DJ Iceman

I've got a 2000 M Roadster. No mods, but I did replace the stock tires with Pirelli P-Zeros. It's fast enough and handles well enough for me as it is!

I wish, though, that I had gotten the 1-2 year maintenance-free honeymoon that chiawei is referring to. My visits back to the maintenance department started the first month I owned it...

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Why doesn't everybody make cars as well as Acura?

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Don't mess with Hunter! LOL! This guy hasn't been wrong once, I'm glad he's on this forum to regulate the B.S.

I agree, isn't the new Integra R (i.e. RSX-R) built on the Civic platform? Funny how they can get a FWD Civic to handle so well.

This is a general comment, not directed at anyone:

The GS430, IMHO, is certainly not meant to be driven to the extreme edge of performance engineering, however, it is meant to (as many have stated) to deliver performance and power that'll supercede 95% of ANYTHING on the road, and deliver that thrill for MANY years -- our last Lexus lasted us 100K+ w/o problems and it was over 6.5 years old, and I suspect the new ones will last even longer. Just because someone has a lot of money doesn't mean they can't appreciate good value, and reliable engineering.

Lexus sales figures speak for themselves, they obviously have appealed to a wide cross-section of Americans that respect its luxury, refinement, peformance and value. The 1989 Lexus LS400 is often referred to as one of the most reliable cars of all time by some people -- I know a lot of people that can appreciate that more than the fact that the M3 is truly one of the best-handling cars of all time.

hunter001

Originally posted by chiawei:
Let me clarify what I meant.

1. The US accord chassis was not designed to be a world handler to begin with. The european and Japan accord is on a smaller and different chassis.

Honda was/is the only manufacturer who could perfect platform sharing across models differing widely in width and length. So yes, the US Accord Chassis is exactly the same as the narrower/shorter Euro/Asian Accords....not even Toyota could perfect this platform sharing...in fact, even though the RX300 and the Toyota Camry are based off the same platform, Toyota admitted that they had to change the floorpan quite a bit, between the two.

Originally posted by chiawei:

2. I did not get a chance to drive the european type R but did had some fun with a Accord SiR in Japan before. Although handles great, the chassis is still weak. My point was very clear is that without heavy mod to the family car based TL, the chassis just can't match the standard 3 series sport and E39.


I have not driven the Accord SiR and hence cannot comment on it...

Originally posted by chiawei:
I was simply pointing out how ridiculous the previous posts from Lonny was. You can reduce body roll and firm up the steering, but unless you are willing to install a rolling cage in the car, the chassis is still a weak point.

I agree...simply making a couple of modifications to a family car, is not going to make it a Sport Sedan...

Originally posted by chiawei:
This can be easily demonstrated on the current 7 year old Integra Type R chassis. Decent handler, but weak chassis and balance. Although Honda did a great job in giving Integra Type R great handling, but chassis weakness is not that easy to overcome.

I beg to differ here.....the below is what I quoted in a different topic:

Incidentally, for people not-in-the-know, in SCCA Pro Racing's Speedvision World Challenge race series, Acura Integra Type R's have won the Touring Car championship every single year since the car's 1997 debut. They dominated the 1998, 1999 and 2000 race seasons, taking the first, second and third slots in the final standings. Pretty impressive for a front-wheel-drive car competing with a field full of AWD and RWD competitors....decimating and humiliating the RWD and AWD competition....

Not a bad performance for a car with a "weak chassis", I would suppose....



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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

thejavagod

Compared to a BMW any Lexus will handle like a damn boat!! It is Lexus company philosophy to sacrifice performance and handling if it will intefere with comfort and quality of the ride which is their #1 priority.

chiawei

No, this is not true. Since 1998 the US accord were moved onto a chassis that is shared with the US odyssey and TL.

The European Accord and Japanese accord is now on a different chassis and is the base of current Japanese version of Odyssey.

The US accord is on a different chassis with introduction of 1998 model year to give it more room. Please go visit www.honda.co.jp.

Originally posted by chiawei:
I was simply pointing out how ridiculous the previous posts from Lonny was. You can reduce body roll and firm up the steering, but unless you are willing to install a rolling cage in the car, the chassis is still a weak point.

I agree...simply making a couple of modifications to a family car, is not going to make it a Sport Sedan...

