Should I 86 the Rear Wing??
#1
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Should I 86 the Rear Wing??
Well the next mod on my '00 would be to add a rear wing. I seen several pics that had the OEM bodykit w/no wing and I thought it looked really good. But on the other hand it looks like something is missing. What do you guys think....with or without?? Opinions...please!! NEED INPUT! Thanks!
#2
Purchased: April 28, 2001
Well I had a bodykit without a wing for a full year and thought it looked good, but I ended up getting a wing now since my bodyshop ofered it. Personally I wouldnt pay for the OEM wing just becuause it's so damn expensive.
#7
Pro
WW rear spoiler might just be for looks. However, I think an OEM rear spoiler addsome effects to the car as well as looks. Winds can get underneath it, which produce the downforce effect during high speeds. As a result, it helps keep the car more stable.
Trending Topics
#9
Senior Moderator
I prefer the smooth lines of the car without a rear wing..for now. However, it took me a long time and many visits to the TL gallery before making this decision. It's not that the OEM wing looks bad (looks great!), it's that it's not for me right now. If the wing actually offered a benefit, It'd probably be worth it. I'd like some proof it actually does anything.
#11
WW rear spoiler might just be for looks. However, I think an OEM rear spoiler addsome effects to the car as well as looks. Winds can get underneath it, which produce the downforce effect during high speeds. As a result, it helps keep the car more stable.
the automaker only offers it b/c the people ask.
cars are designed without spoilers, since for regular use, passenger cars will never fully utilize/achieve the speeds needed where it would be effective.
a lip spoiler, such as the one on m3 and m5's actually produce downforce at a certain high speed and create minimal drag.
the one on a acura tl or for any car for that matter acutally slows the car down 3MPH or more.
go try it with two TL's, one with a spoiler and one without.
if i were to get a spoiler, form would have to follow function.
i believe that WW makes a lip spoiler.
it pains me to see things attached to cars that actually make them perform worse.
#12
Originally posted by Seotaji
sorry to burst your bubble yo.
the automaker only offers it b/c the people ask.
cars are designed without spoilers, since for regular use, passenger cars will never fully utilize/achieve the speeds needed where it would be effective.
a lip spoiler, such as the one on m3 and m5's actually produce downforce at a certain high speed and create minimal drag.
the one on a acura tl or for any car for that matter acutally slows the car down 3MPH or more.
go try it with two TL's, one with a spoiler and one without.
if i were to get a spoiler, form would have to follow function.
i believe that WW makes a lip spoiler.
it pains me to see things attached to cars that actually make them perform worse.
sorry to burst your bubble yo.
the automaker only offers it b/c the people ask.
cars are designed without spoilers, since for regular use, passenger cars will never fully utilize/achieve the speeds needed where it would be effective.
a lip spoiler, such as the one on m3 and m5's actually produce downforce at a certain high speed and create minimal drag.
the one on a acura tl or for any car for that matter acutally slows the car down 3MPH or more.
go try it with two TL's, one with a spoiler and one without.
if i were to get a spoiler, form would have to follow function.
i believe that WW makes a lip spoiler.
it pains me to see things attached to cars that actually make them perform worse.
#13
i like it with the oem wing better~
the rear of the tl looks weird because it curves down(IMO)....add any wing and it looks good. 5 series look weird with a wing cuz the trunk is straight..i like 5 series without a wing.
the rear of the tl looks weird because it curves down(IMO)....add any wing and it looks good. 5 series look weird with a wing cuz the trunk is straight..i like 5 series without a wing.
#14
Pro
Originally posted by Seotaji
sorry to burst your bubble yo.
the automaker only offers it b/c the people ask.
cars are designed without spoilers, since for regular use, passenger cars will never fully utilize/achieve the speeds needed where it would be effective.
the one on a acura tl or for any car for that matter acutally slows the car down 3MPH or more.
go try it with two TL's, one with a spoiler and one without.
sorry to burst your bubble yo.
the automaker only offers it b/c the people ask.
cars are designed without spoilers, since for regular use, passenger cars will never fully utilize/achieve the speeds needed where it would be effective.
the one on a acura tl or for any car for that matter acutally slows the car down 3MPH or more.
go try it with two TL's, one with a spoiler and one without.
