PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

My friend and I had nothing to do today so went test-driving vehicles. The '99 Max is very fun to drive, unfortunately, w/ my friend, myself, and the saleman in the car, I couldn't see just how quick it really was compared to the TL-S. All in all, it was very solid, and very easy to drive. It seemed much lighter than the TL-S and it seemed to be planted better in the twisties.

The S4 -- it was just me and the salesman on this one, the sticker was $41,923 and there was little to no negotiating -- he made that very clear. The car's sport clutch is nice, since you only need to depress the clutch about 3" to get the job done -- the response was very similar off-the-line to the TLS since the turbos took a couple thousand rpm's to wind up .. but man, that engine sounds SWEET! .. The car is literally glued to the road, and it is very very well balanced with the least amount of body roll I've ever experienced in a car w/ two people in it. The steering was tight, and a joy to grab -- it seemed perfectly molded for the true driving enthusiast. The turning radius was surprisingly much better than the TL-S .. very nice. I had to adjust a little to the 6-spd box however, 1st gear will come and go in a flash .. that's a car you truly need to master, I can appreciate this fact now.

As far as fit and finish -- solid, a better ergonomic design than Acura -- you truly feel like you're nestled in the cockpit of a true racing machine -- all the controls are easily accessible. I didn't quite like the windshield wipers .. you had to push up on the stalk to activate, and there is this funky lever on top of the stalk to regulate the intermittent speeds -- but hell, who care about that! I pushed the dash around and listened for creaks or less solid construction and didn't really notice anything until I pushed in the vents -- they have the typical German creaking to 'em -- analogous to the Benz. Over bumps and train tracks this S4 was SILENT and smoooooth.

Worth the price? I'd say it's a nice alternative to the new M3, and perhaps more of a treat brand-new when compared with a used '99 M3. As far as it competing w/ a TL-S performance-wise -- fuh-get-about-it. It was much quicker off-the-line, and with crisp shifts, there's not way a TL-S could keep up if it was launched right. I wish I had a chance to drive an auto S4, but they didn't have one on the lot -- maybe next time.

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2002 TL Type S (WDP)
1999 E320 4-matic
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bbjones

I would have loved to get an S4 instead of my TL-S, but I didn't even test drive it. Why?

1) Out the door, the price difference is well over $10K. My Scottish heritage could not abide that.
2) Upkeep will be much more expensive. Audi mechanics are not as expensive as BMW mechanics, but they are up there. I've heard that the exact same part goes for a hefty premium from Audi over VW. Plus, it's likely to need to go to the shop more than the Acura
3) If I'd driven it, then I might not be able to stay rational about #1 and #2.



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2002 Acura TL Type-S Dark Emerald Pearl
1986 Pontiac Fiero SE V6
1994 Ford Explorer 4x4

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

BB-

Yeah, I agree w/ the $10K increase in price from the TL-S MSRP, however, you do get what you pay for. It's just, as many have said time and time again, a different type of car than the TL-S, built for a different driving purpose. As I was driving it, I could see how much of a pain the manual would be in traffic, especially w/ the 6-spd vs. the 5-spd; that extra, very short gear makes you work just a little harder. After getting back in my TL-S, I truly appreciated the blend of power w/ the automatic that the TL-S delivers.

happy

I test drove A6 2.7T quattro w/ sport shift auto. That car had same engine as S4. Engine and drivetrain felt so sooth that it felt like I was gliding on butter. Quite and strong pull through higher RPM. Interior was worth $47K sticker price. A notch higher than our TLs. Still too expensive for a luxury VW. Price is well into 540i range and VWs have reliability problems.

lonny

Only two things kept me from getting an S4 and price was not one of them: too small (no back seat or trunk) and no NAV (or if NAV was an option, Audi's NAV sucks). Otherwise, this was one of the best cars I have ever driven. Having driven them all, I don't think there is anything out there that can out-handle this babe.

bobatimez

the s4 feels like a cop out. first of all audi is VW. and the s4 is an A4. It looks a little better. but it's half assed cause it goes fast, but has that crap back seat, and no convertible. A sports car to me, should just do sport stuff, don't pretend to be practical. and leave the practicality for real sedans. point being, there is no true blend of sport and sedan (except m5) so stop trying. and it IS damn expensive.

