demo 2004 I35 on sale with 7,655 miles for $26,940.

MattB

One other thing I've noticed that seems to pretty consistantly favor the I35 is the Infiniti service experience vs. the Acura service experience. I've read a lot of complaints about how Acura's service just doesn't measure up to Infiniti or Lexus.

MattB

If I end up going for the I35 that's the color I want...Infiniti calls that dark silver color "diamond graphite".

Tunerman

I am surprised no one has mentioned this. The I35 has been DISCONTINUED AND most dealers no longer have any in stock.

F23A4

My Maxima's color is called 'Grey Lustre' but it's pretty close to (if not the same as) 'Diamond Graphite' and given my lead foot, I strongly believe that the dark grey color has bailed me out of possible speeding tickets on several occassions.

MattB

So has the TL-S....

TLofNYC

False.......I saw plenty of I35's and TL-S's when I was looking for cars. I had a hard time finding a low milage TL-S, but luckily I did.

TLofNYC

Also false........There are plenty of dealerships (at least in NYC), if you don't like your service you go to another dealership, or complain. I have learned that when you complain things tend to go your way.........

AsianRage

I tried on an i30 when I was shopping for a TL -S and I couldn't even get it out of the parking lot. Apparently, the battery was dead. Recharged it, went away for a while, got back, it couldn't start up anyway. Charged it up again, left it running, someone turned it off, went back to drive it and couldn't start it. Gave up. Dealer then introduced me to a TL-S that someone just brought in. Saw it, loved it, drove it, bought it.

LiQiCE

Its all going to depend on where you live and your particular dealer. In general Lexus holds the best reputation amongst the 3 Japanese luxury brands for dealer service but its not true everywhere.

In this area, I know Pohanka Acura has a pretty good reputation and for mods Tischer Acura in Maryland is huge for supporting mods.

In New Jersey, I think its Park Ave Acura has a great reputation in terms of customer satisfaction and mod friendliness.

There are good and bad dealers for all of the brands. Its just a matter of finding the right one or the right person in that dealer (sometimes just the right person makes a world of difference).

drquasievil

Hey, I have a 2003 silver TLs with 22K. lease expires next year. What's the best way to unload it before the end of the lease?

MattB

I wouldn't take that as a judgement against the entire Infiniti I-class though, it's more just that the dealer was probably stupid and let it sit too long.

F23A4

While you and TLofNYC make a valid point and dealers do vary from location to location, I do tend to see more complaints about Acura Service on Acurazine than I do about Infiniti at Maxima.org and G35Driver.net.

( I wont even go into how bad Nissan dealer service is. )

MattB

Yeah Nissan dealers vary widely...although I will reccommend Nissan of Natick to anyone in the Boston area, they do great work on my Infiniti G20. An example: my local Infiniti dealer screwed up some work on my door lock systems and as a result my passenger side door would not open. I called Infiniti repeatedly and they simply told me that they couldn't do anything about it anytime soon and basically blew me off. So I took it to Nissan of Natick who fixed the problem in a half hour, figured out another problem which Infiniti was trying to get me to throw parts at and then sent the bill for fixing the door problem to Infiniti without charging me. My Infiniti dealer is not going to see my car again anytime soon.


Another concern I have with the TL is reports of bad paint quality. When did Acura switch to the new paint process? I have also been told that the 3.5RL through 2004 used a much better paint process than the TL, is this true? Because if it is I may have to go look at some RLs.

03CoupeV6

My Acura service experience sucks, as well.

But I'd definitely get the TL-S. It is just so much more attractive than the I35, IMO. Styling is subjective, though.

Have you driven either of them?

MattB

I've driven both back to back when I worked at an Acura dealer one summer during high school. The I35 seemed to have a faster revving engine and more technological toys but the SportShift transmission on the TL-S was more fun than the I35's four-speed auto.

03CoupeV6

The RL and TL-S are dynamically different. Are you looking for luxury, or performance luxury? While I have great respect for the 1st gen RL, I test drove it, and I could not own it. When I replaced my 05 Accord V6's garage mate, a 99 Accord that had 94k miles, I had more money to spend and I considered tons of cars. BMW 325, Mercedes C240/C320, Maxima SE 6spd, Audi A4, Lexus ES, etc.

I bought a 2002 TL. At the end of months of test driving, I liked it the best. The Maxima was faster, the Lexus ES a little more luxurious - but the TL was the perfect compromise for what I wanted. It was just the right amount of luxury, the right amount of sportiness, and the right price. I was well aware of the transmission flaws before I bought it, but I still did.. and I'll deal with those problems should they arise. The paint quality on Hondas doesn't seem to be a problem for me... and I've had 6 of their cars in 4 years (5 Accords pf varying years and this TL).

I say go for the TL... I don't think you'll regret it. I sure don't.

F23A4

I dont think you can go wrong with either one of them. Both are similar on paper but have differing styles. It's just a matter of what you'd rather live with. To wit, only person taste subtleties will lend itself to his final decision.

2K2SilverTL-S

Great line from that artice:

"It's an impression reinforced on the open road, where the Acura leaves the Infiniti for dead from stoplights and also passes traffic on two-lane roads faster and more confidently. Credit the extra fifth ratio in its five-speed automatic, which is able to make better use of the 3.2-litre VTEC motor's power and torque. Despite fantastic kickdown performance on the highway from its four-speed, the I35 can't keep up; acceleration from rest is hampered by a huge gap between first and second gears which results in a noticeable pause in the proceedings. Don't worry, though; the Infiniti is still more than fast enough in traffic, and still has enough torque to vaporize the front tires should you switch off the traction control (the Acura comes with VSA stability control). "

MattB

All else being equal it seems like the TL-S is more of what I'm looking for in terms of sporty handling and driving dynamics. Is there a way to tell if a TL transmission is at serious risk for failure? I will have to drive this car between Newport News, VA and Boston, MA a couple times a year and would hate to have the transmission blow midway.

Also what is Acura's extended warranty roadside assistance policy? Infiniti will bring me a loaner and let me take it wherever I want, then have my car sent to my final destination after it is repaired and take back the loaner.