I drove my friends BMW 330 with triptonic (or whatever its called for BMW) and boy was it different than our TLs. First, the 330 engine is really smooth, even when downshifting. Our car goes crazy when you try to downshift and your speed is not like 20MPH. When you are upshifting, the 330 actually shifts gears faster than the TL, the TL has a short delay before it actually shifts. The bottom line is that the 330 I drove was hell more fun to shift gears even if it was a triptonic and not a stick shift. I must say I am quite disappointed at my TL-S for not being that good. Next time I get a new car I will definitely get a stick shift car.

 

You get what you pay for.

If it wasn't for the fact that I bought the 330 for my wife, I'd be driving it everyday over my TL.

 

Makes you sound like an idiot for picking the TLS, huh?

 

they must have just upgraded the BMW tiptronic because I drove my friends 330 and I thought that thing was slow. 1st gear was extremely laggy, and the shifts were rougher than my 97 Prelude tiptronic. Acura SS mode is actually very acurate, don't forget you're still driving an AUTO.... so unless you buy an Enzo Ferrari no sport shift is gong to be absolutely instantanious and perfect.

 

Audi's new SMG is supposed to be very good. Haven't driven it though.

I have no regrets about the TLS. For a sedan with this size and performance you'd have to buy a 540, E500, or A6 4.2 which cease to be smart ways to spend your money IMHO.

And if you're gonna be dumb about spending your money, you might as well get an M5, E55 or RS6!!! Hehe.

 

No, It's a question of economics. I purchased my TL one year before the BMW. I had enough disposable income the following year to afford the BMW outright.
If you picked the Acura over the BMW thinking that it will ride/handle/etc. better, money NOT being an issue, then, I would have to answer yes to you statement IMHO.

 

Stop being anal !!! j/k

IMHO, for the features and price you pay. TLS is the best deal.

Besides, you are comparing a $45-50k car with a $30k vehicle. Go pick something that is compareble in price range ... like Audi or Merz.

Just $0.02.

 

about a month ago i was in the market for a new car... and i drove the 330 and i was really disappointed with the whole thing... i honnestly thought it was nothing compared to the TL.... the triptronic on the bimmers are terrible i thought that it was slow and the driver did not have as much control over the gear changes as you do with the TL... all in all i thought the bimmer was terrible and i would not spend my money on it....

 

I wouldn't regret getting a TL-S over a 330...one day I was surrounded by 5 other BMW's...I looked better then all of them when we were all stuck in traffic on the DVP...didn't see any diff in perform at 1 KM/per hour!

and I could hold alot more stuff too....and it alos make the joke "What's the diff between a pineapple and a BMW?...the BMW has the pricks on the inside..." seem alot more funny.

Its better to be differemt...be happy with a TL.

 

That's why I went with it.

 

was it tiptronic or SMG? SMG is really a manual transmission without a pedal for clutch.

 

You all may feel free to defend your purchase; however, you are in the minority thinking such and know it.
To drive a 3-series and come away "thinking" the TL performs better, well, something is wrong with you.
If space is your desire, get the TL. You should be ashamed of yourself if you think a stock TL's performance or handling can match the stock 3-series.
Even the BMW 3-Liter engine is so much silkier than the TL's; interior materials are also of a much better quality.

For the money I paid for my TL I got what expected. I like my TL as an everyday driver and don't want this to turn into a flame war; this is just a reality check for some of you.

It happens everythere; someone on the Nissan forum is saying his Maxima is much better than the TL - we know it is not. Same case here; I hate when this happens.

Yes, the TL is the better value FOR YOU if you cannot afford the BMW without a care. You buy the bimmer knowing it costs more to own and maintain but it is a step above the TL in all categories that make it enjoyable to drive. Don't delude yourself otherwise, you fool no one.