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Some Said, "TL Type S," Soon They Will Say, "Wannabe TL-S." Laguna METALLIC, Navi, Side Cuts, Tint All Around, Interior Footwell Lighting, Eibach ProKit, PIAA 1700x Fogs custom cut into side holes, Akimoto Intake, Inspire Tails, 17" Type-S Rims with 215/45/17 Bridgestone Potenza RE730's, Visor, Wood Shifter, Comptech Sways making me ride on rails...

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Guest

By your logic BOB, then Audi is also Lamborghini and Bugatti. Actually Lambo is going to make a 360 competitor using an Audi turbo-charged engine and Quattro, FYI. Sounds to me someone is just trying to justify their priced-based purchase. The s4 is hands down better than the Tl-S in every category, except interior space. How ironic coming from someone who drives a souped-up Accord.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by AudiAce on June 09, 2001 @ ]</font>

GS430

The S4 has incredible handling, as well as my previous 328 ci. The engine handles nicely, and you could feel the turbo even at high speed. Interior somehow needs to be more refined.

S4 has lots of potential as an M3 killer, (my friend tuned his babe up to 350 hp), but Audi needs a bit more time to work the exterior styling (come on, a bit more different than an A4 body)

I think Audi puts lots of heart in S4,providing a better reliability than the 01 m3. The cost is very competitive, for around 41k OTD price, there isn't that much competition at the same league. given it's quick 5.9 to 50 acceleration.

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2001 GS430,
Swiftracing Torque Converter/HFI intake.
L-tuned suspension with steering ECU.
Lsportline kit
Lowenhart 20''rims with Pzero tires.

sboje

Most reports have the S4 0-60 time at 5.5 to 5.6 seconds, not 5.9. That's even faster than a GS430, which is about 5.8 seconds and a 540i which is typically about 5.7. The 330 seems to vary between 5.9 to 6.1.

It does handle exceptionally well. What is even more impressive is how smooth the ride is despite it's handling capabilities.

I don't agree that it is good competition for the new M3... you would really have to warp out a S4 to get a 4.7 second 0-60. The turbos seem to have enough reliability problems as it is, and it seems many who have chipped their S4s end up with driveline problems as well. The S4 was a viable alternative to the old M3, and was also less expensive.

I could not get past the reliability problems of the S4, not to mention the ridiculous back seat accomodations. But it sure is fun to drive.

bobatimez

audiace, the difference between my souped accord and a 41k VW is the price gap. accords and tls are very close. in terms of price based purchase, i think we would all agree that unless you take bills instead of logs for camp fires, than everything is price based. the audi is a great car, but it could use better styling/distinction from the a4, more room or less doors, navigation. personally, i think if ur gonna do something, do it all the way. full sport or full sedan.

by the by, are you trying to call me cheap?

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Some Said, "TL Type S," Soon They Will Say, "Wannabe TL-S." Laguna METALLIC, Navi, Side Cuts, Tint All Around, Interior Footwell Lighting, Eibach ProKit, PIAA 1700x Fogs custom cut into side holes, Akimoto Intake, Inspire Tails, 17" Type-S Rims with 215/45/17 Bridgestone Potenza RE730's, Visor, Wood Shifter, Comptech Sways making me ride on rails...

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...026&Auth=false

GS430

Where the hell you get 540 in 5.7? stop being redicluous, even at BMW's own website it's only 6.2 which is really slow for a v8. the 330 can never pass 6.4. 5.9? where you got that? Stop dreaming. What BMW you drive? bring you car out and race with me, A lesson of reality needs to be learned. Open your eyes okay? some people are just unbelievable.

