smartypants

Hey, Don't flame me yet !!

I have a 1999 TL and am a great fan of the car. However, the auto industry in general is always looking for ways to create revenue and brakes are the latest thing. It seems Honda is not excluded from this trend.

Have you ever wondered why brake pad surface areas have gotten smaller and smaller over the years ? Is it because the pads are more high teck ? Nope, physics is physics and the amount of energy needed to be disipate is the same which means the energy not taken up by friction is radiated as heat. This results in the calipers and the rotors functioning at higher and higher temperatures as the pads get smaller and smaller. Guess what, they fail more often and the types of problems are pads wearing faster because they're breaking down in the heat or rotors warping, again heat. Are the dealers going to complain ? Nope, its now a major source of revenue since the demise of the tune up !

And what's all this about you must machine rotors everytime you change the pads ? Unless you have significant groving, they don't need resurfacing. But oh my god, won't the brake pedal vibrate ? Yeah, for the first 50 miles and then presto, vibration vanishes ! Oh yes I almost forgot, machine a rotor three times and its done, scrap, garbage ! Gee, I wonder why they always insist......

The net of this story is, the car companies are saving a few dollars on brake systems by reducing the size of the system and the dealers, not to mention the aftermarket guys, are making big time therfore no problem, right ?

When I purchase my next car, I'm going to ask the salesman what the brake pad area is (the what ???) or the rotor diameter. Who knows, it might filter up to the marketing folks who might tell the production guys who might tell the accountants to STFU !

End of rant......

Smartypants

smartypants

Hi All :

Before you flame me the editor won't allow me to change the post but, its BRAKES not BREAKS !

Spell cherks are great but.......

Dow Jones

Should rotors be thicker?

The reason why the rotors can only be machine a couple of times is because they are engineered to be as thin as possible.

Why?

It's to save weight, and hence enhance fuel economy.

Is stopping power all about size?

I think you are not entirely correct.

The objective of the brakes is to convert kinetic energy from the moving car to thermal energy by heating up the rotor and dissipating the heat. That is, the effectiveness of the brakes can be looked at how effectively it converts motion to heat (via friction) per given area (e.g., square inches) and how fast this heat is dissipated. Because of the vast improvement in disk brake technology, more motion can be converted to heat using a smaller area and be dissipated.

So, I think it is more reasonable to compare brake sizes when they are using the same brake technology. (e.g., 1970s disk brake technology to 1970s and not 2005).

samkws

we all know honda is not a gd in brakes, esp a heavy car like the TL, most TL owners critizies the brake performance. it truly lacks behind Nissan, BMW

Edward'TLS

Not any more. That's why the new TL's have the Brembo brakes as a package option.

samkws

that's outsoucing....

dark inspire

well the new TL has better brakes regardless of the Brembo package. The stock brakes on the new one are way better than the stock ones on mine

AcuraTl203

yea ever since my old accord the brakes have sucked , and its kinda sad that the TL and TL type S both use the same brakes when one car is more powerful and slightly heavier, oh well saves us money on the showroom floor and us tuners get the performance ones anyways.

TunedTL

You can upgrade to Legend Gen II 2 piston calipers for $80 plus 1 liter of brake fluid if you don't want to spend $ on Brembo. Cermaic pads is only $60.

johnny--2k

whats so great about legend Gen II calipers? Explain further on this please!!

TunedTL

Two pistons instead of one, so the pressure area on the pads are larger. Supposed to give you better wear. There is no need to change brackets or mounting bolts, just straight swap of calipers as they are both Acura OEM parts.
Search on Legend Pistons and you will see discussions about it. It is a good upgrade for a relative small amount of $.

smartypants

Hey Dow :

How's your average.........

Anyway, I think we're both saying the same thing only you believe brake technology has advanced. Well, my last set of pads had to be changed out because they were breaking down and large pieces of the pads were flaking off due to excessive heating. So much for the technology theory.

later,,,,,,,

lizard

I have a 1994 Infinty G-20 first owner with 112,000 miles on the original brakes! I have not been to a 90 degree corner or highway off ramp that has not been late braked from the beginning. I am amazed with the mileage and the lack of brake fade. My bride has the 2001 TL and the brakes are average at best. I cannot go in near as deep with this car because of the brakes and marginal suspension ( I have comptech sways on the floor of the shop waiting to be installed this weekend).

dark inspire

hmmm Legend Pistons look appetizing... will have to do some research!

TunedTL

Those who wanted to upgrade calipers, Here is DIY on Legend Gen II caliper install.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=brake+caliper
My pedal is firmer when I brake medium to hard, light braking there is little difference over stock.
The only thing to watch out is Legend probably have brakes near the back of front rotor, TL's brakes are at the front. It makes a huge difference because you don't want bleeding valves near the bottom of calipers (air could be trapped at the top). Legend calipers I have the one marked "L" should be on the passenger side, "R" on the driver side.