Whizzbomb

It seems like you lot know just about everything between you, so here's a question:

I am 100% sure I'm buying my 03TL that i've been leasing. I know as a rule it's pig ignorant to lease a car THEN buy it, but, well, that's how it worked out. From what I've read Acura/HFS really don't give you much wiggle room on the pre-determined buy out amount at the lease inception. My GF was somehow able to get about $2k off her Civic and the end of hear lease so that got my mind churning... Is there any reason to wait to buy it?

Someone please help the English major...

Thanks,

Joe

SatinSilverTypS

iTrader: (1)

personally, i say if you like it, buy it. how many miles do you have on it? what price was mentioned when you asked them about it?

SSTS

RickRoush03

becareful about that, if i remember my parents lease on their 03 tl-p, they have about an $18k residual if they wanted to buy it out right at the end of their 3 yr lease. now, looking at KBB, you could probably negotiate a better deal. When that car comes off its lease, its "hot" for about 7 days. This means, the dealer will sit on it until honda picks it up. At this time, if the dealer can sell it for anything above what HCF wants, he pockets the differece. So trust me, they want to work the deal, HCF doesn't care, one less car they gotta jack with. what i would do is about a month or two out before the lease is up, shop around, see what they are going for, see what that acura dealership is selling similar cars to yours for. then, tell them you car is coming off the lease and what kind of deal you can work out. when they ask whats the residual on your car, say "geez, i really don't know", this makes them do the leg work and get the best deal. if you say $18k, well, they may say, $18k. the highest price you'll pay is whats on that residual statement. don't forget, if you want, you can still lease your car month to month, or extend it one yr, whatever you want. dealerships don't want cars on their lot, its costs them money every single day. look on your paperwork, tell us what your residual is and if your over/under the alloted mileage.

your in the drivers seat, they'd rather sell you the car vs. waiting on the next joe to walk by months later to get it. they save about $1k min if you buy it off the lease.

my cousin is in the business, i've heard and see plenty.

SatinSilverTypS

iTrader: (1)

hey Rick, what's the good word?

regarding book price, you may also want to ask your bank what they go by. my bank only goes by NADA values, which are not always in line with KBB. this actually turned out to be a bargaining chip for me since the dealer wanted more than the NADA value. i told him my bank would only go to the NADA value for me so they dropped the price.

i agree with what Rick says though. don't jack yourself on the price, but if it's reasonable enough and you like the car then buy it if you think it will make you happy. of course you always have the option to go buy a different off-lease TL for a good price from another dealer. don't forget that part.

RickRoush03

the good word here is its nice out and i am stuck in this corporate life style for a bit longer

anyways, you've done some mods to your car, so factor in also getting them off the car if you don't buy your TL, the dealership will give you zilch for those mods, i know from first hand experience.

WdnUlik2no

Good question. Depending on how long you have left I think buying it now will save you more money than waiting till the end of the lease and buying it. I had a similar situation when I leased my 04 boat I mean Maxima and wanted to sell it to finance my TL.

I was only 14 months into the 42 month lease when I finally got someone to take it off my hands. I got the buyout amount from the NMAC ($29000 with taxes) and put up the difference between that and the price the buyer and I agreed on (negative equity). It was about $5000 that had to come out of my pocket, but that 5 grand got me completely out the lease and no more obligation to them. The car was bought from NMAC and I transferred the title to my buyer.

I wasn't planning on keeping the car at the end of the lease, but if I did, then I would have paid a lot more money; I had 29 months left at 570/month lease; meaning had I kept the car until the end of the lease, the total of my payments would have been 23,900 (42 months of payments) plus the residual if I decided to keep it.

I think my residual was 16 grand, so if I kept the car through the entire lease and then bought it at the end. (42 month lease@570 month + 18000 residual) = $39,900. If I decided to buy after 13 months of leasing then it would be (13month@570/month + $29,000 payoff) = $36,410; nearly $3500 in savings.

Either way you are getting ripped off by buying a lease, but the longer you keep leasing the car, the more money it will cost you if you are 100% sure you want to keep the car anyway. Personally I wouldn't buy a leased car but if thats the route you want to take, then I think its better to buy it now than later.