 

I'm sorry, but the BMW 330 isn't worth the $10-15k you have to spend to acquire it over the TLS. When I bought the TLS, I looked at all cars from $20k to $50k. The TL was the perfect blend of performance and luxury for me. I couldn't justify spending the extra 10 grand for minimal improvement in performance that I would get to experience maybe once a month. Given the fact that most buyers don't push their cars to the limit everyday (IT'S ILLEGAL AND DANGEROUS) and they can't tell the difference between RWD and FWD, I think I made a pretty wise choice when I went with the TLS. It sounds like you're just pissed that your wife is driving the BMW and you got stuck with the TLS and you believe the 330>TLS. I do feel sorry for you. So next time, don't go around saying the TL is a better value if you cannot afford the BMW. I had enough money in the bank to buy SIX BMW 330s if I wanted to. Oh and by the way, stop comparing the manumatic / tiptronic systems in different cars: they all suck. If you want real performance, step up to the challenge and drive a stick.

 

Actually the tiptronic in my 540 is the one thing I wasnt happy with. Thats why I just did an SMG wheel retrofit that allows me to shift gears using the paddles.

I liked the gated shifter of the TL-S along with my OEM, and of course my aftermarket Momo knob so much better. The Beemers dont have the gated shifter, and because of that they use a normal A/T knob with the lock out button on the front of it. Those knobs are not very ergonomic, and it feels horrible in your hand. The shifter isnt as crisp, or smooth either. I loved banging the TL-S into manumatic mode, and flippin it up and down. The Beemer just feels more muted to me. Until I did the SMG retro, I barely used it, whereas I used the TL-S triptronic all the time.

Compared to a 330, and even my 540, The TL-S is definitely not as good in the interior leather quality, sound deadening, etc. You can tell that just by closing the door. The 3/5 are tank-like comparatively; very solid. The handling is also subpar for a "Sports Sedan" in stock form; I can tell the diff between RWD, and FWD, and the better weight distribution on a daily basis. If you cant, and you dont routinely push your car hard enough to make that out, why buy a sports sedan at all. Its a total waste.

Having owned a TL-S, and a Beemer that retailed for tens of thousands more, I can honestly say the TL-S was/is a fantastic car; make no mistakes about it.

 

And I liked the body of this better.

 

It is not worth it TO YOU; what's so hard to understand about that?
I bought my wife the 330xi because I want her in something very easy to control. On the contrary, I feel sorry for you because you are a little confused. I prefer to drive my TL to work because I worry less about putting the mileage/getting it dinged than I do her car (which retains a higher value). On the weekends, I'd rather take her car on trips because IT IS more enjoyable to drive, period, no contest.
It's obvious that "Best Value" to me is not "Best Value" to you. Best Value is not just a $$$, it's the sum of many different things that are important to you. Who cares whether you can justify the price difference or not? Some people can justify it.

You tell me you can't feel the difference of FWD vs RWD???? Try stepping on the pedal of the new TL or read any of the reviews and get back to me.

 

Thats a good point ... on the 2004 325 and 330s you now have the option of getting SMG which previously was only an option on the M3. If its an SMG transmission in the 330 and not the automatic with "sport shift" or "tiptronic" or whatever you'd like to call it then you should expect the SMG to shift faster than the TL. SMG is a $2000+ option in the 3 series IIRC. Like Ruski said, SMG is really a manual transmission. It has a computer controlled clutch that does all the work for you though. I drove my cousin's 330xi and his tiptronic automatic transmission did not feel any "faster" than my TL-S SportShift.

Honda/Acura's may have an SMG like tranny soon. They have an agreement with a company that manufactures SMG like trannies and supposedly they will be going into the TSX and possibly the new RSX when it gets re-designed.

 

uh i paid 45k for my tls

and a bimmer 330i was 49 fully loaded

i fuckin hate the bimmer it blows

not only is it small, I have the seat all the way back and im 6 1
no one can fit in the back

its slow, but i must give it props on its looks

 

I have a "almost" stock 99...and I can beat the stock 3 series everyday..i have NO FEAR of them....kekeke....

 

Yup, the 3 series sure can perform... for the 5% of people who push it around the curves and to its limits.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you: i agree that 5% of drivers can logically justify the price difference because they push their cars to the limit everyday or they race around an oval track each day, every day of the year. They need a 3 series. However, most other owners of the 3 series bought it for status or they just didn't do their homework.

