GT TypeS

I'm sorry guys and gals, I don't agree with the styling of the Altima. I went and test drove one the other day with my cousin who is looking for a new car. While we did drive the 2.5, I must say that car looks and feels like a P.O.S. I can't believe anyone would say that car looks better than our TL's, stock or dropped with wheels. The interior looks like crap to me and the outside isn't very impressive either. JMNSHO (just my not so humble opinion). Sorry if I offended anyone.

Monte TLS,MAX

Remember not all of the new Altimas are 240 hp the 3.5 got a 5hp bump for 03 to 245hp.

Monte TLS,MAX

I agree people trip me out saying that they killed 02/03 3.5 Altimas and Maximas not not! In auto form they are very closely matched on the street and at the track stock from my experiences and I have both a TLS and an 03 Max (the Max gets the TLS out of the hole and the TLS come back at 70 and higher and neither pulls I've tested this 4 times swapping drivers). Sorry to say but a well driven manual 02 up Alti or Max will beat a TLS up to 145 now the CLS 6spd is a good match for the manual Alti and Max. Now if a TLP can hang with an 3.5 Alti auto thats saying it can hang with a TLS not (the only way is if he gets a bad launch)! The bottom line is the TLS is no faster than auto 3.5 Altimas or Maximas, they have the low to mid range advantage and the TLS high end.

r10apple

I still am not about to give props to an Altima and all of it's speed. I've been anecdotally on the street way too many times with an Altima, and I've never lost. It's never even been close to even a tie.
I've driven my friend's Altima and I have to say, you really have to abuse the absolutely shi+ out of it to get it moving, and even try to get the numbers that C&D did, and I'm telling you, the car won't do it. Secondly, every Altima I have ridden in and driven (rentals and two separate test drives with friends) were dogs, and none of them have one ounce of similarity. They all seem abhorently different, but different in a way that felt much less quick than my TL-S before it was ever modded...

I cannot say that about a Maxima at all. They are tried and true--even the new model seems consistent with the performance bench that was been set.

Again, I'm not saying a TL-S will smoke or even beat a manual Altima (but I'm saying you are insane if you think a TL-S isn't at least on par with an auto Altima), but my god, all my experiences with them have led me to believe that the C&D guys were smoking the same crackpipe during the Altima test as they did on the supercharged Comptech CL-S test...

And though I never do this, I disagree with you PeterUbers...Assuming fortunate had an extra 425 pounds in weight between people and gear, even though that adds up to only about 12 to 15% of the weight of the car, that makes a big difference in acceleration...

fortunate

I agree about the weight. But now that I think about it, the one major thing I think I did wrong was shifting to fourth and not to third when I was at 80 mph. I've done it before and I know there's a big difference in acceleration.

BTW, r10, I've never seen Clerks or Mallrats. I definitely need to rent those one day.

"Snootchiebootchies!"

Monte TLS,MAX

If you were reffering to me when you said " you are insane if you think a TLS isnt at least on par with an auto Altima) where did you get that from my statement show me read my statement again ( I never stated that TLS coulnt run with a Auto 3.5 Alti I said that they are very closely matched) and if not sorry for replying!

VQ35DE

You must be referring to the 2K4 Max.

As for the straightline performance comparisons in this thread:

CLS 6MT=Max 6sp=Alt 5sp. Period.

maxx96

Well I must say that previously owning a '96 Maxima SE 5sp and running neck to neck with those '98 mustang GT's and looking at their faces when they were not able to pull ahead I will say that you have to be carefull with what you mess with. I said this before power to weight ratio is a major problem for a lot of cars I proved that time and time again with my Maxima and now I'm looking for ways to improve my '03 TL-S power to weight ratio so I can do the same again but this time with heavier players, use your brain not your guts.

Monte TLS,MAX

Exactly and auto TLS/CLS= auto 02/03 Max and 02/03 3.5 Altima auto.

SergeyM

Altima doing 1/4 in 14.1? Where this info comes from? The best time I ever seen was 14.7.

ecstasy_civic

car and driver brother, 0-60 5.9 sec. i can scan you the info if you wanna see it.

r10apple

Wow, fortunate...how did I miss that...If you were at 80 and dropped it into 4th, then no wonder you were hammered...

Wrong gear...third is good to 115 or so and IMHO, is the strongest gear in the car (that and the top of second)...
Oh, and not to rub it in, but Clerks is better thanChasing Amy or Dogma!

fortunate

Yea, I just learned that the hard way. I'm sure that's probably the biggest reason why I couldn't pull on him. Time for me to go back to driver's school :P

As for Clerks, I'm gonna check it out this weekend. BTW, are we at least in agreement that "Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back" is the worst of the series?

sc354

yah that's sooooo true. I find that if I'm doing like 90km/h and gear the car down to 2nd, then gun it till it red lines at about 115km/h you get the most boost during that time frame, then if you're on the highway doing about 120 km/h and gun it, then third also gives you an awesome kick. You'd be surprised though that going 190km/h and gunning it in 4th will also give you a nice pull....but obviously not at much as you're approaching the top speed of the car.

r10apple

sc354: I'd get beat in your scenario just sitting there trying to convert my speed from kilometers to miles per hour...

