cambo904

Okay, first post on here since seems to be more action on this forum than hondatech.

Past couple weeks i've been doing a lot of maintenance on my aging 2003 Acura TL

It all started with TCS light and cel light. Took it to the dealer and told me. I needed a new transmission to the tune of 3500 new or 2500 used. I was like no way..

I managed to locate a JDM import shop in town and got my hands on a low mileage engine tranny combo. j30a with msga tranny $1500 out the door. Not bad considering what the dealer was charging me for a just a used transmission.

Yes i know its a different model engine and tranny but I only needed the tranny.

There are a few qurks to this transmission swap but I got around those qurks fairly easy, with no major problems. The only difference i can see is that the Msga tranny does not have the power steering speed sensor mechanism.

Which leads me to my question... since this tranny did not have this sensor I bypassed the ports on my power steering lines. ie.. I jumpered the two ports together. Should I have just capped them off?

So this fixed my transmission problem and the car was driving great even though steering was a little tighter due to not having the power steering speed sensor.

While driving down the highway my TCS and CEL light come back on.. WTF.. last time this happened I replaced the tranny.. so I know it can't be the tranny again.. and its shifting better than ever..

researching the forum.. I see EGR cleaning, O2,, maybe even knock sensor maybe the culprit. hopefully its just the EGR and intake in need of some cleaning...

ECRD

What are the codes?

Flashing or stays on?

cambo904

both CEL and TCS light stayed on steadily. TCS shut off and CEL stayed on after cycling ignition key.

I have to wait till morning to get the codes read. Just thought maybe someone could give me a heads up of what other issues I might be having.

cambo904

by the way my TL as about 190k on it, other maintenance just recently done were timing belt, water pump.

I'm hoping all im needing is an intake and EGR port cleaning and i'm good for at least another 60k to 100k miles.. cross my fingers tomorrow that whatever code pops up......its something simple.

01tl4tl

without codes it can be 1000 things

cambo904

Well im in luck. Two codes that are easy to fix.

p0705.. transmission range circuit malfunction.
p0401.. insufficient EGR flow

cambo904

back to my question highlighted in blue in my first post. Does anyone know the answer?

I've been trying to find some caps to put on these ports so far no luck.

cambo904

this is what i did..

similiar to this photo.https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...g+speed+sensor


see the loop. I d rather cap those ports instead of looping it.

fsttyms1

DONT cap them. You just simply hook them together.

Did you replace the range switch from yours to the new trans or reuse the range switch that came with the trans?

cambo904

I went ahead and ordered a bew range sensor. Along with new gaskets for intake cleaning.

For the ps ports. Looking at the routing seems like putting in that bypass loop also bypasses the ps gear box. So pump pressure would just keep looping instead if flowing through the ps gear rack first. Thats why i want to try the capping them off. To see if it improves my ps steering feel.

01tl4tl

NOOOOOOOO STOP!!!!!!!! DO NOT PROCEED

DO EXACTLY what FSTTYMS1 SAYS, he is a mega TL owner with 600,000 MILES and climbing daily on his 00
if he says loop it rather than cap, loop it, I don't care what your eyes think is happening
He KNOWS what fails and how to fix it

cambo904

Sorry but my gut instinct tells cspping those off would better route ps pump pressure into the gear rack. Im gonna do it anyway to see if there is an improvement. Wont hurt. The tl-s runs the ps pump directly to the gear rack.

fsttyms1

The fluid looped from the rack to the trans, the variable speed sensor/gear in the trans changed the fluid making the effort higher or lower. If you cap it off fluid wont pass thru it. If you loop the 2 together it still allows the fluid to flow. As for the TLS running directly into the rack its a different unit. It didint have the variable assist and has a heavier/weighted feel. You have to loop them or fluid wont flow to the front cooler and back into the res

cambo904

looking at the OEM FSM.... there's a separate return line, It doesn't have to flow through those ports. I still think bypassing those ports actually bypasses the ps gear rack. Like I said i'm gonna try it and see if my ps steering actually improves.

cambo904

if you look at the lines.... what your doing is routing the supply line (from ps pump) directly back into the return line (to cooler/reservoir) .. hence bypassing the ps gear rack completely.. am I the only one seeing this?..

have you guys actually capped them off vs bypassing those ports?
Are you guys doing it just because someone on the forum says that's the way to do it.