As far as the whole FWD vs RWD thing, I consider myself pretty knowledgable about cars so I CAN feel the difference. That doesn't mean 90% of the other drivers can. Each car has limits and your allusion to FWD torque-steer is quite sorry because it only happens at WOT and even then you can work around it. Hardly a problem that will force me to consider a similar or slightly superior car that costs so much more.

 

bro, get off your high horse

no one is impressed that you could have bought "SIX BMW 330s" if you wanted to
wow.....you're the man, big deal

like severin said, the extra 10-15K was not worth it TO YOU, period
maybe it would be worth it to me, or to any other TL owner in the country

it's a matter of personal preference, what you value and what you look for in a car

again, we're all real impressed with your disposable income.......now shut up

oh, and by the way.....if he wants to compare tiptronic/steptronic systems, why do you care??
we all do it, car and driver does it, road and track does it, motor trend does it.....it's a valid comparison piece for cars in the same category

some are much better than others, which would be a reason to buy one car over another
not everyone wants a true manual, whether it be certain driving conditions, or the fact that they have to do other things with their hands while driving (although they shouldn't be), or whatever.....some people just don't want a manual, leave it be

 

LOL! Talk about a rip-off!

 

You cannot say that a 330xi performs better than a TLS. It does in certain situatons, but it does not in others. True it handles twisty roads better but it lacks the power of the TLS.

But again, we should compare the TLS to the 530 or 540, not the tiny 330...

 

when I first bought my tlp, i didn't think it was fast, in fact I thought it was just like a nice affordable car. After driving it, and having raced on the road, damn I realized that it has capabilities that I did not expected. I raced a 330ci once and I just shifted to D3 to get extra power and I beat him, I manage to pull up to 120 mph faster than he could, which surprises me. I have a ML500 and that I feel is better than my acura, but sometimes I wonder. There's really no perfect car out there, so I don't think my acura is the best, but its what I can do right now. If I had any extra money, I wouldn't mind considering one of those M3's or M5's or E55's or you know the 300hp+engines, but that's not reality, but I would waste money on the regular 3-series, instead, I rather consider an audi or infiniti, b/c the 330's a expensive and their engines of the 3series are all the same, the only difference would be the body frame and the all wheel drive one. Beside its whatever suits you, I do agree that the beamer body is nicer, b/c it looks more solid, but there's many times I look at my car at night, hence night, and I'm thinking nice..! but hey I got my car for a really good deal, well the deal isn't so good half year later when tranny died, btw I didn't have warranty, passed 100k therefore replacing everything was out of my pockets, but now trying to sell the damn thing is pain in the ass, so I rather keep it for whatever, there's not too many option anyway. I shouldve't done more research before I bought it, oh wells again there's no perfect car, Even my Ml500 has problems, thank god there's something called warranty on that one, ...

 

I think it’s pointless discussion. We all bought TLs because we felt this car is right for every one of us. For whatever reason. Someone’s consideration was to get more car for buck, other’s – stile, someone else – brand, etc. What the point to compare and argue specific features from different cars in heated discussion. This reminds me old GM commercial, when GM was comparing for example Cadillac with other brands saying that this car has more leg room than “whatever brand”, and more horsepower than “whatever brand”, etc. You want ton of horsepower, get yourself Mack truck. Read Honda Civic forum. They laugh their end off saying that their modded Civics will beat any BMW or Acura. So if you want to race, get a Civic, modify it and be happy. We all bought TLs for a reason that is different for each of us. I personally love mine and plan to stick to it. Is BMW transmission better? May be. By I like MY CAR! It does not mean that I have to judge bimmer with pre-justice, or will close my eyes on some issue with my TL. BMWs are fine cars. Some are better than our TLs, but some are not. Guess what? There are lots of cars better than our TLs, but there are tons of cars that are worse. Nothing wrong with that fact, that is just a reality of life.

 

Like an idiot, you responded to a post that was specifically addressed to someone else. When Severin said people who bought the TL didnt have the extra $$$ to go for the BMW, I wanted to post and let him know that I could have easily gone for the BMW 3 series. It was not something I was bragging about.