Originally posted by chiawei:
This can be easily demonstrated on the current 7 year old Integra Type R chassis. Decent handler, but weak chassis and balance. Although Honda did a great job in giving Integra Type R great handling, but chassis weakness is not that easy to overcome.

[b] Don't think its a stock Type R either.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

So why doesn't BMW produce their cars such that they'll last past the two-year mark -- theoretically, THEN they'd be the penultimate driving machine.

DJ Iceman

I know this is an apples to oranges comparison, but with regards to BMW being "the ultimate driving machine"...

About a year ago I moved from Florida to California. 2500 miles or so, all the way across I-10. My wife and I were driving a 2000 M Roadster and a 1998 Acura 3.0CL. Can you guess which car we both wanted to drive every day? (Hint: It was the one that cost $15K less.)

Maybe BMW is "the ultimate racing machine" or "the ultimte performance machine", but there's a lot more to driving (in my mind) than going fast.

To put Lexus and Acura down because their cars provide a much better balance of luxury and performance seems silly!

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Why doesn't everybody make cars as well as Acura?

hunter001

Chiawei states:
"No, this is not true. Since 1998 the US accord were moved onto a chassis that is shared with the US odyssey and TL.
The European Accord and Japanese accord is now on a different chassis and is the base of current Japanese version of Odyssey."

Chiawei, it was in 1998 that Honda perfected the platform-sharing concept by actually being able to produce vehicles varying in size considerably, to be made on the same platform. So yes, the Acura 3.2TL/TL-s/CL/CL-s/American Accord/Japanese Accord/European Accord/US Odyssey/Japanese Odyssey/Acura MDX etc are built on the same platform, even though they vary in size by a lot...the breadth differs the length differs the width differs the wheelbases differ but they are built on the same platform

This was supposed to have been an engineering breakthrough, for an automaker....

Before 1998, Honda had not perfected the platform sharing concept, due to which they tried to market the Accord sold in Europe in the US, due to which you would have found that the US Accord at that time, was a lot smaller than the current one and was also sold elsewhere in the world.

I will try to post a link to the article that explains how Honda managed this....

Cheers!




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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by hunter001 on June 07, 2001 @ ]</font>

hunter001

Chiawei states:
Don't think its a stock Type R either.

But any mods done, if at all, were certainly not on the chassis....and we are talking of the weakness of the chassis, are we not ?!!

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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

chiawei

Actually is the other way around. Honda consolidated its chassis strategy in 1998. There will only be four chassis by 2003. The CIVIC chassis, the japanese accord chassis (medium), US accord (Large), and the RL/NSX replacement chassis.

Prior to 1998, the US accord and Japanese accord are the same model. Europe get a slightly different version, but it basically was the same car world wide. (eaisest way is to verify in GT 2, see the Japanese version of pre 1998 accord).

The current Japanese Accord/Oddssey is built on an update version of pre 1998 accord chassis, but the US post 98 version was a new chassis. The article i believe had you confused was the fact that the large platform for the accord was stretched to become what we know as TL/CL/Inspire/Sabre/MDX today. But the chassis was not shrunk to be used on japanese/european market.

BTW, accord coupe is another different story. As it is exclusively built on the new US large car platform. Hence making it the 1st time that Accord with two different platform was selling in same market.

regards

91M5

Where do I start? So much misinformation.

Someone mentioned that a GS with ecu, intake and tc will hang with one. Simply not true. An M5 has 369ftlbs of torque stock and nearly 400hp. How would this be possible?
I would not argue that my 340hp 91 M5 could hang with a supercharged GS. Come on guys, don't insult our intelligence.

Type R's do handle well (still not as fun as rwd). No argument there. The Acura S cars do need limited slip or something similar to be real sports sedans.

As for BMW's falling apart, I guess my odometer that reads 135k must be wrong. In actual fact, if you correct those minor glitches in the first few years they will go 200k plus.

Lonny, you must have a fast GS if it is faster than any BMW. It is surprising given the fact I can think of several that are in its league of faster.



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91 M5
Dinan stuff
18" BBS RC's
340hp

91M5

Hunter,

The Type R has done well in that series but I believe a 328 won last year (it didn't win as many races but finished more). The driver in fact owned another Type R in the series. The series is very competitive and no one is decimating anyone. Damn, I wish I could get Speedvision.