If what you said is true, then there is a force being apply to the wing which then causes the car to slow down. This force is call "Friction". Therefore, you can't say that there's no downforce effect & OEM wing is just for look. Do understand that i did NOT say it will increases speed to the TL's performance. All i said was it might helps keep the car stable at high speed.
#17
Moderator Alumnus
Thread Starter
Thanks for the input guys. I'm still as confused as I was before (not any of your faults). I don't look at the rear wing as a functional piece of gear but rather as Sound said giving the car a sportier look. And it's not like I can easily take it off if I don't like it. Hmmm...has anyone thought of attaching the wing with some super adhesive double-stick tape? Would that work?? Just a thought.
#18
Three Wheelin'
You cant attach the OEM style with double stick. It will never stay on, and needless to say it will scratch the hell out of the car if it flops off while you are driving. I installed the OEM body kit and had it on my car for about 2 months without the trunk spoiler. They get WAY to much for it at the dealer. BTW, Tim sells an OEM look-alike at this site but i got mine from sportwing.com. (They did a flawless paint job/color match for an unbeleiveably great price. I got it off ebay, brand spanking new for $175).
Anyway, after having driven without the spoiler for awhile, it took about 2 weeks to get used to the look with it on. The car looked good either way, but in retrospect, i am happier with the appearance with the spoiler on. The trunk slopes down so the spoiler gives it a more squared off, finished appearance IMHO when used along with the body kit.
Anyway, after having driven without the spoiler for awhile, it took about 2 weeks to get used to the look with it on. The car looked good either way, but in retrospect, i am happier with the appearance with the spoiler on. The trunk slopes down so the spoiler gives it a more squared off, finished appearance IMHO when used along with the body kit.
#19
Advanced
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Age: 41
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Should I 86 the Rear Wing??
Originally posted by Lawaia
Well the next mod on my '00 would be to add a rear wing. I seen several pics that had the OEM bodykit w/no wing and I thought it looked really good. But on the other hand it looks like something is missing. What do you guys think....with or without?? Opinions...please!! NEED INPUT! Thanks!
Well the next mod on my '00 would be to add a rear wing. I seen several pics that had the OEM bodykit w/no wing and I thought it looked really good. But on the other hand it looks like something is missing. What do you guys think....with or without?? Opinions...please!! NEED INPUT! Thanks!
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
![Cool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/cool.gif)
A few cars don't look right without wings IMO; ex: Accord coupe and 4th gen Pre'.
#20
SoundSpeed posted,
I agree.
CKacura posted,
It's fact.
Friction? No, it's drag.
Downforce? There is no downforce.
I know you didn't say anything about speed increases, that was just my addition.
Honda has a reputation for being practical, if the wing really had any discenable effect, the company would offer them standard.
The rear spoiler's job is to counter lift. A car experiences lift when the air flowing overtop the hood, roof and trunk flows much faster than the air traveling along the car's mechanics-laden underbody. This is also where the flat underbodies of Ferrari and Lotus are effective. Spoilers (and wings) cause air to flow upward at the rear, thus generating a downforce to counter lift, keeping the tires firmly planted on the ground at speed. Essentially, at-the-edge handling and agility are improved.
Many vehicles make use of a lip spoiler, a small upward extension on the very rear of the car that counters lift and reduces drag. A prime BMW example is the latest generation M5; it has a small almost-invisible lip spoiler on the trunk lid. By pooling in front of the lip spoiler or launching upward, the air has less of a chance to become laminar or attached to the rear end. The Porsche 911 automatic rear spoiler will have a similar effect on both countering lift and reducing drag.