VTEC11

What's the residual buyout on your car? And how many miles? If you've got some miles on it, it might not be worth keeping since the tranny warranty wouldn't cover you for too long. In that case i would just walk away at the end of the lease.

RickRoush03

i dont understand you guys with these high lease payments on these cars. a maixma with 570 a month payments, damn, thats more than car payments on 60months for a maxima!!! basically do this, the car stickered for porbably $32k tops. Take your payments your making times the amount of months for the lease = what you paid over X amount of months, add that to the residual. If it is anymore than .01 over, your paying more for the car than it was worth. all the residual is, is a percentage of value left over after X amount of months. The higher the residual, the less the payments = higher buyout, or more negotiation room at the end.

acutee

Rick, That is a great advice.

toynaround

Too many unknown factors here to advise, we need details. How many months left on the lease, payment amount, buy out figures, mileage etc..

If the lease is not up yet it may be difficult to get a deal from Acura, from their persepective they own you, but its worth trying. My guess is that it will boil down to buy now and possibly save some money on interest or gamble you can get a reduced buy out(less than market value) when the lease is up.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

1. Monthly payment amount, and the length of the lease term, and how many months are remaining.
2. Total down payment amount, along with the amount put toward capital reduction.
3. Planned buy-out price (determined estimated buy-out price at the time of the purchase).
4. Allowed mileage, and the current mileage.

Tell us those bits of information and I can relate it to my situation and offer my view on the subject.

Whizzbomb

Wow... thanks for all the input. Like I said it's an 03 (I got it in Feb) I have about 38k miles on it now and I don't think my driving patterns will change. I'd be buying it because I really like it. It's some things that I would consider simply "kinks." AC blower motor broke, stuff like that but nothing that didn't happen within two week of my buying my Mustang. Now THAT was unfortunate.

Lemme try this again: 03, 38k miles, 15 months left on the lease$17,8XX residual (last I checked KBB is only like $18,2 - $18,8. I will certainly be over on miles, but hell, if you assume I'm driving 24k miles a year that's gonna be a fun conversation when I have TWICE the miles I thought I would.

Let me add that for a few reasons I kinda HAVE to keep the car. Besides all the mods I've done (which in reality can be undone, I kept the OEM eq) there are some other "complications" outside of my control. I fully expected to get hosed, I'm just trying to keep the water pressure on the low side.

Again I REALLY appreciate your help!

Thanks and let me know if there is anyother info I can give that would be helpful to you smart people

Thanks,

Joe

Whizzbomb

I had all sort of wrons stuff in my reply, so lets try this:

Ok... sorry:

03TL, since Feb of that year I've put on 38k miles. Mu amout of driving is going down (had a gf in Philliy and I'm in the DC Metro area. But that is no more. As of 11/27 I'll have 14 months left on the lease. The residual is $17,8XX before taxes, fees, anakl intrusion, atc. Llast I checked KBB is only like $18,2 - $18,8 - so I've ALREADY losy mosy on the car. I will certainly be over on miles, I'm working on it... It's all about demand side management.

For real though... Wow... thanks for all the input. I'd be buying it because I really like it the car, espically with the mods. There HAVEbeen some things that I would consider simply "kinks" ... AC blower motor broke, leather had to be restiched, more inconnieient then anything else. Cartainly nothing that didn't happen within two week of my buying my Mustang. (I got out of it fast, promise!) Now THAT was unfortunate.

Let me add -- for a few reasons I kinda HAVE to keep the car. Besides all the mods I've done (which in reality can be undone, I kept the OEM eq) there are some other "complications" outside of my control. I fully expected to get hosed, I'm just trying to keep the water pressure on the low side.

Do you think if I talk to client services they would be helpful ot self serving?

Again I REALLY appreciate your help!

Thanks and let me know if there is any other info I can give that would be helpful to you smart people

Thanks,

Joe

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

You leased a used car??

I still don't know what you're paying per month and how many miles you will be over the limit at the end (projected)... but let me give you an example of my car.