AC

Wow, never imagined that this would get this far. I'm just as guilty, but I think that the post actually read something like "GS are fast" and here we are talking about BMW's, Lexus, Accords, TypeR's, etc. Oh, Speedvision too

Here's my take, the GS430 is a very well made car, yet IMO (remember IMO) I don't think it's quite what a 540i has. Remember, the GS was brought to us by Lexus to compete with the 540i, that's dominated this class like forever. Lexus has come a long way, and frankly, they're close IMO to actually be able to go head to head down to the teeth witht the 540i.

Lonny, I don't quite know what you have or had in your GS but it can't be stock if you were beating all these "bummers", or just simply bad drivers you came accross. I have a 540iA and I know that a GS400/430 will not beat me in the long haul. Perhaps beat me by a bummper to 60. Oh, the M5 "may keep up" comment, HMMMMMM...I'm getting mine in late Sept/early Oct. I'll let you guys know when I come accross 2 or 3 GS430's.

I still love the Integra TypeR, one of the best handling cars I've ever driven...yes, better than NSX IMO. Maybe it was misleading cuz the Teg was able to slalom like hell.

Yes, GS are fast! Yes, 540i are fast! Yes, TypeS is killer bang for the buck! Don't know this yet cuz I haven't owned my 540i for 2 years yet, so can't say mine broke yet...knock on wood.

chiawei

Good luck to you AC.

I just found out that my right rear door will have to be replaced due to the fact that my door window seals and trims were assembled with wrong parts.

Also, my tire was slashed couple days ago, replacement tire is a whopping $300.

roadman

This reply would also address the topic of the Torque vs HP discussion that is under "300 HP".

The GS430 as well as the 540 make more torque (325 each) than HP (280-300). The TL-S on the other hand while producing 260 hp makes 232 lbs of torque. A standard TL as well as the current Maxima's make 216. As you can see the difference of even 16 lbs torque in the case of the TLS vs the TL can be readily felt. It is no wonder that the 540 and the GS430 feel so much faster that a TLS, the additional 90lbs of torgue is a huge advantage. Add into that equation that both the GS and 540 have much lower and broader power bands. They do not need to wait till 5000 rpm to really kick up the ponies.

1SICKLEX

Well a GS 400 faster 0-60 than 430 cause of e-shift (by .1 sec) I have driven my 400 to 150 mph, that was cause the M% I was racing was doing 170.......

BMW are cool but don't ever say Lexus can't compete, with l-tuned mods (think BMW sport) Lexus is right there with the BMW and the Lex will get it in the straights.

Checked out he new 3 lately, steering feels more and more like a ES/TL everyday, BMW trying to please the masses.

Lexus has ES 300 for the tl/I35/volvo crowd, IS 300 for 3/ Audi crowd

GS is extremely fast please approach with caution, and u never know which one of us has modded!!!!

Oh yeah Lexus best selling, most reliable according to FACTS, we can argue opinions..

1SICKLEX

Well a GS 400 faster 0-60 than 430 cause of e-shift (by .1 sec) I have driven my 400 to 150 mph, that was cause the M% I was racing was doing 170.......

BMW are cool but don't ever say Lexus can't compete, with l-tuned mods (think BMW sport) Lexus is right there with the BMW and the Lex will get it in the straights.

Checked out he new 3 lately, steering feels more and more like a ES/TL everyday, BMW trying to please the masses.

Lexus has ES 300 for the tl/I35/volvo crowd, IS 300 for 3/ Audi crowd

GS is extremely fast please approach with caution, and u never know which one of us has modded!!!!

Oh yeah Lexus best selling, most reliable according to FACTS, we can argue opinions..

chiawei

fair assessment. you are right on the point. But i still love my bimmer more than GS.