3.2TLc

Hey Cambo904, just go ahead and do whatever ya want. Cap them and see what happens !!!
Let us know the outcome.

sysuleman

I'm dying to hear the outcome.

fsttyms1

It does NOT bypass the rack.If it did you would know, you wouldnt be able to turn the wheel. Mine has been like that for near 300k miles. What improvement are you looking for? Easier steering?

Yes, many have done this, and tried this.

3.2TLc

^^^ Fsttyms1 has researched and experienced actual hands-on repairs of probably every single working component on his TL ..... with over 600,000 miles and 14 years of DIY ownership. There are very few techs who know the 2nd Gen TL as well as him. So, if someone asks for an opinion, and he responds.....then respect the skilled advice, or otherwise, you're on your own.

cambo904

Why does removing the ps speed sensor make it harder to turn? (While the car is not in motion) But with it connected its easier to turn? Is the sensor more of a ps booster or some kind of valve? Or is it both?

Im still going to cap those ports next chance i get to work on it. Just to see what happens.

cambo904

I've done a couple of searches, I can't find how this ps speed sensor works. I understand what it does.. but how does do it? Is it controlling a valve inside the gear rack? OEM FSM doesn't say to much about it. or maybe I'm looking in the wrong spot..

01tl4tl

isn't the steering speed sensor- or whatever its name is- made to lighten the input feel to amount of response- for parking lot use?
on the road you want some feel and feedback, without the car dancing around in the lane all the time = knee steering
If that's happening you need something in the suspension steering parts replaced... and an alignment~

01tl4tl

whats it matter how it operates??? fsttyms1 = Fast Times WON, is the go-to voice of this forum for advice on mods and repairs
He has tried it, tested it, toasted it, read about it, fixed it, or otherwise interacted with every part of his car, or several lucky ziners who he helped in person

Funny thing is his day job has nothing to do with car repair!

cambo904

It matters because knowing how it operates will determine if i can get my ps steering to work like it still had the ps speed sensor in there.

fsttyms1

You cant. The variable speed steering sensor (not a sensor at all) is a pump. Its driven by the transmission. my guess is that it pulls fluid thru the rack making it easier but as speed increases im guessing there is a valve inside that closes off much like looping the 2 together. If i still had an auto trans laying around i would disassemble one to see but i dont.

cambo904

Thats what im trying to figure out. If its a pump how is it pumping if the car isnt moving to make your steering easier to turn?

fsttyms1

My guess is while stopped the fluid is somewhat restricted from flowing, but once moving it starts to spin speeding up the pull of the fluid, thus making the slightly harder feel. My car didnt like it when i capped them off (i will say i have an under drive pulley on and that may have contributed to some of it).

TLer trash

I've got the one from my daughter's swap on my toolbox, so I decided to try it out. Scientifically using my breath my fingers I determined this much: It's directional. You can blow through it one way easier than the other. When you spin the gear, it acts like a pump, reversing flow with reversed rotation. The place that we buy rebuilt racks from tell me there is no additional hardware in the speed sensitive racks. I think if you want easier steering, you should plumb the sensor back in, tie it out of harms way, and try it. I'm not 100% sure, but I think if you cap the lines, you are stopping all fluid from returning to the pump. If I'm right on this, you'll know within seconds.

3.2TLc

Hey Cambo904, just what did the "MSGA" replacement tranny come out of ???
and what were the biggest quirks and obstacles involved other than the P.S. ?

fsttyms1

Thats what i figured. I know mine was hyper assisted at hwy speeds and the ps pump moaned at a stop while turning.

Im not quite sure what the OP is complaining about as the effort with it looped together isnt hard at all. Its very nicely weighted, especially while driving.