In the September 1998 edition of Car And Driver, an aerodynamics test is performed using a Porsche 911 with speed-sensitive spoiler. Both with the spoiler in full operation and with it disabled, Car And Driver took the Porsche through the paces at Chrysler's proving grounds in Chelsea, Michigan. Hard numbers revealed a difference in top speed of only one mile per hour — 165 mph with the spoiler disabled compared to 164. But the magazine notes, "It rode more smoothly, but it felt uncomfortably floaty, wandering more in the lane and feeling less glued to the track. It was hardly dangerous, but more concentration was clearly required at top speed to maintain a straight path...At 145 mph, the 911 rode and steered the same, spoiler up or down."
To sum it up, Car And Driver states you have to be going at "a considerable clip to discern those differences."
Car And Driver also tested a Ford Mustang Cobra with and without its factory wing, noting it contributes to the car's drag. Wing on, the car hit a 150 mph top speed. Wing off, it achieved 153.
Bottom line: If you're going unlawfully fast, a spoiler or wing might be functional. Not much for piece of mind, but read on. "Aerodynamic drag doesn't even exceed tire drag until you've reached 40 to 50 mph," states the magazine. If the spoiler won't do any good at low speeds, why have it deployed, right? "And you may have to be doing well over 100 mph for spoilers and wings to have any appreciable effect on lift or downforce." Car And Driver does cede, "Nearly all cars can benefit from the drag-reducing effects of an air dam."
Automakers confess rear wings and spoilers are more show than go. General Motors uses them to sell cars and Toyota offers them because consumers demand them. "Personally, it hurts to see a Camry with a (non-functioning) spoiler on the back," Donald W. Brown, former national product-planning manager for Toyota in America, told Car And Driver. However, every car is different. Brown notes the Lexus SC's drag coefficient was trimmed from 0.32 to 0.31 with the aid of a factory rear spoiler.
To me, buying a wing would be money poorly spent, money that could have gone to pricier alloys, larger tires or tighter suspension.
It is not always for performance. An OEM spoiler just looks good.
CKacura posted,
Slows the car down 3MPH or more. Is this # a fact or are you just getting this out of the thin air?
If what you said is true, then there is a force being apply to the wing which then causes the car to slow down. This force is call "Friction". Therefore, you can't say that there's no downforce effect & OEM wing is just for look. Do understand that i did NOT say it will increases speed to the TL's performance. All i said was it might helps keep the car stable at high speed.
Downforce? There is no downforce.
I know you didn't say anything about speed increases, that was just my addition.
Honda has a reputation for being practical, if the wing really had any discenable effect, the company would offer them standard.
The rear spoiler's job is to counter lift. A car experiences lift when the air flowing overtop the hood, roof and trunk flows much faster than the air traveling along the car's mechanics-laden underbody. This is also where the flat underbodies of Ferrari and Lotus are effective. Spoilers (and wings) cause air to flow upward at the rear, thus generating a downforce to counter lift, keeping the tires firmly planted on the ground at speed. Essentially, at-the-edge handling and agility are improved.
Many vehicles make use of a lip spoiler, a small upward extension on the very rear of the car that counters lift and reduces drag. A prime BMW example is the latest generation M5; it has a small almost-invisible lip spoiler on the trunk lid. By pooling in front of the lip spoiler or launching upward, the air has less of a chance to become laminar or attached to the rear end. The Porsche 911 automatic rear spoiler will have a similar effect on both countering lift and reducing drag.
In the September 1998 edition of Car And Driver, an aerodynamics test is performed using a Porsche 911 with speed-sensitive spoiler. Both with the spoiler in full operation and with it disabled, Car And Driver took the Porsche through the paces at Chrysler's proving grounds in Chelsea, Michigan. Hard numbers revealed a difference in top speed of only one mile per hour — 165 mph with the spoiler disabled compared to 164. But the magazine notes, "It rode more smoothly, but it felt uncomfortably floaty, wandering more in the lane and feeling less glued to the track. It was hardly dangerous, but more concentration was clearly required at top speed to maintain a straight path...At 145 mph, the 911 rode and steered the same, spoiler up or down."
To sum it up, Car And Driver states you have to be going at "a considerable clip to discern those differences."
Car And Driver also tested a Ford Mustang Cobra with and without its factory wing, noting it contributes to the car's drag. Wing on, the car hit a 150 mph top speed. Wing off, it achieved 153.