I was set to buy GS300. But one drive in the E39, i changed my mind almost immediately.

lonny

OK, guys, flame me if you must. Of course, there was some BS in my last post, but, I know what I have done in the past, cars I have driven and beaten. And, as I said before, I have a lot more racing experience than 99% of the public and I have been able to beat faster cars because of my DRIVING ability, the same way I used to beat better tennis players - I am, quite simply, VERY competitive. I have driven all Lexus (except LX470 and SC models), all BMW (except M models), all Audi A4, S4, A6, A8, Benz C and E, Infiniti I and Q. My GS400 was completely stock (at least as far as I know) but it was always able to beat other GS400's. Was it me or the car? I don't know. And I beat BMW 540's all the time! I know that a stock GS is no match (in handling) to a BMW, but I took out a tricked out L-Tuned GS430 and it felt like I was driving an Audi Quattro - it felt glued to the road. I am very sensitive to the handling and performance of vehicles because I used to build, modify and rebuild street racers all the time. I had access to the same shops as Art Carr and Dick Landy (you have to be as old as I am to remember those drag racers). Of course, in those days, cars could not handle, all they could do was go fast in a straight line. Cars today are much more sophisticated. So at the risk of being flamed again, I am going to close by saying that while I would never own a BMW, Nissan or Infiniti (my personal choice based on MY values), I feel that the cars built by BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti, Nissan, Jaguar, and of course, Acura, are ALL great cars. My friends sometimes think of me as a trouble-maker, a rabble-rouser, and I guess by all the flak I took, I raised some eyebrows. I won't be putting down anybody else's cars in the future because we all bought what we bought for our own reasons. People love their BMW's as much as I loved my Lexus and now my Acura. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I will keep my negative ones to myself. While I haven't completely fallen off my "high horse" yet, I have been hit by enemy fire and I am wobbly. Here is my bottom line and then I will shut up: I truly believe that people should buy a car to suit themselves and to impress themselves, NOT others. Lonny has left the building!

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'02 TL-S WDP/Parchment NAV

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

The Acura "S" needs nothing more than what it has now. It's perfectly marketed, in my opinion, to the segment Acura intends it for (though their ad campaigns leave something to be desired if they truly want to appeal to a younger generation). If they ever want to introduce a TL Type R .. I can see the following as being offered on it:

300+ hp, 250+lb-ft V6 engine w/ i-VTEC
400-500lbs lighter
wider, lighter rims, better rubber
std. spoiler
tighter suspension, re-inforced strut bar
lower springs, 13" brakes front, 11.5 rear
sport seats, 6-spd manual
Torsen limited slip (ala Hunter)

But .. who would buy it? It'll cost at least $5K more, and who exactly would prefer this FWD car to a RWD or AWD German competitor? Maybe the die-hard Honda enthusiast, but not enough people to warrant its existence in the states, IMO.

I think peoples' notion of what "sport sedan" truly means varies from person to person .. that's almost like defining what alternative music really is .. There may as well be a gradient from .. sporty sedan .. to sportier sedan .. to true sports sedan.

As a side note -- I've learned more about Honda's in this one post from Hunter and Chi than in any other topic -- thanks guys!

acuraguynj

The GS430 is a sweet car all around.

Price wise it's expensive (not as much as a BMW) so I have checked out the price structure as follows:

1. MSRP (BASE + Mark Levinson Audio Package & 17" Sport Wheel option - which makes this car pretty much fully loaded)

Around $ 51,500 (not exact, but in that area). Hopefully Lexus is discounting these cars several thousand dollars off MSRP, so for example (I still maybe dreaming with these discounted numbers):

$51,500
- 4,000 - Negotiated Discount (estimate of course)
- 20,000 (Trade in for a 99TL with 30K miles (Dreaming again of course)

Equals:
$ 27,500 (Now this is a price range that is more possible).

For a hot looking car that has so much damn power, even if it seems like a boat, you just have to be drawn in by that refined Lexus Power and quality.

The BMW 540 is more expensive and a fully loaded 530ia is more in this Lexus Price range, but doesn't compare eye to eye. But there is something about a BMW that doesn't make it look like that Lexus boat of a GS.

My opinion of course. I've been thinking about this one a lot and it's tearing me apar! LOL!

