neuronbob

I came to an epiphany today as I was driving to work: it's true what y'all have been saying about the handing of the stock TL. The cornering ability, in particular, stinks, and there's too much bounce on bumps (ride is too tall). I discovered this while driving on a freeway curve I usually take at 60-65 mph (stated limit is 50)...there was just waaay too much body roll, and hitting the bumps in the middle of the curve led to significant bounce. Believe it or not, I had less roll in my Intrepid on the same curve, took it with no problems!

So once again, I turn to you for an education. I've done a search of the site looking for info on springs and sway bars.

The first question is: which do I do first? I'm strongly considering having the springs done first, as it is the cheaper upgrade ($169 if I buy the springs here + $120-150 install by my local Acura dealer). I've pretty much decided on H & R OE Sport springs as I just want an improvement in handling, without so much lowering as to attract the cops.

Next question: How much do springs improve body roll? I ask because some of these spring manufacturers (H & R for example) claim reduced body roll as one of their benefits.

And yes, I already know that reduced body roll is what the sway bars are for, and that the springs mostly reduce that nasty bouncing on the bumps, improve the look of the car, and reduce squat on acceleration/dip on braking.

Third, if I go for the sways, which brand is best? I'm not looking to do street racing, just want to improve the ride.

Thanks (again) in advance, I've learned so much from you guys, keep up the good work!

2K2 TLS

I would do the springs first, let them settle in and get an alignment after one week. I would get comptech as most people as well as myself love the way they perform. Sways are very easy to install and if your comfortable around tools you should have no problem. As for the difference in body roll. on a scale of 1-10 the sways being a 10 the springs i would say rate about 6. Springs stiffin up the ride and that does help reduce some body roll, but nothing like you'll experience with sways.

TypeSDragon

Get them both and your problems will be solved. In my case, I got the sways first and they definitely made a difference in handling of the car. Gonna the springs installed right after winter is over.

Bitium

Well springs will not reduced body roll, because they are shorter than the OEM springs. Usually aftermarket springs also have a higher sprint rate (stiffer) not by much but enough to improved handling. Spring are dumb they just go up and down in a specific rate. So needless to say, if you get springs, you are just getting them for the looks, the benefict of a lower car(aerodynamics) and a faster response when cornering, because of the rate of the spring. Body roll has almost nothing to do with the springs other that is stiffer and the stiffer they are the less motion (up and down) on a side, which causes body roll. for example if a car just had metal beans to hold a wheel to the frame there would be no body roll, but who in the right mind would want that. What the sway bars do is keep the outer side of the car on a corner together with the inner side. The sway bar has absulutely no used when not cornering since both sides are at the same level. In other words a sway bar only allows a certein degrees of body roll if present when cornering.

My suggesstion is if you want to reduce body roll, first get the sway bars (comptech of course) then get adjustable shocks which it would also reduced body roll by making the suspension stiffer. I would recomend saving some money and getting a complete set like the zeals.

cantl88

From my experience with my old car ('98 Civic Si Canadian vs.) I found that the item that reduced body roll significantly was the shocks...even though I had race springs on and all the anti-roll bars and strut bars.
With aftermarket shocks you'll feel a significant difference in cornering...more confidence in taking a turn faster. Now whether that'll be the same with my TL is a different matter, but I assume that it'll be the same.

Davediego

I just got Comptech springs and I have WAY less body roll. Get yourself new tires also, the stock tires dont grip the ground worth $hit. I got better tires before the springs, and they let me take turns alot harder but I still bounced around alot. Now with springs the ride is alot less bouncy and I notice significantly less body roll at least.

Austin519

Bitium:
"Well springs will not reduced body roll, because they are shorter than the OEM springs. Usually aftermarket springs also have a higher sprint rate (stiffer) not by much but enough to improved handling. Spring are dumb they just go up and down in a specific rate. So needless to say, if you get springs, you are just getting them for the looks, the benefict of a lower car(aerodynamics) and a faster response when cornering, because of the rate of the spring. Body roll has almost nothing to do with the springs other that is stiffer and the stiffer they are the less motion (up and down) on a side, which causes body roll. "

As a mod who's I'm sure seen a lot of posts I am surprised. Don't be mad if I abuse you for a sec In pure physics terms...our car has a center of gravity...which is height X (some variable) off of the ground. Now when you curve you displace that center of gravity...and of course you're giving it momentum when you turn. Springs will lower your car, yes...and they also have a stiffer spring rate. And you ARE right Bitium, they are just springs...but in your saying they're just for looks...you're dead wrong man. Aftermarket springs combat the aforementioned body roll two ways. First, they lower the car by inches...aka X-.75" to X-4" (the most drop I've seen)...that makes a HUGE difference in body roll because now the center of gravity is lower down the y axis (the axis perpendicular to the ground), and that means when you turn and the car's center of gravity rotates on a radius from the z axis to the x axis (the axis cross wise through the car), you now have a smaller radius. So the angular momentum of the center of gravity (velocity*radius) is now less, so you have less body roll. Second, by having a stiffer spring rate, the angular rotation of the center of gravity is stopped quicker by the stiffer spring rate. That's why if you ran the car on 1" long solid steel bars you'd have virtually no body roll whatsoever. Or if you didn't have springs at all. You'd just have a terribly bumpy ride. So your last few lines saying there is less body roll is right...although it's not an up and down motion, and yes, the springs, in a physics sense...help a ton.