Reliability? I think S4 is more reliable than M3, just check out how many problems it has rite now, loud throttle sound, LCD wouldn't light up with a car that's only 3400 miles. give me a break. Though both cars are having certain reliability problems as well.

sboje

BMW posts conservative estimates... Lexus often overestimates their performance. My numbers came from Car and Driver and Edmunds.com. If you are using the manufacturers numbers, that would explain why you are confused. People have got readings of 6.1 seconds on a 330i over and over again... it wasn't a one time thing. Car and Driver got 5.9 seconds on the 330xi. Everyone thought it was controversial, and they restated that it was in fact the correct time and it wasn't a misprint.

Go race a good driver in an S4 and you'll find out yourself that it is faster than a GS430. Go race one in some windy roads and you'll find out how unsporting the handling of a GS430 can be. GS430 is a nice car... its fast and luxurious. But it isn't in the same league performance wize of an S4, and it doesn't handle at the limits like a 3 series either. Even the M5 understeers baddly. You just can't slop a giant overweight engine into a car and expect the handling to nimble and neutral. Lighter is better.

GS430

I never question S4's ability to GS430, they are different leagues. I just question where your data lies. 5.9 in a 330 is the first I have ever seen in the years, if it is possible, I don't suppose this certain driver will be on the street. 6.2 data should be the fastest time in a maual transmission for a 330i. Anywayz, judging from your objective view, take a look at war in the "GS400" is very fast thread. looks like audi is stretching on both of us.

Guest

Actually Motortrend got 5.8 for the 330xi. Edmunds 5.9 for the Ci. Most other mags got 6.1. The highest I've seen is 6.2 in R&T I think. As for a 540 manual, they have been tested as low as 5.5-5.6. They can even keep up with S4s in the 1/4 mile @ around 14 flat. Too bad many S4s are chipped and running low 13s...

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

I think all you who love to cite MT, R&T, C&D, and other popular carmags' 0-60 times are pathetic. I agree w/ the fellow who said, "Come over and race w/ me in person, and we'll see how well you do against my GS430." That's a fact.

Take a moment --> do you think the someone who paid $42K for the BMW 330Ci would wanna do what those popular carmags did to achieve those numbers? Powershift into each gear, strip down your clutch?? Hey, if you got the money, then by all means, go for it.

Quit being magazine-racers.

Guest

You moron. They don't powershift, they dump the clutch and use lift-throttle shifts. Then they take the AVG of their 3 runs. It's not hard to match or beat magazine times. People do it at the track all the time. I've dumped the clutch hundreds of times on my 328i and S4 and they are holding up just fine. Even if they are trashed, they are warrantied and if not, it only costs under 2k.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by AudiAce on June 11, 2001 @ ]</font>

91M5

I actually had a little run with a 330i from a light and it was quite strong. I pulled away but he hung in there. I believe the Xi numbers because of AWD. I am sure the Ci would be long gone vs. the Xi by 80mph.

I drove an S4. I liked the handling and steering. My old M5 pulls harder than this chipped S4 w/catback did. I hated the shifter feel and thought the engine died above 5000rpm. They are blowing turbos like crazy and I wouldn't go near one until that is remedied. Nice, comfortable, quiet car.

VW? So what. Acuras are just Hondas. VW builds some nice cars and they and Audis still have that German feel to them that I like.

All this discussion about acceleration. That is such a small part of why I love driving.

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91 M5
Dinan stuff
18" BBS RC's
340hp

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

I agree w/ 91M5 --

Acceleration is a 16-year old's dream come true. That's all I wanted in a car when I was in high school -- who cared how it took the turns and what not. That's one thing I appreciated in the S4 -- it had good all around characteristics, and definitely a car that would suffice for daily driving -- and certainly for the sportier weekend adventures.

It's a toss-up as to whether the TL-S handles better than the Max SE --> I really feel that the weight of the car is at issue, and the Max was just sprung more taut than the TL-S.

Audiace --> get your nose outta those magazines, and build some crediblity. I can't learn anything more from you that I couldn't learn in this weeks Tribune Auto Section.

SoundSpeed

I think people have seen this thread for long enough in this forum, so it will go to off-topic now. Besides, there were some insults exchanged. Lets try to stay cordial.