Lawaia

Well the next mod on my '00 would be to add a rear wing. I seen several pics that had the OEM bodykit w/no wing and I thought it looked really good. But on the other hand it looks like something is missing. What do you guys think....with or without?? Opinions...please!! NEED INPUT! Thanks!

edgalang

Well I had a bodykit without a wing for a full year and thought it looked good, but I ended up getting a wing now since my bodyshop ofered it. Personally I wouldnt pay for the OEM wing just becuause it's so damn expensive.

payyourtoll

I plan on staying wingless

my99tl

Ditto

rayman009(2)

what exactly does a wing do? other there for looks...?

payyourtoll

nada

CKacura

WW rear spoiler might just be for looks. However, I think an OEM rear spoiler addsome effects to the car as well as looks. Winds can get underneath it, which produce the downforce effect during high speeds. As a result, it helps keep the car more stable.

emfrench

I plan to get th OEM body kit w/o a rear wing also.

neuronbob

I prefer the smooth lines of the car without a rear wing..for now. However, it took me a long time and many visits to the TL gallery before making this decision. It's not that the OEM wing looks bad (looks great!), it's that it's not for me right now. If the wing actually offered a benefit, It'd probably be worth it. I'd like some proof it actually does anything.

SoundSpeed

Bodykit with the oem wing is awesome. It gives it a much sportier look while still maintaining a very tasteful appearance.

Seotaji

sorry to burst your bubble yo.

the automaker only offers it b/c the people ask.
cars are designed without spoilers, since for regular use, passenger cars will never fully utilize/achieve the speeds needed where it would be effective.

a lip spoiler, such as the one on m3 and m5's actually produce downforce at a certain high speed and create minimal drag.

the one on a acura tl or for any car for that matter acutally slows the car down 3MPH or more.

go try it with two TL's, one with a spoiler and one without.

if i were to get a spoiler, form would have to follow function.
i believe that WW makes a lip spoiler.

it pains me to see things attached to cars that actually make them perform worse.

SoundSpeed

It is not always for performance. An OEM spoiler just looks good. 3MPH to me is nothing compared to the awesome look I believe it gives the car.

VeiLsTyleZ

i like it with the oem wing better~
the rear of the tl looks weird because it curves down(IMO)....add any wing and it looks good. 5 series look weird with a wing cuz the trunk is straight..i like 5 series without a wing.

CKacura

Slows the car down 3MPH or more. Is this # a fact or are you just getting this out of the thin air?

If what you said is true, then there is a force being apply to the wing which then causes the car to slow down. This force is call "Friction". Therefore, you can't say that there's no downforce effect & OEM wing is just for look. Do understand that i did NOT say it will increases speed to the TL's performance. All i said was it might helps keep the car stable at high speed.

JD7

I like the tl with no spoiler personally, i just like the trunk alot, its very clean.

dimsumo

I got OEM bodykit and spoiler

It looks nice

Lawaia

Thanks for the input guys. I'm still as confused as I was before (not any of your faults). I don't look at the rear wing as a functional piece of gear but rather as Sound said giving the car a sportier look. And it's not like I can easily take it off if I don't like it. Hmmm...has anyone thought of attaching the wing with some super adhesive double-stick tape? Would that work?? Just a thought.

2007AcuraRL

You cant attach the OEM style with double stick. It will never stay on, and needless to say it will scratch the hell out of the car if it flops off while you are driving. I installed the OEM body kit and had it on my car for about 2 months without the trunk spoiler. They get WAY to much for it at the dealer. BTW, Tim sells an OEM look-alike at this site but i got mine from sportwing.com. (They did a flawless paint job/color match for an unbeleiveably great price. I got it off ebay, brand spanking new for $175).
Anyway, after having driven without the spoiler for awhile, it took about 2 weeks to get used to the look with it on. The car looked good either way, but in retrospect, i am happier with the appearance with the spoiler on. The trunk slopes down so the spoiler gives it a more squared off, finished appearance IMHO when used along with the body kit.

Lucky Devin

Get the wing !!! Of course your car is going to be fine without it, and still look very good, but I think a wing is a nice accent. I'm assuming you're going to put the OEM wing on there (or one like it) instead of a huge 14in aluminum wing, right ?

A few cars don't look right without wings IMO; ex: Accord coupe and 4th gen Pre'.

Seotaji

SoundSpeed posted,
I agree.

CKacura posted,
It's fact.

Friction? No, it's drag.

Downforce? There is no downforce.

I know you didn't say anything about speed increases, that was just my addition.

Honda has a reputation for being practical, if the wing really had any discenable effect, the company would offer them standard.