Bottom line: If you're going unlawfully fast, a spoiler or wing might be functional. Not much for piece of mind, but read on. "Aerodynamic drag doesn't even exceed tire drag until you've reached 40 to 50 mph," states the magazine. If the spoiler won't do any good at low speeds, why have it deployed, right? "And you may have to be doing well over 100 mph for spoilers and wings to have any appreciable effect on lift or downforce." Car And Driver does cede, "Nearly all cars can benefit from the drag-reducing effects of an air dam."
Automakers confess rear wings and spoilers are more show than go. General Motors uses them to sell cars and Toyota offers them because consumers demand them. "Personally, it hurts to see a Camry with a (non-functioning) spoiler on the back," Donald W. Brown, former national product-planning manager for Toyota in America, told Car And Driver. However, every car is different. Brown notes the Lexus SC's drag coefficient was trimmed from 0.32 to 0.31 with the aid of a factory rear spoiler.
To me, buying a wing would be money poorly spent, money that could have gone to pricier alloys, larger tires or tighter suspension.
#21
Pro
Seotaji:
That was a very clear and precise response! However, i do have another question since you know more about rear spoiler performance. I have a Mit 3000GT VR4 Twin Turbo. The front lip lowered and the rear spoiler lifted-up automatically when i reach the speed of 50+ MPH. Do you think the spoiler on this car is for look too? BTW, the spoiler can be up or down with a touch of a button as well.
That was a very clear and precise response! However, i do have another question since you know more about rear spoiler performance. I have a Mit 3000GT VR4 Twin Turbo. The front lip lowered and the rear spoiler lifted-up automatically when i reach the speed of 50+ MPH. Do you think the spoiler on this car is for look too? BTW, the spoiler can be up or down with a touch of a button as well.
#22
First of all,
Good choice in automobiles.
Second,
Yes, those spoilers actually do work, very well actually.
The front lip spoiler directs the air away from the bottom of the car which reduces the tendancy of the car to lift at higher speed.
The rear spoiler adds downforce and helps the tires to grab the pavement better when you are going as fast as the turbo's wil let you.
Good choice in automobiles.
Second,
Yes, those spoilers actually do work, very well actually.
The front lip spoiler directs the air away from the bottom of the car which reduces the tendancy of the car to lift at higher speed.
The rear spoiler adds downforce and helps the tires to grab the pavement better when you are going as fast as the turbo's wil let you.
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#23
I was going to post the same C&D info that Seotaji referenced. For all intents and purposes, the OEM spoiler is for looks only. I highly doubt Honda/Acura has taken a TL to the wind tunnel with a spoiler mounted on the trunk to observe the effects.
If the spolier *was* going to be functional, as Seotaji said it would only be at triple digit speeds. It may produce some rear downforce, which is certainly welcome in a FWD car, but at the same time it is going to produce some drag which will ultimately reduce top speed.
Some spoilers are absolutely necessary for stable operation of a vehicle. Witness the Audi TT debacle, where after several reports of cars spinning out on the Autobahn, Audi took the car to the wind tunnel and determined a small lip spoiler was necessary on the rear of the car to increase downforce and reduce lift. You can no longer order a TT without a spoiler.
FWIW, I have the rear spoiler and love the way it looks. I also have the moonroof visor, which I like for function over looks, but I'm sure that causes as much (if not more) drag as the rear spoiler.
If the spolier *was* going to be functional, as Seotaji said it would only be at triple digit speeds. It may produce some rear downforce, which is certainly welcome in a FWD car, but at the same time it is going to produce some drag which will ultimately reduce top speed.
Some spoilers are absolutely necessary for stable operation of a vehicle. Witness the Audi TT debacle, where after several reports of cars spinning out on the Autobahn, Audi took the car to the wind tunnel and determined a small lip spoiler was necessary on the rear of the car to increase downforce and reduce lift. You can no longer order a TT without a spoiler.
FWIW, I have the rear spoiler and love the way it looks. I also have the moonroof visor, which I like for function over looks, but I'm sure that causes as much (if not more) drag as the rear spoiler.