UCITL

this is an ACURA-TL forum so i think there will be alot more voices supporting the TL. let me state my points.

first of all, every car will have its strengths and weaknesses. the 530/540s will outhandle the GSs and the TLs but its reliablity and service is a BIG problem. the GS300 is faster than the 530i (trust me on this i've seen them race right in front of my eyes) and the 400 faster than the 540i but the handling will be very soft and floaty. the TL has very good value and the performance is great but what i don't like is the weak FWD handling.

chiawei you were set to buy a GS300 but one drive in the E39, and you changed your mind almost immediately. how funny, it was exactly opposite for me. the 528i i testdrove did not satisfy me at all. the interior is dull, handling wasn't as good as my old Sylvia (S14 240sx), and the stereo had problems on the 528i i testdrove. I then went testdriving the GS300. Other than the softer, more comfortable ride i was happy with it. but i thought sportshift on the TL and DVD nav is what i would really like so i got my TL. But even today if i have to choose between 530 and GS300 i would take the lexus.

i've checked out a L-tuned GS300 with my uncle before, and the handling on the GS is as good as the 528i sport, if not better. i think it's more important to get things you can't make up for in the future, in the first place. I would pick the GS over 5 series because the poor handling you can compensate with L-tuned, but you can't make up for the quality and problems and rude service people at BMW (my dad had a 740i. Service people at a BMW dealer in So. California are very rude and stuck up.) Now my dad is considering the new LS430 or the upcoming RL.

Acura is good in it's value. with the money i've saved from gettin a 528i or a GS300 i am able to get some mods to start with. one problem i ran into is that alot of japanese tuner parts are not made for the Inspire. but hey with Comptech and the help from Tim, who cares!

I would say, maybe a supercharged 530 is fast, but don't put your hopes too high. if you compare a supercharged 530 with a turbo GS (watch out for those in a month or two) then you will be PRAYING everyday to get rid of your car and getting a E60 M5 or whatever in your dreams.

Oh yeah, the TL doesn't need to be involved in this battle between GS and 5 series. With the price difference, we can do anything! (where's the comptech supercharger?)

sboje

GS300 faster than a 530? Ha Ha.

I've driven both... it ain't even close and that's what the magazines show also. In fact, the 528 was faster than a GS300. The 3.0l engine is definitely stronger.

chiawei

530i is probably not really interested in racing. Otherwise, from any magazine you can find. GS300 will eat 530i's dust.

Quote:

chiawei you were set to buy a GS300 but one drive in the E39, and you changed your mind almost immediately. how funny, it was exactly opposite for me. the 528i i testdrove did not satisfy me at all. the interior is dull, handling wasn't as good as my old Sylvia (S14 240sx), and the stereo had problems on the 528i i testdrove. I then went testdriving the GS300. Other than the softer, more comfortable ride i was happy with it. But even today if i have to choose between 530 and GS300 i would take the lexus.

Again, that is your opinion. But after I drove the 530i, i am hooked. I had too many boat in my life. So I do not want another boat again. 2nd. I just can't live with a car for too long. My last camry lasted 8 years and 180k miles. Don't want to do that again.

Quote:

i've checked out a L-tuned GS300 with my uncle before, and the handling on the GS is as good as the 528i sport, if not better. i think it's more important to get things you can't make up for in the future, in the first place. I would pick the GS over 5 series because the poor handling you can compensate with L-tuned, but you can't make up for the quality and problems and rude service people at BMW (my dad had a 740i. Service people at a BMW dealer in So. California are very rude and stuck up.) Now my dad is considering the new LS430 or the upcoming RL.

Bay area BMW service and sales sucks, this i totally agree. They do suck big time. Even BMWNA is a joke. But I choose to live with it. Because even with L-tuned upgrade, I still do not like GS series. Had Lexus imported the twin turbo version, i may change my mind. But no.

Quote:

I would say, maybe a supercharged 530 is fast, but don't put your hopes too high. if you compare a supercharged 530 with a turbo GS (watch out for those in a month or two) then you will be PRAYING everyday to get rid of your car and getting a E60 M5 or whatever in your dreams.

Oh yeah, the TL doesn't need to be involved in this battle between GS and 5 series. With the price difference, we can do anything! (where's the comptech supercharger?)

Will i don't really care do i!

Again, no twin turbo Aristo in state is a big mistake by Toyota. Had Lexus imported one, I would probably buy it. But E39 is just too sweet of a car. Plus, I do have other japanese car for daily commute anyway. So E39's so called reliability problem isn't really that big a concern for me. After 2 years, I simply move on to E60 M5.