Read what you wrote in your last post. Your post is coming across like you're burning with jealousy from reading about my "disposable income." You're right, nobody here is probably impressed with my obese bank account, with you being the only exception. The jealousy in your post is making me wish I hadn't even said what I did earlier.

This is a forum. A forum is a place where people exchange ideas. My view was that all tiptronics suck, and I've driven nearly all of them from Lexus to BMW to Acura... My humble suggestion was that if you really want more control over your car, go with an SMG or manual transmission. Otherwise, be happy with whatever you have because one is not going to be noticeably better than the other (as current BMW owners are saying on this very thread).

 

Wow my thread got a little out of hand uh? Funny... All triptonics suck and I regret getting an automatic car. I mean, automatic is convenient when you are stuck in traffic and stuff, but a manual car is better. I still like my TL though. My next car will be a manual for sure.

 

IM FROM CANADA DUMMy
45k CAD

 

The magazine reviews seem to have the TL at par with the 3-series. But I agree with you. It's more towards the 5-series (except for the M5 of course). Even friends who own previous generation 5-series seem to think the TL is a viable choice over their cars. After reading some reviews of the 2nd and 3rd Gen TLs, what seem to keep the TL at the lower scale (as the 3-series, and the Maxima/ G35) is keeping the car as an "entry-level" luxury.

ROB today has Honda doing poor on their sales compared to last year's and all was attributed to lack of aggressive marketing, and product stagnation (reluctance to keep up with the likes of Lexus/ Infiniti) and was actually admitted by the Honda bigwigs. Their main concern was to keep the resale value up as they did in last few years, but what actually happened was sales figures suffered due to lack of incentives comparable to other car companies.

What Nissan did to aggressively push their new product lines seem to work. And it seems that they were listening to the end-user feedback as to how to make the product better.

The TL with all it's niceties is OK, but Honda needs to keep up.

Going back to the tranny choice issues, what seem to be the current hype out there now is are pseudo-manual trannies. The Tiptronic/ Sequential Sportshift was just the beginning. IMO what had seemed to have started off as a manual shift "option" for AT users have now evolved into something else. Audi now has their DSG, BMW had success with their SMG and even exotics such as Ferraris use manual trannies with the absence of the 3rd pedal. I can see the beginning of the blur between AT and MT's but old die hard MT fans like me still wouldn't mind going back to the traditional stick with the clutch pedal. No amount of new technology can blur this for me. But I appreciate reading opinions including those contrary to mine. It makes me understand more.

 

45k Canadian is equal to approximately 34k USD. '03 MSRP $33,400.
Glad you got yourself a great deal!

 

You got raped at the showroom.

 

Mrsteve,
How is the unichip running on your car? You have a TLS or a CLS?

 

I sorta do agree that the TL-S SS is a bit slow to react.....but it's a matter of tase (and money) to compare a TL S to a 330. Each person has there own driving style and requirements of their car. I'd still pick my TLS over each one of my 24 bentleys........*cough* c'mon aren't you guys impressed?...aw damn...

 

When I was shopping for cars I found the TL-s the best shifter in its class of cars under 30k (I was buying used). And I looked at lincoln LS's, Maxima's, and even tried a Mistu spider with a "auto shift." They were slow and just didnt feel like they wanted to listen to you.
I cant afford a 40k 3-series... not so much for price, but from utility. 5 folks fit great in my car! And resale value is pretty freaking good! Of course it will depreciate more if you treat it like ass... same for any car - Hyundai to Bently.
Its a personal issue.
I love my TL-s. I love hauling 4 of my friends to clubs and shifting through gears smoother and more quickly than any of the cars I mentioned above.

Plus, one nuance I found of theBMW: Being a pilot, to turn things on and make things increase, the FAA mandates that any controls in the cocpit that turn on or make things increase (throttle for example) must move FORWARD. Makes sense... right? To go up, you move forward.
Why does shoving the auto stick forward in a BMW DOWNshift, and in shoving it back, you increase gears...
It doesnt feel natural!

 

CLS


Trying not to hijack the thread, but after a custom tune it is running very well.