paultl

i was messing with my friend on freeway (880). so i decided to see how fast his car really is compared to my tl-s so i punch it and hit 120 pretty quickly, but then he decided to show me how 300 lbs of torque really feels like it. before i knew it he hit 140 before i even had a chance to downshift to 4th gear!!!

word of advice, stay away from lexus gs400!!

Edub-TL

Stay away? hehe.. that is what I'm buying next after I give my TL to the wife..

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June 10, 11AM - N. Cali / Bay Area Meet - Click Here!
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/phanthavong/mytl.html" TARGET=_blank>


</A>2001 SSM. 02 tails, 02 vent trim, burlwood knob.

Mods? What mods? I can't afford mods, I'm getting married!!
Vin says 2001, but it's really a 2000 with an upgraded cupholder!!

SLVR TL

GS430 is quicker.

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Y2K SiLVeR TL, non-navi
SLVR TL Homepage

SoCal TL meet on June 9th, 2001 at 3pm

bobatimez

for 47k starting, it better be fast, but i think it's still a waste of money for a sedan. get an m3. the tl is fast enough for a sedan.

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Some Said, "TL Type S," Soon They Will Say, "Wannabe TL-S." Laguna METALLIC, Navi, Side Cuts, Tint All Around, Interior Footwell Lighting, Eibach ProKit, PIAA 1700x Fogs custom cut into side holes, Akimoto Intake, Inspire Tails, 17" Type-S Rims with 215/45/17 Bridgestone Potenza RE730's, Visor, Wood Shifter, Comptech Sways making me ride on rails...

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...026&Auth=false

Guest

bobatimez:

I am so jealous...YOu got some excellent collections. I wish I can take pics like that..

=(

SLVR TL

BTW, I saw a white GS300 w/ IS300 rims. It looked pretty good.

chiawei

If your friend ever want to race, come back in August, when my 350HP 530i will be ready.

anyway, GS430 is a fun car. But still a bit vague to be a true sport sedan. Your friend should have bought a 540i.

hunter001

How are you bumping up your horsepower by 125HP in your 530i ? Turbocharging ??



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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

TL-SorMaxima

I was considering a used GS400 in my car search until I found the TL-S. I liked the GS400 a lot, but was getting jerked around by the salesman. When it came time to decide, I thought I would enjoy the new TL-S more than a '98 GS400, and it would cost me about $7000 less!

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2002 TL Type S
Nighthawk Black Pearl
Black interior

TL-SorMaxima

One other thing - if I wanted to spend the money for a GS430, that would be my first choice for a great sedan. The M3 is great, but I need a sedan. Even in 4-door version, the M3 was way too small for me.

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2002 TL Type S
Nighthawk Black Pearl
Black interior

DJ Iceman

"anyway, GS430 is a fun car. But still a bit vague to be a true sport sedan. Your friend should have bought a 540i."

Chiawei, I realize that you think BMWs truly are "the ultimate driving machine" and that all other cars pale in comparison, but isn't it just the slightest bit possible that you've been so taken in by that marketing campaign that you're the tiniest bit brainwashed? How do you define a "true sport sedan"? And if you think the 540i is it, then what do you call the M5?

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Why doesn't everybody make cars as well as Acura?

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Iceman on June 06, 2001 @ ]</font>

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

I agree w/ what you're saying, but Chi has a point too. I'm not saying you haven't, but you'd really have to drive these cars to the limit to understand the differences. The GS430 is still more cush and plush than the 540i w/ Sport Pkg. BMW's just tend to have better balance than other cars, and honestly I don't think the marketing campaigns of BMW are nearly as bad and fickle as those from Nissan -- As least BMW doesn't have their cars crashing through sheets of glass or kicking up dust in the sand plains to attract their mid-20-something buyers. Last I remember, I saw a BMW commercial for the 530i where it was ripping it up in the twisties of a curvy mountain.

chiawei

Personally speaking, I do not think 540i and M5 handles better than 530i/SPP. But all three will out handle GS430 with ease.