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1998-Sienna
2000-Laguna Green TL
2001-Burnished Gold RX300
2001-BrilliantSilver C320
2001-Titanium Silver 530i

Guest

<strong>to 91M5</strong>
Okie look at it this way...M5 will do 0-60 in 4.9 seconds and GS400 will do it in 5.8 seconds stock...with the torque converter upgrade..the GS will improve its 0-60 by .5 of a second...they have proof of that at the lexus board go look for yourself...so now the GS run 0-60 in about 5.3 seconds..then there is a SRT intake and add-on chip upgrade for about 1grand that will put more than 30 HPS TO THE WHEELS which i am sure will results about .2 to .3 of a seconds off the 0-60 time..so lets say that the GS now run at 5 seconds flat...the 4.8-4.9 seconds time for the M5 is posted by motor trend with their expert drivers..so i am sure a NORMAL person will not able to achieve this time consistently...dont start this "but i am a good driver" well drivers at motortrend are paid to drive...anyways...if you compare 4.8 to 5.0 seconds 0-60 the M5 will beat the GS by like 1/4 a car MAX(two tenth of a second is really small if you didnt know ...which means that the M5 do not SMOKE the GS at 60 MPH.....and that is given the circumstances that the M5 driver shift perfectly every gear, and if not then he will lose to the GS...for the GS...just floor it..........all that upgrades should be less than $4500, and the GS can be purchased new for less than 50G while the M5 runs at more than 80G...true that everyone will be looking at you when u are in an M5...my friend who is 24 has a CLK55 which he brought with his own $$ and everytime i ride in his car...everyone on the road looks at us...feels great... damn they REALLY LOOK

UCITL

riiiiiight, the 530i is not interested, that's why the guy in the 530 CHALLENGED the GS in the first place (i knew both of them, one was my close friend.) you never rely on magazines for actual car performance. do you live in the magazine world? some mags said the TL is slow. is that true? face it man.


you accused me of just giving an opinion and you replied with YOUR own opinion, how ironic. you're hooked, good for you. easily amazed huh.

what's wrong with a car that can last 8 years? you just don't feel like driving a reliable Japanese car huh. i guess your thinking isn't really practical.

Have you ever driven a GS with L-tuned package? have you ever driven a TL Type-S? don't be so stubborn, be more open-minded man. had lexus imported the twin turbo version, you still won't change your mind because you believe your little 530 with supercharger can outrun it. heck, with BMW's replability, who knows when that S/C will just break into pieces and fall out.


the whole BMW production is a big mistake. should've went down under 30 years ago and be bought by VW. You like your E39, ok. i respect your opinions, but don't go around start talkin about how other cars suck, because you have no ground nor credibility to make such statements.

just my two cents.

sboje

UCITL,

You seem to be the one who can't face reality. Car and Driver tested the GS300 and the 528i AT THE SAME TIME. So you can't blame weather, drivers, or surface. The BMW is faster because it weighs less, and has more torque down low. I guess all these magazine testers and editors are a bunch of liars. You know there will be some discrepency based on conditions, but the 530i is clearly faster than the GS300. Go drive both. It's extremely obvious.

It doesn't matter how stiff your suspension is, the BMW will always have more NEUTRAL handling because of it's weight distribution (although it is pretty good on the GS300). That is important to some folks. Also, many of the 'pretenders' will throw better rubber on their cars for a good skidpad results, but they always lack behind in lane change maneuvers. In the Car and Driver '2000 Ultimate Comparisons' issue, the GS300 ran the emergency lane change maneuver at 58mph, while the 528i did it at 64.1... four full seconds faster than any of the other 7 vehicles in the class.

The GS300, and especially the TL-S, are simply not in the same league in the handling department... regardless of mods. They will never have the neutral hnadling, and never have the steering feel and the great 'cockpit' ergonomics BMW has. Driving a GS feels like you are riding ON the seat, not in it. They have no lateral support.

As far as reliability, the E39 is a very reliable car. I haven't seen a report that states otherwise (Consumer Reports, JD Power). As I recall the E39 scored better in initial quality than the GS300.

The only place that BMW isn't competitive is their pricing, and some quality items (mainly the cheap leather).