#24
Shogun Assassin
I think that the Acura OEM spoiler is a little plain since I've seen the Inspire one :wow: Right now, my WDP TL-S looks pretty good without the spoiler.....if I ever do get one, it'll have to be the Inspire one, but snap...that thing costs hella bucks.
![Smash](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smash.gif)
#25
Retired MOD
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Age: 47
Posts: 3,995
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally posted by Seotaji
sorry to burst your bubble yo.
the automaker only offers it b/c the people ask.
cars are designed without spoilers, since for regular use, passenger cars will never fully utilize/achieve the speeds needed where it would be effective.
sorry to burst your bubble yo.
the automaker only offers it b/c the people ask.
cars are designed without spoilers, since for regular use, passenger cars will never fully utilize/achieve the speeds needed where it would be effective.
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
the one on a acura tl or for any car for that matter acutally slows the car down 3MPH or more.
#26
IMO don't think so. if anything it would be under a 1mph.
Our spoiler has no major used is just for looks.
![Confused](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
#27
Retired MOD
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Age: 47
Posts: 3,995
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally posted by Seotaji
I don't understand your logic, you say it would only slow the car down 1 MPH?
I don't understand your logic, you say it would only slow the car down 1 MPH?
Originally posted by Seotaji
That is my point, are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?
That is my point, are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?
![Confused](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif)
#28
Instructor
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Barnegat, NJ
Age: 49
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Forget about the performance issue with the spoiler. If you plan on reaching a goal of 153mph, and you only hit 150mph, then forget the spoiler. On the other hand, if you want your car to look DAMN good with the OEM underbody kit, then get the spoiler. They compliment each other nicely....... I get nothing but compliments.
#29
Retired MOD
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Age: 47
Posts: 3,995
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally posted by BJsTLS
They compliment each other nicely....... I get nothing but compliments.
They compliment each other nicely....... I get nothing but compliments.
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
the compliments are crazy....way too many. I mean everyday, every hour. Is crazy how people check my car out.:wow: :wow:
#30
Advanced
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Age: 41
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by CKacura
Seotaji:
That was a very clear and precise response! However, i do have another question since you know more about rear spoiler performance. I have a Mit 3000GT VR4 Twin Turbo. The front lip lowered and the rear spoiler lifted-up automatically when i reach the speed of 50+ MPH. Do you think the spoiler on this car is for look too? BTW, the spoiler can be up or down with a touch of a button as well.
Seotaji:
That was a very clear and precise response! However, i do have another question since you know more about rear spoiler performance. I have a Mit 3000GT VR4 Twin Turbo. The front lip lowered and the rear spoiler lifted-up automatically when i reach the speed of 50+ MPH. Do you think the spoiler on this car is for look too? BTW, the spoiler can be up or down with a touch of a button as well.
#31
In my opinion I think it does not decrease speed at all, but I haven't tested so I can't tell you that as a fact.
Go to a drag strip and race another TL without a spoiler and see who has the faster time.
Perform multiple runs.
Average out the results.
I was only talking about the TL. You were implying cars and passenger cars in plural, so no I do not agree with you on that. Just the TL. In my understaing you meant passenger cars against racing cars(not on the street).....right?
No, I meant that regular cars racing against others, or by themselves. Why would I compare against racing cars?
Racing cars don't have wings that just look good, they actually perform a function, whereas ours do not.
Form > Function, except in the case of passenger cars.
#32
Intermediate
I've got the spoiler for looks. I'm sure it doesn't really affect performance that much at all.
One added benefit that I'm very happy with though is that I can see where the trunk ends when backing up, something I couldn't do without the spoiler.
One added benefit that I'm very happy with though is that I can see where the trunk ends when backing up, something I couldn't do without the spoiler.
#33
Without drag strip testing, you'd never notice the difference.
Except for maybe racing on the highway with one of your boys who also owns a TL.
The person with less drag (all conditions being equal) would pull ahead a little bit.
Except for maybe racing on the highway with one of your boys who also owns a TL.