GS430 is still too soft. It's a great car, but still a little too soft to be a true sport sedan.

Brainwashed-may be. But from my personal experience, GS430 handles okay, but just not something that really stands out.

DJ Iceman

You make excellent, moderate points. I guess I'm just a little bitter because I bought into that "ultimate driving machine" tagline which BMW works so hard to sell. I love driving my Bimmer, but that's where the love affair ends. It's a maintenance nightmare and the build quality is unacceptable in a car that costs that much. As long as BMW can keep making us THINK that they build "the ultimate driving machine", they don't really have to build it. Perception is reality...

chiawei

ESS Supercharger kit due in July. 350HP and 357 ib/ft of torque.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Are you doing anything to that tranny to make it handle that new power -- and what's the pwr to the rear wheels going to be?

No work to intake/exhaust necessary?

Guest

Sweet! That's a lot of work your doing on that bimmer. I'm currently around 330 and 370, respectively. Interested in a little race? ^_^

chiawei

I am looking for a 540i transmission at this time. Hopefully I can locate a used one.

I will race when the kit it out in july. There is a host of other things that I need to do before that.

Like tires and wheels, body kit, and pedals.

hunter001

If you are doing all these to a new 530i, then why did you not purchase the 540i in the first place ?



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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

MB45

Great Point Iceman..
I know many others who agree..

chiawei

The wait time on 540i was 6 months. I had not choice.

Plus, had i bought 540i, i would certainly spend another 20K on top of it on a Dinan supercharger.

The ESS kit is $7000. Even including labor, it won't costs more than $10K. Which means I could use the 10k left over on something else.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

The 528/530i has been said to have been a better handler b/c it was lighter than the 540i w/ the same sport pkg. Dinan modified a 528i for C&D about two years ago -- I still have the article if you're interested -- and they had it running around 300+ hp and they said it was lighter, more agile, and just as quick if not quicker. The lighter engine offers better balance according to the article, and the mods hardly add much more weight. Just a thought.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

After spending close to $60,000 for a modified BMW, is this thing gunna be as reliable longterm as a stock Beemer, or aren't you concerned?

Guest

why are you comparing a supercharged 530 to a stock GS430??...i dont know if you aware this but for the GS...there is a torque converter upgrade that improve .5 second 0-60 .. and chip+intake upgrade that put more than 30 hps to the wheels...and only with these mods the GS 400 can hang with an M5
not to mention there are 3 level of super chargers...that put as much as 700 hps and there is proof of that...go to www.clubluxus.com and seee for yourself ....so if u wanna compare a souped up BMW then comparing it to a souped up LEXUS..it is only fair

chiawei

The way i see it is this. Two years down the road, my bimmer will be problem plagued. So why not mod it in the 1st 2 year and enjoy the fun.

ESS offers 2 year unlimited warranty. So after 2 years, I simply sell the car and buy a E60 M5.

this car is just a learning step onto rear drive.

RHINO928

Why would you do all of these mods to a car that is still not going to be REALLY fast??

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RHINO928

'02 TL-S Silver/Ebony
'85 928S Supercharged
'WB 911 V-8
http://pws.prserv.net/4play/911chevy/index.html

AC

Chi, you should have done what I did...wait aound 7 months and get the REAL DEAL!
I too was gonna opt for a new 540i 6spd, but the salesman told me 4to6 months out, and then he said for about $10K more and about 2 more months, why not get the M5. Sure enough, he talked me into it. Can't wait, but believe it or not, I'm more pumped about the next gen MB E Class. Hopefully, if finances pan out, I'll get "the woman" the ne E430 SPP.

AC

Just out of curiosity, which Bimmer do you own Iceman?