The rear spoiler's job is to counter lift. A car experiences lift when the air flowing overtop the hood, roof and trunk flows much faster than the air traveling along the car's mechanics-laden underbody. This is also where the flat underbodies of Ferrari and Lotus are effective. Spoilers (and wings) cause air to flow upward at the rear, thus generating a downforce to counter lift, keeping the tires firmly planted on the ground at speed. Essentially, at-the-edge handling and agility are improved.

Many vehicles make use of a lip spoiler, a small upward extension on the very rear of the car that counters lift and reduces drag. A prime BMW example is the latest generation M5; it has a small almost-invisible lip spoiler on the trunk lid. By pooling in front of the lip spoiler or launching upward, the air has less of a chance to become laminar or attached to the rear end. The Porsche 911 automatic rear spoiler will have a similar effect on both countering lift and reducing drag.

In the September 1998 edition of Car And Driver, an aerodynamics test is performed using a Porsche 911 with speed-sensitive spoiler. Both with the spoiler in full operation and with it disabled, Car And Driver took the Porsche through the paces at Chrysler's proving grounds in Chelsea, Michigan. Hard numbers revealed a difference in top speed of only one mile per hour — 165 mph with the spoiler disabled compared to 164. But the magazine notes, "It rode more smoothly, but it felt uncomfortably floaty, wandering more in the lane and feeling less glued to the track. It was hardly dangerous, but more concentration was clearly required at top speed to maintain a straight path...At 145 mph, the 911 rode and steered the same, spoiler up or down."

To sum it up, Car And Driver states you have to be going at "a considerable clip to discern those differences."

Car And Driver also tested a Ford Mustang Cobra with and without its factory wing, noting it contributes to the car's drag. Wing on, the car hit a 150 mph top speed. Wing off, it achieved 153.

Bottom line: If you're going unlawfully fast, a spoiler or wing might be functional. Not much for piece of mind, but read on. "Aerodynamic drag doesn't even exceed tire drag until you've reached 40 to 50 mph," states the magazine. If the spoiler won't do any good at low speeds, why have it deployed, right? "And you may have to be doing well over 100 mph for spoilers and wings to have any appreciable effect on lift or downforce." Car And Driver does cede, "Nearly all cars can benefit from the drag-reducing effects of an air dam."

Automakers confess rear wings and spoilers are more show than go. General Motors uses them to sell cars and Toyota offers them because consumers demand them. "Personally, it hurts to see a Camry with a (non-functioning) spoiler on the back," Donald W. Brown, former national product-planning manager for Toyota in America, told Car And Driver. However, every car is different. Brown notes the Lexus SC's drag coefficient was trimmed from 0.32 to 0.31 with the aid of a factory rear spoiler.

To me, buying a wing would be money poorly spent, money that could have gone to pricier alloys, larger tires or tighter suspension.

CKacura

Seotaji:
That was a very clear and precise response! However, i do have another question since you know more about rear spoiler performance. I have a Mit 3000GT VR4 Twin Turbo. The front lip lowered and the rear spoiler lifted-up automatically when i reach the speed of 50+ MPH. Do you think the spoiler on this car is for look too? BTW, the spoiler can be up or down with a touch of a button as well.

Seotaji

First of all,

Good choice in automobiles.

Second,

Yes, those spoilers actually do work, very well actually.

The front lip spoiler directs the air away from the bottom of the car which reduces the tendancy of the car to lift at higher speed.

The rear spoiler adds downforce and helps the tires to grab the pavement better when you are going as fast as the turbo's wil let you.

pianoman41

I was going to post the same C&D info that Seotaji referenced. For all intents and purposes, the OEM spoiler is for looks only. I highly doubt Honda/Acura has taken a TL to the wind tunnel with a spoiler mounted on the trunk to observe the effects.

If the spolier *was* going to be functional, as Seotaji said it would only be at triple digit speeds. It may produce some rear downforce, which is certainly welcome in a FWD car, but at the same time it is going to produce some drag which will ultimately reduce top speed.

Some spoilers are absolutely necessary for stable operation of a vehicle. Witness the Audi TT debacle, where after several reports of cars spinning out on the Autobahn, Audi took the car to the wind tunnel and determined a small lip spoiler was necessary on the rear of the car to increase downforce and reduce lift. You can no longer order a TT without a spoiler.

FWIW, I have the rear spoiler and love the way it looks. I also have the moonroof visor, which I like for function over looks, but I'm sure that causes as much (if not more) drag as the rear spoiler.

fahoumh

I think that the Acura OEM spoiler is a little plain since I've seen the Inspire one :wow: Right now, my WDP TL-S looks pretty good without the spoiler.....if I ever do get one, it'll have to be the Inspire one, but snap...that thing costs hella bucks.

Bitium

sure :p click here our cars go 150 mph. Both rear spoiler and diffusers are made to start working at 80km/h around 50mph on the skyline

IMO don't think so. if anything it would be under a 1mph. Our spoiler has no major used is just for looks.