neuronbob:
I've been researching a WHOLE lot on springs, sways, and upper strut tie bars...and I'm getting neuspeed sways (the most solid = least body roll) and upper strut tie bar, and I'm getting either Neuspeed Sofsport springs (which I have been told is a .75" drop) or H&R OE springs...because I don't want much of a drop, and I'm getting 18's and the underbody kit.

I'm finding springs for about $160-$180 depending on the type I want...and the neuspeed front upper strut tie bar is $97 in polished, the front sway is $134, and the rear sway is $123. So yeah springs are more than sways, but not by much. I'd get both...I know I am.

Austin519

ymckoon

Let me simplify and answer your question.

If you're on a budget and you will not spend any more money on your car, then buy sway bars. A lot of people like them.

If you have more money, then get shocks and springs or coilovers. Again, a lot of people like them, so I doubt you'll go wrong here. Getting springs alone is not a good idea because you'll probably upgrade your shocks. Might as well get them installed at the same time since the springs and shocks are in the same vicinity of the car to save on labor since you're looking to pay a mechanic.

If you have more money, get all three, shocks, springs and sways.

mackdaddy

Sways first, springs second, shocks third. IMHO. Cost benefit inclusive.

Bar none, Comptech sways are a great investment. Nothing wrong with Neuspeed, or Eibach, but my Comptech's made a huge diff. without comprimising ride quality much. Mind you I said much, they do make it stiffer overall (Cols. and surrounding areas have some really crappy roads!)

Springs I'll vote for either Comptech, or H&R OE for Ohio residents. We still need some ground clearance, and ride compliency. Again, nothing wrong with the others out there, but Ohio daily drivers will be well suited with either of these spring choices. Personally, I'm thinking of swapping my Comptech fronts out for H&R OE's....... a little mix without the rake. Don't get me wrong, the Comptech's are great (albeit pricey.) The rake looks good some days, others I don't really like it. Fickle like a woman......

Shocks I'll vote for Tokico over Koni from previous experience. Koni's a great product, but again, pricey (at least for me.) I'll prob. end up with Tokico blue's (non adjustable) for the cost factor. I really don't need all that adjustability for my daily driver. Illumina's would be nice though....

Good luck in your venture Bob, I'm sure you'll be happy with whatever you decide. All the Manufacturer's listed here are top notch.

Jim

neuronbob

Thanks for all the help. I particularly liked Austin's physics lesson . At last, an application of physics (other than MRI) I can get into! After canvassing replies, I plan to eventually get both springs (H & R OE) AND sways, with the springs coming first and the sways coming in a few weeks--hey, I've got to put a roof over the wife's head first, and she's already indulged me in letting me buy a hot rod.

I don't think I need shocks right now. My TL-P is my daily driver, and though I'm looking for more fun in an already fun car, I'm mostly looking for better handling (that body roll is more noticeable every day, but only because I come to this board in my off-hours).

I'll post pics after it's all done--though with the OE springs, I don't expect that much of a visual difference which, after all, is the idea. First oil change is coming up soon, so I'll probably get the springs on at the same time.

Bitium

My brain is dead at this moment, so I won't argue much. NO springs will not help you a ton in reality terms or real sense whichever you prefer . I'll just say this to improved body roll this are the steps you should take:

1) Shocks
2) Sway bar ( this is used to reduced body roll and to keep a comfortable ride when driving straight, so is a better choice by auto makers) most racing cars don't have sway bars, because the are so stiff. This is also a good choice because is cheaper to add than shocks.
3) Springs ( you proved a good point, but is still the worst to improved body roll)

I'm not mad, but that took more than a second.

Austin519

neuronbob:
One thing I noticed...ymckoon said you will get new shocks...and that's just not true. Many have gotten new springs and kept the old shocks...I plan on doing that myself.

Bitium:
Yeah it seems I always start off with "it'll only be a sec" and finish 10 mins later...sorry for that . Nah I won't argue with you anymore...there's no need or point...I just think you underestimated the shocks...but I'm no mech e, and not a physics major either...so I'll stop here

Austin519

TLluver

My brain hurts!!

SoundSpeed

Here is a post that is pretty interesting.

http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...767#post289767

neuronbob

Thanks!