Also, I agree with Chi, test drove the GS430 and the car was very plush. If they had a SPP upgrade perhaps it would be a true apples to apples to the 540i SPP. Also, if Lexus had 6spd on the GS, man, that would be very interesting...I might of contmplated on one since I love the Lexus NAVI

theanimala

Well, I have a GS400 and I don't feel any threat of any BMW shy of the M5. I agree, the GS4X0 is too plush riding, but that because Lexus is catering to their target market. For a VERY small price, you can purchase L-Tuned equipment (higher performance Lexus parts) and have your GS ride as good as any BMW. There is also a $125 steering ECU which firms up the steering to BMW levels. The best part, an L-tuned GS is still $5000 cheaper then a 540i, yet it will outrun it. Plus, you get the reliability of Lexus (you drive it more then it is in the shop).

No BMW will ever be an option to me because of their reliability issues and dealer attitude. I bought my '98 GS400 loaded with every option 9 months ago for the low $30's, and I haven't looked back.

I would (and will) purchase and Acura though. I frequent this board because in a couple of months my wife will be driving a nice new TL-S. I'm glad to see that I will still be able to outrun her

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Great minds must think alike ... see, the TL-S is just my stepping stone to the Ferrari Modena I have on order.

chiawei

Very funny.

Actually I am dead serious. Bimmer are good for 2-3 year. After that problem would start to plague the car. M5 is not much more than 540i (probably in 2 years, it will be around $80k). Since i did not own a rear drive car until now, it would be right for me to learn to drive a rear wheel drive car and will really be able to drive the new E60 M5.

chiawei

Well, my objective is not really to run that fast. I just want to see how much power that I can handle with rear drive. After I do the conversion plus other upgrade, my car should be very close to 370-380HP range. I can learn to use that power and have fun with it.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Forget the 400 .. I'd be in a GS430 if it weren't for the RWD! Those things will run w/ stick M3's no prob. Hehehe, and they're automatics, so I can let my mother do it too w/ no problems.

chiawei

Having spend sometime and Japan. The only Toyota Sedan that would come close to the BMW handling would be Aristo Twin turbo. And i believe that it's suspension parts, chassis upgrade, and steering ECU are not even offered as after market item in US. I do not believe that even with the upgrade you mentioned that GS4X0 would be better than any 5 series with SPP. Especially the lighter weight and much better balanced 525/530i twin.

Not to take anything away from GS series, but Toyota/Lexus never intend it to ride as harsh as SP packaged E49. Unless Toyota allows the same components found on the Aristo twin turbo to make it as an after market item, I seriously doubt that L-tuned GS4X0 would be any better than E39 Sports package. I believe that either MT/C&D did a report on the GS400 sport (special tuned GS400 by Lexus), the review was decent but don't think it was better than 540i Sport. On handling alone, i do not believe that GS series has a chance. It's a decision made by toyota not to export the hot version of the Aristo/GS to the state.

BTW, there are certainly better handling car out there. For example, the Impreza STi was sweet. I wouldn't hesitate a second to trade in a E39 for it (if it ever makes to US).

lonny

Here we go with the BMW crap again. I used to regularly beat ANY Bummer with my GS400 (and I MEAN ANY one). Granted the GS would not hold the road like the Bummer, but I could always out-run them (3's 5's M's - it did not matter - stick or auto). The GS430 will most likely do the same thing, but with the same road manners. An L-Tuned GS430 will easily wipe the road with the Bummers - out-run it and out-handle it too. Only the M might have a chance and only if the driver KNOWS how to drive! I was going to get the GS430 and add the L-Tuned suspension, but after driving the TL-S, it was not worth it to me to spend over $26K more. For a couple of grand, I can make my TL-S faster and handle just as good as an L-Tuned and maybe even better. I'm getting too old to still be racing cars. You young guys can have at it.

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'02 TL-S WDP/Parchment NAV

chiawei

Perhaps you are dreaming off a bit.

Without any mods, your old GS400 will only barely outrun a regular 540i automatic, let alone the 6 speed version.

Please fill the board with intelligent post. Secondly, L-tune GS still does not come even close to the handling of a BMW, let alone its Aristo Twin Turbo twin.