Seotaji

I don't understand your logic, you say it would only slow the car down 1 MPH?

That is my point, are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?

Bitium

Go back and read. I said if anything just letting room for unsurnes. In my opinion I think it does not decrease speed at all, but I haven't tested so I can't tell you that as a fact. So if anything I think it would be 1mph and not 3mph.


I was only talking about the TL. You were implying cars and passenger cars in plural, so no I do not agree with you on that. Just the TL. In my understaing you meant passenger cars against racing cars(not on the street).....right?

BJSTLS

Forget about the performance issue with the spoiler. If you plan on reaching a goal of 153mph, and you only hit 150mph, then forget the spoiler. On the other hand, if you want your car to look DAMN good with the OEM underbody kit, then get the spoiler. They compliment each other nicely....... I get nothing but compliments.

Bitium

talk about those. One time 3 guys were driving in the parking lot, when the pass my car. They stop, all 3 got out of the car and when arournd mine checking out. They didn't know I was watching.

the compliments are crazy....way too many. I mean everyday, every hour. Is crazy how people check my car out.:wow: :wow:

Lucky Devin

My podnuh's dad had a VR4 TT, and he let us take it out on special occasions. Damn good car. As for the front spoiler, it's definitely not for look but to increace downforce.

Seotaji

You are guessing without any evidence in your favor?

Go to a drag strip and race another TL without a spoiler and see who has the faster time.

Perform multiple runs.

Average out the results.

Yes, most can automobiles carry passengers.

No, I meant that regular cars racing against others, or by themselves. Why would I compare against racing cars?
Racing cars don't have wings that just look good, they actually perform a function, whereas ours do not.

Form > Function, except in the case of passenger cars.

Squidboy

I've got the spoiler for looks. I'm sure it doesn't really affect performance that much at all.

One added benefit that I'm very happy with though is that I can see where the trunk ends when backing up, something I couldn't do without the spoiler.

Seotaji

Without drag strip testing, you'd never notice the difference.

Except for maybe racing on the highway with one of your boys who also owns a TL.

The person with less drag (all conditions being equal) would pull ahead a little bit.

Bitium

Dude get a life. you are guessing too, or better yet asuming. Because a totaly different car slow down 3mph does not mean anything on the TL. I don't need evidence and don't have any same as you. This is a stupid subject. what happen to that mustang, well who knows. The mustang is not the most aredynamic car every created anyways. There are so many factors too, that I don't validate that test at all.

Bitium

Racing cars = F1 (a lot of wigns)

All passenger cars as carry passengers. F1 car is not a passenger car.

The skyline is a passenger car. It utilizes all the rear wing, front diffuser and rear diffuser to created stability and downforced. I have seen skylines go faster than 200mph.

Seotaji

I would ask you to do the same. I would also ask you to return to school and take physics and logic again. You obviously failed both.

Your argument shows this.

I agree with you, there are many differences between the Mustang and the TL, so much so that they would be very different when it came time to test them on the track.

Funny thing is that you never said anything about the way I proposed to go about measuring the cars for top speed. All you did was insult.

I stand by my opinion that they would be as much as 3MPH slower than the next guy.

----

This is funny.

You compare apples to oranges.

Why would a near-luxury sedan or any regular NA (naturally aspirated) automobile who doesn't regularly see the triple digit speeds that a Nissan Skyline would, need lift reduction or stability control?

IF you had read the articles I posted, then you would have seen where it explained why some cars from the factory needed it and some didn't.

Wow, that's great, give yourself a cookie.

Skylines have allwheel drive, 350+ HP Twin Turbo, Top speed 180KPH.
A sports car.

Four door TL's are front wheel drive, 225HP N/A, Top speed 132 (if that).
Near-luxury car.

Lets get back to reality here, the only places that Skylines are every really driven hard in the US is the track, where they would need all the downforce and lift reduction they could get, since they would be traveling at their maximum speed most of the time.

Show me a TL that can go nearly 200MPH and I'll show you a TL with all the aerodynamic mods that will help it stay there.

You still don't make any sense.

Everyone knows that an F1 auto is not for passengers, and yes, all passenger cars carry passengers.

You really need to educate yourself on aerodynamics and improve your critical reading skills, so that you might make some sense when you form an argument.

CKacura

Is it 12th round yet?:p

Seotaji

DING DING!

Bitium

How old are you 15??

I said it was stupid subject. And it is.

no wasting my unemployed time on this

but when I go to moroso, I will test, even if it would be very stupid because of so many factors fall in place, that it would never be accurate.

Watch guys, our body kits are slowing us down 10 mph and you know why, because the body kit on the mustang slowed it down 10mph in a test that can't be accurate.

BTW they didn't have logic at my school. :p

Dude I'm just laughing at your ignorance.

Don't take it personal.

asif2002

Simmer down boys.