Leased new in January of 2003, for 42 months at 15k miles per year. I am paying 353.99 per month right now with a cap reduction payment of approximately 2,000 dollars (downpayment was an even 3,000).

Here's how I would calculate it.

42 x 353.99 = 14867.58

14867.58 + 3,000 in down payment = 17867.58

That will be the total amount of money I will have paid at the end of the lease. However, I am already over the mileage limit and I will most likely be about 10,000-15,000 miles over, which means I would end up paying about 2,000 dollars in mileage penalty.

That puts me at paying approximately 19867.58 when it's all said and done. Now, the buy-out price (projected at the time the purcase) was in the neighborhood of 17k dollars. I'll definitely try to negotiate with Honda Lease Trust, but seeing as how a stock '03 TL-S with equivalent mileage of my car is going for that RIGHT NOW, I can suspect that the market price of my car will be around 15k when my lease is up.

So assuming I buy it out at the projected buy-out price of 17k (meaning no discount, worst case scenario), that puts me, more or less, at 37k dollars total, not counting the financing fees and interest payments on that 17k dollars I will probably finance. But at the same time, I won't have to pay the 2,000 dollars in mileage penalty, so that will put the total at approximately 35k dollars.

So will it be worth my money and time to have paid 35k dollars for my car? Well, that's kind of subjective. Others might not see it worth their money, but I do; especially because I have 10k dollars into my car. It will be a BITCH to put it back to stock.

So bottom line is you have to compute how much you will have paid total at the end of the lease (monthly payment times number of months, plus down payment). Take that amount and add it to the projected buy-out price. Then make a comparison to see if it's worth that money to buy it out at that price, or if you would be better off putting it back to stock and returning the car, then buy a different TL for cheaper and transferring the mods.

That's my .02

Whizzbomb

MODS! -- Could you PLEASE detele my posts 12 and 13? This post is much clearer.

The key information!

1. I took delivery in 02/05
2. From then to know I'but on 38j miles, and if anything I'll be driving less.
3. As of 10/27 I have 14 months left of the lease.
4. The residual is about $18,700.
5. I'm in the same position, in that my CURRENT KBB is alreadt lower then my residual in a year abd a half.

My first replies were all over the place. This should help.Let me try this...

For real though... Wow... thanks for all the input. I'd be buying it because I really like it the car, espically with the mods. There HAVE been some things that I would consider simply "kinks" ... AC blower motor broke, leather had to be restiched, more irritating then anything else. Certainly nothing that didn't happen within two week period of my buying my Mustang. A LONG TIME AGO (I got out of it fast, promise!) Now THAT was unfortunate.

Let me add -- for a few reasons I kinda HAVE to keep the car. Besides all the mods I've done (which in reality can be undone, I kept the OEM eq) there are some other "complications" outside of my control. I fully expected to get hosed, I'm just trying to keep the water pressure on the low side.

Do you think if I talk to client services they would be helpful, or try and make more money for the man?

Again I REALLY appreciate your help!

Thanks and let me know if there is any other info I can give that would be helpful to you smart people

Thanks,

Joe

Whizzbomb

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... the was leased brans spankin new. I made DAMN sure 9again because of the sketcht ass bastards a Frod) that 1.9 miles on the car I leased. I asked how many asses has alreadt touched th3 deat but they didn'y want to answer... huh...

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Where the heck did you find a brand new '03 TL in February 2005??

Whizzbomb

It was a brand new feature Acura was offering in test markets called dyslexia.

I meant I bought an '03 in an '03.

Thanks,

Joe

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Gotcha.

Well, the bottom line is that if it's worth it to you to spend extra money to keep the car, then go for it.

Undoubtably, you probably will take a financial hit to an extent. But like I said, if you want to keep the car, then it's worth it.

Whizzbomb

You know... and I don't know why this is, but it WOULD be cheaper for me to buy it now. The longer I wait the MORE it will cost me.

I live in Maryland so I called a dealership in Cali (for the time difference... I think we use the same math though, I'm an English major so lord knows...). The way you find out the answer to the question is this formula: ((monthly payment * # of months remaining in lease) + residual )) - Current Payoff. If the result is positive that how much you save by buying early. If it's negative, your hosed. Shit I wished I'd know of this a lot sooner Granted, this will only work for some people but I'm glad I sorted that out. Whew...

