rmarin2

Has anyone come across a Dyno or some other comparison between the two modes. I remember seeing it early on when the TLS first came out but don't remember where!! Just curious if anyone has seen it.

There is a difference of opinion between me and Bitium, the moderator from the TL Discussion section, on whether or not there is any difference between SS and regular mode. He says its all in my head. I say anyone whose driven in SS mode and with VSA off clearly can tell that the car is more responsive with its power!!

gohawks63

The only performance improvement that Acura claims is that shifts are 10% quicker in SS mode versus full auto.

doopstr

Well I read in last years Motor Trend (don't remember month). That the 0-60 was faster in automatic mode because the computer would run it right up to the readline and shift. The human drivers couldn't shift as good as the computer.

thepip331

yeah... computer would be smarter in that area...

i think sportshift is more designed for downshifting for engine breaking for turns...

its about control of the car... to keep it in a gear.... to shift if when you want it to

but i believe straight line dragging would be best if left in normal automatic mode

rmarin2

Ok.. I can appreciate that.. but then why is it that if you have 2 cars that are in the same class, one is a an auto and the other is a manual tranny, the manual tranny will out perform the automatic hands down.

TUFF GONG

That's a another ball game. Basically the manual trans has less power loss going through the tranny (I.E. the use of a torque converter, etc). Plus the manual may be geared with better ratios. You can't confuse auto's with this "manual" shifting mumbo jumbo with a real manual transmission. It's still a automatic....

Don't believe the hype

gohawks63

Because there's no slop in a manual transmission car. It helps if you've ever seen the way a manual transmission works. A manual makes more of a direct connection between the drive train and the engine. When you engage the clutch it in effect disconnects the engine from the powertrain. The inner workings of an automatic are based upon hydraulics and there is almost always a little slipping when the "gears" (not really gears but ratios) change (hence the nickname "slushbox"). Manuals also have four, five or six true gears versus the hydraulics in an automatic.

The transmission in our cars, along with those in Chrysler, Lexus, Mercedes and others that allow you to control the shifts, are really just automatics that give a more user friendly way of shifting through the gears versus running it up and down the gate manually (i.e. D1->D2->D3->D4->, D4->D3, etc.). Only Ferrari has a true "automatically controlled manual" tranmission. The transmission in the old F355 and now the 360 Modena has a true clutch. When you decide to manually shift by using the paddles on the wheel, the computer takes care of engaging/disengaging the clutch for you. When you put it in automatic the computer also shifts for you. This is how Formula 1 Cars work, hence the F1 designation on the Ferraris (F355 F!, 360 F1).

I think I read though that Porsche has come out with a true automatic manual also.

As for the performance differences between two identical cars, except for the transmission, I think it depends. For an experienced driver, I think they will be able to get more performance out of a car with a manual versus an automatic. For the general public who is not experienced in performance driving with a manual, they might be better off with an automatic.

Lastly, modern transmissions have become so sophisticated that the performance margin between automatics and manuals has become smaller over the years and it has now become more of a personal preference for the daily driver (i.e. holding a gear into a turn, etc.)

I think Motor Trend or Car & Driver did a test several years back where they wanted to illustrate this point. They took an Automatic and a manual transmission Firebird Trans Am and tested the performance differences. In the end the AUTOMATIC TA actually edged out the manual TA in the quarter mile.

Make sense?

rmarin2

I see what you guys are saying. It was obvious that even though we have the option of changing gears manually that the car is still an automatic. However, after driving a TLS for almost 8 months I've come to notice that in regular mode the tranny changes gears faster, i.e. by the time I'm doing 50, the tranny is already in 5th gear.

All I'm saying that since we are given the opportunity to change gears manually in SS mode, we are able to ride out the gears, hence making better use of the power and torque available at each gear. That in turns gives the car a little bit more push. Am I wrong??

TUFF GONG

Wow, I better thank you for your much in-dept explanation Mr. Goaub Very nice.

BlackShadow

I also feel that my car launches faster if I use SS with traction off. Maybe it is all in my head but I'm happy with it.:p

BTW, I only use SS for a lauch but racing on the highway, I leave it on auto.

gohawks63

No problem, hope it helped. I could have done a better job with pictures. Another point to note on how automatics are getting better.

With a typical automatic, when you slow down, the tranmission doesn't usually downshift until you put your foot back on the accelerator. Pay attention next time when you are slowing down for a light. When it turns green and you take your foot off the brake and put it on the accelerator, you can feel the transmission downshift.

I think Mercedes just came out with a transmission that will downshift as your braking so that you're in the proper gear as soon as you hit the accelerator, in effect eliminating that half second hesitation.

thepip331

i forgot... either the new ferrari or mercedes sportshift can shift gears in 150 milliseconds... which is physically impossible for a human to shift

hardcore racers are very upset at this b/c they practice their shiftings daily to be outgunned by a newbie who's flicking a paddle up and down


the biggest advantage of having a manual is the ability to shift from 5 -> 3... to be able to skip gears as you see fit... and ofcourse... its plenty faster...

EricL

Yes...

RE: The slushbox (as we have) -- there are losses (ATF pump power usage) and other issues that contribute to greater losses from the crank to the drive wheels. The 22-percent or greater loss is pretty nasty compared to some of the manual boxes available (especially considering the fact that we have a transaxle).

RE: Manual Sequential -- sign me up now. I want a fast SS and Auto!

RE: The Firebird and little engines... Put an "conventional" torque converter driven automatic on a small 4-cylinder engine and watch it suffer (especially true on low-torque high revving engines where the "power band" and power loss is so important).. I did see one of the earlier car mags that showed that the fast auto shifting with some low-rev older iron block would stay-up or beat the manual. (I just don't know if that is still true of the newer models [as in today])