Post like this usually lead to flame war. Perhaps use better judgement next time.

chiawei

By the way, Lonny, you are saying that TL-S will a few mod will have same balance and chassis integrity of GS/BMW.

Man i can't wait to see what you plan to do. Let you in on a secret. Your TL-S is riding on a family sedan Accord chassis.

I dare you to throw you car into a 90 degree turn at higher speed. Unless you install a steel cage inside the body of TL-S. There is no way you can sit there and tell me how strong TL's chassis really is.

Because I also own a TL. So please tell me how are you going to upgrade your chassis and handling. I am all yours.



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1998-Sienna
2000-Laguna Green TL
2001-Burnished Gold RX300
2001-BrilliantSilver C320
2001-Titanium Silver 530i

hunter001

I agree with the above post. The TL is mainly a luxury cruiser with a bit of a sporty nature. And to compare its handling with purpose-built cars, made for handling, is a mistake and is foolish. In fact, if you want to compare Hondas that will embarass most BMWs in handling, you need to go to the S2000 or the NSX...they will out-handle pretty much anything on the road....

Also, Chiawei, please go and drive the European Accord Type-R....again a car built on a "family car chassis"....other-worldly handling, may I add...during a recent trip to England, I drove one of them briefly (right hand drive with gear shifting with the left hand).....you will have to be told about it, else you would not suspect that it is a Front-wheel-drive car....absolutely fabulous handling....

In a test about a year back by a premier European magazine, they tested lots of sedans available there for handling, and the final tally went like this:

1)Audi S4 (AWD)
2)Honda Accord Type-R (FWD)
3)BMW 328i with Sport Package (RWD)

and then a host of others.....

How did this "Family car chassis" thrash the BMW 328i with the sport package in handling ?? How did this "Family car chassis" hang-in with the Audi S4 and lost by just 1 single point, in handling ??

It is just that, the Accord Type-R was purpose-built by Honda to hang with the best handlers in the market. Also, if you notice, the suspension in the Accord/TL etc., are what are found on Ferraris and Lamborghinis and F1 Race cars....Double wishbone suspension on all four ends ....just that the tuning of the TL etc is more for comfort than handling finesse..... The TL is not built to be a phenomenal handler and if someone believes otherwise, they are wrong. To compare the handling of the cushy riding TL with other cars purpose built for handling is also not fair nor correct.

If Honda builds an "R" version of the TL , then let us talk about its handling......I guarantee that it will kick a lot of well-heeled butts in handling and acceleration....the TL-s should not be compared with Honda's "R" cars...it is just a slightly sportier version of the base TL.....

Just my 2c

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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

chiawei

Let me clarify what I meant.

1. The US accord chassis was not designed to be a world handler to begin with. The european and Japan accord is on a smaller and different chassis.

2. I did not get a chance to drive the european type R but did had some fun with a Accord SiR in Japan before. Although handles great, the chassis is still weak. My point was very clear is that without heavy mod to the family car based TL, the chassis just can't match the standard 3 series sport and E39.

I was simply pointing out how ridiculous the previous posts from Lonny was. You can reduce body roll and firm up the steering, but unless you are willing to install a rolling cage in the car, the chassis is still a weak point. This can be easily demonstrated on the current 7 year old Integra Type R chassis. Decent handler, but weak chassis and balance. Although Honda did a great job in giving Integra Type R great handling, but chassis weakness is not that easy to overcome.

chiawei

1. Dobule wishbone suspension by its design principle does offer better handling than macpherson strut in theory. But this does not mean that a more tighter setup with struts witll not perform close to that. BTW, as i recall, even M5 has the macpherson strut in the front. Honda also dealt away with double wishbone in its civic. Again, this is not absolute requirement to have a excellent handling vehicle. Plus, more and more manufacturer are going with the multi-link beam setup in the rear like those of Nissan. I believe that the new Skyline GT-R will also have similar rear setup.

2. If there is a type R TL, that should be compared to the M version of BMW.