Night ya'll,

Joe

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Let us know the details. I'm curious to see how much Honda Lease Trust would be willing to negotiate on the buy-out price, and if there's a penalty for breaking the lease early and buying it out.

TLsu

It isn't that hard to peel off stickers and take off rims? What is your problem?


hahahaha

WdnUlik2no

you are right, I made a big mistake going into that lease. I leased on a trade in with negative equity. I even put down 5 grand. They got me big time. I am glad I am out of that car and that bad lease. After I sold the the Maxima I decided to finance my TL, the TL was about 5 grand more than the Maxima and the payments are still about the same like you said; no more leasing for me.

RickRoush03

want to know why mfg's created the lease, its so people that couldn't afford to drive car's outside of their budget, drive them, and then they get all wrapped up towards the end in mileage, owing more than what its worth, having a balloon payment etc. you think 90% of those bmw's, mercedes, etc are bought, ya right!!

why are you so caught up in buying out your lease now? it wont be any cheaper, take your 14 months you still have to go, times that buy your monthly payment, and add that to your residual with tax. thats what you'd have to pay to buy the car out right. check and see if you can buy some mileage now at a reduced price or see if you can trade cars to lease or buy a new car. if you ask to get a new one, they may cancel your last lease to get you into a new car. dealerships and car mfg's always want you in the newest car they have, so go see if they'll work out a deal with you.

Whizzbomb

Ya got that right...

Yes... and that amount is $2500 lower then the payoff amount is now. That's why I want to act fast.

Again, thanks everyone for all your help and suggestions.

Joe

RickRoush03

not trying to be ignorant but how is it $2500 cheaper now than in 14 months? Are you basing in off of KBB or NADA prices?

Whizzbomb

Actually I didn't explain it very well. Lets say I pat $100 a month for my lease and the residual is $10,000. So by time the lease was up I would have made $1400 in payments and now I have to pay the $10k residual so that's $11,400. However, when I requested my cost to buy right now, I was told it would be $10,700. How they came up with my payoff amount I don't know. All I know is if I cut a check to Acura now, using their payoff value, that amout would be $2500 less then 14 monthly payments + residual. It's just wierd.

RickRoush03

wow, ok, i didn't think it worked like that but hey, if that is what it is and you can do it, by all means save yourself some cash. let us know how it turns out. don't forget you have to add sales tax to that price.

WdnUlik2no

yep you are correct! The longer you lease the more you will pay over the long term.

WdnUlik2no

WhizzBomb is correct! The longer he leases the more he will pay over the long term. Buying it out will prevent him from having to pay those future lease payments. If he knows he's going to keep the car anyway then he should buy it now so he doesnt have to worry about those future lease payments. It wouldn't make sense for him to wait for the end of the lease, because he would have paid all of his lease payments then turn around and have to pay the residual too, and those two together it ususally ends up being more than just buying the car right now, even when you add on the taxes.

WdnUlik2no

WhizzBomb is correct! The longer he leases the more he will pay over the long term. Buying it out will prevent him from having to pay those future lease payments. If he knows he's going to keep the car anyway then he should buy it now so he doesnt have to worry about those future lease payments. It wouldn't make sense for him to wait for the end of the lease, because he would have paid all of his lease payments then turn around and have to pay the residual too, and those two together it ususally ends up being more than just buying the car right now, even when you add on the taxes.

The only time you have to add all your unpaid lease payments plus the residual if you decide you want out of the lease before it ends and don't buy it out (breaking the contract). If you buy it out before the lease expires then all you have to pay is the payoff amount plus any taxes. The residual really does not come into play on a lease buyout.

for Whizz the cheapest route is to finish the lease and turn it back to the company at the end, but in this situation he would have paid all those lease payments and still end up with no car.

the second cheapest route is to pay the payoff amount for the car now and not worry about the future lease payments.

the most expensive route is to wait until the end of the lease and buy it at the end, (all lease payments + residual).