Skirmich

I would do as Fatty suggest.. Loop them!
The TLp used a speed sensitive, While our Type-S uses a Torque Sensitive system if you loop the TLp speed sensor it might work as the TLS in low speed.. As fatty said it isn't hard at all it has some nice weight to it.

fsttyms1

To me it felt just like the type-s

cambo904

the motor came out of a japan equivalent of a honda accord, (so i'm told). There were'nt really any big obstacles. Nothing that would hinder you from installing it. Everything swapped over except for the PS speed sensor. You can't install it even if you tried, the MGSA tranny doesn't have mechanicals for it inside (I checked); Even though there is a blank off plate where it would have been.


1. all sensors are plug n play and no surprises there.

2. the MGSA transmission does not have a provision for the Acura TL power steering speed sensor. (If you have the type-S model, this wont be a problem because the TL type-s model does not have this sensor) Also, this sensor is mechanical and the only way to add it to the transmission is to tear it down and install the necessary components. In order for you to use it.

3. the drive plate/torque convertor is smaller in diameter for the MGSA transmission. If you keep your original Acura Tl drive plate it will not bolt up.. You have to use the drive plate and torque convertor from the B7WA transmission.

yup. i had the transmission bolted up went to install the drive plate bolts and non of them lined up because the drive plate and torque convertor on the MSGA transmission was smaller. =/

2. The transmission oil warmer also needed to be swapped over from the original transmission. for some reason the B7WA transmission warmer (round silver thing on top the transmission housing) used one big and one small diameter hose ports, and the MSGA used 2 large diameter hose ports..

3. The transmission bolts right up to the original motor. no worries there.

by the way, i wasn't complaining about the power steering feel as it sits.. just trying to see If I could make it better..

cambo904

hmm.. that doesn't seem right that assist supposed to kick in at slow speed and at stand still .. and get firmer at highway speed.. if it was moaning at a stop then your ps speed sensor was faulty. (assuming you had the ps speed sensor still installed)

cambo904

I should take the old tranny apart, to see what is needed to swap the ps speed sensor over, I know there is a gear that drives the sensor in the B7wa tranny that the MGSA tranny does not have.. so i'm wondering if its just a simple parts changeover? I dunno..Never taken apart a transmission before so I wasn't going to attempt it at that time..

however... I'm going to take the broken b7wa and attempt to rebuild it following the FSM. so I might as well look to see what's involved in getting that ps speed sensor to work with the MGSA tranny. (Too bad I dont have a spare MGSA tranny lying around to compare..) It may or may not be simple.. or I may not even be able to do it at all..

Skirmich

Nope.. At slow speed you don't need more than the given power assisted (Lets called it "Unboosted") because its enough to move the wheels at low speed.

At high speed the sheer amount of weight of the car moving forward makes the wheels lock into straight position making it harder to turn with the stock P/S setup for low speed. That's when the "Boost" or a better word is "floodgate" is needed so you can move the steering wheel easily at high speed, Specially Higher Speeds when its HARDER to turn the wheels.. This becomes more obvious with wider tires.

cambo904

hmm. i'm reading exactly what the acura fsm says.. if you have hard steering with the vehicle parked. and you tested the ps speed sensor by looping those ports (and you still have hard steering).. then you have a bad ps steering speed sensor..

to simulate speeds above 62mph bypass those ports and check, using a scale for readings more than 5.5lbf valve body is ok, 5.5lbf or less problem is pump.

the assist doesn't kick in at high speeds..

cambo904

if steering is excessively light at high speed. then you need to check rack guide adjustment and or power assist at road speed....

i dont think the acura fsm would lie to me..

cambo904

maybe your confusing torque sensitive steering with the other.

Skirmich

^ Maybe you don't need nobody answers then as you have them all!! FYI: I am not confusing anything, I was stating a Fact....

Why bother to Ask if you are going to Ignore one of the Oldest Veterans in the Forum (Fatty) and I'm quite knowledgeable in the subject as well... Just do what you want then.