Maybe your friend doesn't know how to drive. Funny how you think one isolated incident with non-experienced drivers is the final word.

I frequent many car forums, and I find it pathetic that in every forum there are morons who think the car they like is better IN EVERY WAY than all other cars. Give me a break. If that were the case, we'd all be driving the same car. Each has their virtues, and it is a matter of priority for the buyers.

BMW makes driver's machines (at least with Sport Package). It ain't hype. If you can't tell the difference in driving them, that doesn't offend me. Some people have no class and can't tell the difference between a K-mart rug and a $8000 hand made rug. Good for you if you can save your money and be happy. Ignorance is bliss right?

-Scott

GS430

the GS300 will be able to pull for ONE car length on the 530i. Let's face it, we are talking about AUTO transmission here, please don't bring in the Manual in the context.


It's a proven fact that BMW doesn't do good in Auto transmission. The power lost is far greater than lexus and even MB. Of course, BMW in Manual is a different story,


Both BMW and LEXUS are top-notched quality cars, and they both have ups and downs. We are lucky to drive either one of them, but let's not be snotty here, and try to remain objective alrite? Especially for Bimmer, it's certain that your car rides nice, but it sure is not perfect. Given the facts that i was a previous 99 328ci owner, I just couldn't stand the service ignorance, and some annoying little problems. After all a 45k car should deserve more than that.

Anywayz... calm everyone. and let's start objectively.

sboje

ummm... I was talking about the automatic tranny.... and the 528i. The 530 EASILY beats a GS300. Face the music. The 5 speed 530 does 0-60 well under 7 seconds, and the auto in the low 7s. The GS300 is an 8 second car...

I don't have a problem getting along with people, but I do expect people to know what they are talking about. Show me your facts or references. I don't think you can back up your claim. You tell me to be objective, then you spout of some bullsh*t about power loss through the tranny. Show me the facts. I provided references. YOU are poluting this forum with useless, made up crap.

FYI, I own none of these cars, but have driven all of them. The 530 is very strong right from take-off, without much effort at all. The GS300 feels like a 2 liter engine until it gets some RPMs, and it NEVER pulls like a 530 auto... not even close pal.

You owned a 3 series, not a 5. So what is your point? You had a brand new model. New models ALWAYS have problems.

Present facts, or take a hike.

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chiawei

Look who's talking here.

I do own more than my share of Lexus/Toyota/Honda/Acura here. How about you? Where is your credibility? Did you own a BMW?

Your father owns one does not mean you own one. I do own a lexus. So don't hide behind the screen handle.

Last I recall, consumer report stated that 2000 528i excellent all around except electrical which was average. Do some research before you speak.

Are you part of my germs or what, how would you know what I would do. If i am so biased toward BMW, I would have bought a X5 over my RX300, given the fact that with X5 at least I have the option to go with the V8.

At least I can be honest about my opinion. Before, you criticize others look yourself in the mirror. Stop making an ass out of yourself.

How did you know I did not drive a TL type S before. The chassis flexes. Again, TL is not in the same category as E39. Its a great value for the performance it offers. But TL has always suffered from poor workmanship, it's not like a true honda import that is problem free either.

Again, I know the problem with my E39. I choose to live with that, because I like the E39 chassis, balance, and handling better. Which the GS/Aristo can't match.

But for sake of straight line performance, I would seriously consider a twin turbo Aristo over GS430 due to better weight balance. Last time i recall Aristo Twin Turbo is almost 50/50. Which GS430 is not close.

Next time, before you claim that you know what other think, think through what you really think you know.




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1998-Sienna
2000-Laguna Green TL
2001-Burnished Gold RX300
2001-BrilliantSilver C320
2001-Titanium Silver 530i

Guest

Hey guys! There is one alternative to either a Lexus or Bimmer. Both suck in my opinion. Get an Audi S4!!! Man, with an MTM stage II chip upgrade and 6spd manual, you will destroy a stock 540i, or GS430. GS430 can't handle worth a damn. Not only that, with the Audi you get AWD and 2 turbos. Turbocharged cars have a sh!tload of potential. A guy over in audiworld.com has a KKK K04 turbo upgrade and over 490HP going to the wheels. That guy smoked a new Porsche 996 Twin Turbo. Just something to think about.

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