The person with less drag (all conditions being equal) would pull ahead a little bit.
#34
Retired MOD
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Age: 47
Posts: 3,995
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally posted by Seotaji
You are guessing without any evidence in your favor?
Go to a drag strip and race another TL without a spoiler and see who has the faster time.
Perform multiple runs.
Average out the results.
You are guessing without any evidence in your favor?
Go to a drag strip and race another TL without a spoiler and see who has the faster time.
Perform multiple runs.
Average out the results.
#35
Retired MOD
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Age: 47
Posts: 3,995
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally posted by Seotaji
Yes, most can automobiles carry passengers.
No, I meant that regular cars racing against others, or by themselves. Why would I compare against racing cars?
Racing cars don't have wings that just look good, they actually perform a function, whereas ours do not.
.
Yes, most can automobiles carry passengers.
No, I meant that regular cars racing against others, or by themselves. Why would I compare against racing cars?
Racing cars don't have wings that just look good, they actually perform a function, whereas ours do not.
.
All passenger cars as carry passengers. F1 car is not a passenger car.
Originally posted by Seotaji
the automaker only offers it b/c the people ask.
cars are designed without spoilers, since for regular use, passenger cars will never fully utilize/achieve the speeds needed where it would be effective.
the automaker only offers it b/c the people ask.
cars are designed without spoilers, since for regular use, passenger cars will never fully utilize/achieve the speeds needed where it would be effective.
#36
Dude get a life.
I don't need evidence
There are so many factors too, that I don't validate that test at all.
Funny thing is that you never said anything about the way I proposed to go about measuring the cars for top speed. All you did was insult.
I stand by my opinion that they would be as much as 3MPH slower than the next guy.
----
This is funny.
You compare apples to oranges.
Why would a near-luxury sedan or any regular NA (naturally aspirated) automobile who doesn't regularly see the triple digit speeds that a Nissan Skyline would, need lift reduction or stability control?
IF you had read the articles I posted, then you would have seen where it explained why some cars from the factory needed it and some didn't.
It utilizes all the rear wing, front diffuser and rear diffuser to created stability and downforced. I have seen skylines go faster than 200mph.
Skylines have allwheel drive, 350+ HP Twin Turbo, Top speed 180KPH.
A sports car.
Four door TL's are front wheel drive, 225HP N/A, Top speed 132 (if that).
Near-luxury car.
Lets get back to reality here, the only places that Skylines are every really driven hard in the US is the track, where they would need all the downforce and lift reduction they could get, since they would be traveling at their maximum speed most of the time.
Show me a TL that can go nearly 200MPH and I'll show you a TL with all the aerodynamic mods that will help it stay there.
Racing cars = F1 (a lot of wigns)
All passenger cars as carry passengers.
F1 car is not a passenger car.
All passenger cars as carry passengers.
F1 car is not a passenger car.
Everyone knows that an F1 auto is not for passengers, and yes, all passenger cars carry passengers.
You really need to educate yourself on aerodynamics and improve your critical reading skills, so that you might make some sense when you form an argument.
#39
Retired MOD
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Age: 47
Posts: 3,995
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
How old are you 15??
I said it was stupid subject. And it is.
no wasting my unemployed time on this![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
but when I go to moroso, I will test, even if it would be very stupid because of so many factors fall in place, that it would never be accurate.
Watch guys, our body kits are slowing us down 10 mph and you know why, because the body kit on the mustang slowed it down 10mph in a test that can't be accurate.
BTW they didn't have logic at my school. :p
Dude I'm just laughing at your ignorance.
Don't take it personal.
I said it was stupid subject. And it is.
no wasting my unemployed time on this
![Big Grin](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
but when I go to moroso, I will test, even if it would be very stupid because of so many factors fall in place, that it would never be accurate.
Watch guys, our body kits are slowing us down 10 mph and you know why, because the body kit on the mustang slowed it down 10mph in a test that can't be accurate.
BTW they didn't have logic at my school. :p
Dude I'm just laughing at your ignorance.
Don't take it personal.
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)