Yeah, the last movie is pretty bad, though it has it's funny spots. I've got a friend who acts just like Chaka--err, Chris Rock so the movie does have a special place in our hearts!

SergeyM

Please do. To run 1/4 mile in 14.1 you need much better 0-60 than 5.9. E.g. BMW 540 i/6 runs 1/4 in 14/1 and 0-60 in 5.5.

ecstasy_civic

I was wrong, it ran a 14.6. i could have sworn it ran a 14.1.
sorry

r10apple

And my opinion remains that those numbers are hard--very hard to achieve in that car on a consistent basis...

sc354

Look at the results for the car above it, the Outlander...how can the 0-60 be at 11.8 seconds, and the quarter mile is 18.6 seconds? something fishy is going on here...doesn't sound too legit.

fortunate

I thought all SUV's and trucks are like that. They're slow to start off the line, but build up speed faster due to their momentum.

SergeyM

Many cars can run 1/4 mile in 14.5-14/7 range. Acura CLS/6 for example and many others. My car can run 14.3 all day but 14.1 is a completely different story. I don't even dream of getting 14.1. And no stinking Altima can do it. Getting 0.4 sec of your 1/4 mile time usually requires 3-5K investment (short of using NOS).

ecstasy_civic

thats absolutley not true, when i got my hondata and tuned it when it was stock i picked up 11whp and 7tq. which equalled out to a .5 difference in my 1320.

hondata is only 500 canadian.

also you can go turbo for less that 3-5K and knock up to 3-4 seconds off your time.

fortunate

Whoa, that's a heck of a lot of time knocked off with a turbo. Just think, if our TLS' run 14.9, then a turbo could drop the time down to 10.9? I find that extremely hard to believe.

r10apple

If you have a 16 or 17 second car (whatever), 7 to 10whp makes a lot of difference-especially when it's a lighter car to begin with. As cars get faster, knocking .5 seconds of your time is exponentially increased when talking about power, weight, etc...

Simply put, it would be relatively easy to go from a 16.0 to a 15.5 but to go from say 14.0 to 13.5 is much more difficult...I'm not a physics major, so don't come back and ask me to do the math. We've got enough engineers and the like on this site to do that!

ecstasy_civic

your right, but to take my friends mustang that is NA, and he runs mid 14's consistantly, it is hard to drop time when your car is already that fast. And it is easier to drop when you have a slower stock car. but.... with proper tuning and a few practical mods, you could easily drop to that time. Trust me, tuning on a proper dyno and having someone who knows what there doing means a world of difference.

r10apple

Yup... and assuming my modded TL-S runs mid 14's, simply adding an a'pexi v-afc and tuning it to get me 10-15whp isn't now gonna make me run a 14.0...

ecstasy_civic

you wont gain that much i promise you.

r10apple

I was making a point, not advertising of getting a v-afc!!!

Besides, tuning it on a dyno would end up costing me almost a grand between product, custom install and 2 hours of dyno tuning...Waste of money--and it would be useless if I get the sc!

ecstasy_civic

a grand!! USdlr? holy **** i get them for 350 cdn. install is like 100 bucks and dyno time is rouhgly 50-60 bucks an hr.
if you get the SC go hondata, ive had nothing but good luck with mine.

arlan

for 23k that could be the best bang for any car.

CHP4LiFe

Well said. I think a lot of people under estimate the power of the V6 Altima. I mean come on...It is a 4-door family sedan. But little do people know that this car can really pick up and go...especially the 5-speed. Don't get me wrong, the Acura CL-S is a fast car. But I would put my money on a 5sp Altima beating (not smoking) a 6sp CL-S any day.

SergeyM

And you will win. There is no such thing as 6 sp TL-S. Would you put your bet on 5sp Altima agains a 540 auto?

Aquineas

Hi guys, I'm an 03 Alti SE 5spd owner who found the board by link. Remarkably, this thread (and the posters) have been pretty respectful, classy, and for the most part accurate in some of their assessments. If you can suffer through the ramblings of an Altima owner, here are my thoughts:

Exterior
Stylistically, I think the TL-S is much better looking than the Altima. I like the low "sleek" look, especially from the back. My eye always finds them when I see them on the street. (The same is true for the CL-S: whenever I see one I stare). I think both are better looking than the Altima.

Interior
One of my co-workers has an 02 Acura TL with leather and the works. We have a weekly lunch routine going on every Wednesday (Double-Dave's Pizza and their $3.99 lunch buffet special, for you Texans :-)). I can say the Acura TL interior is very nice, but I have to be honest when I say I didn't find it an order-of-magnitude better than MY Altima, which for reference is an 03 with leather, sunroof, and fake wood trim. I would rate it a 6 out of 10, and I'd rate my Altima a 4 out of 10. One of the areas where I'd say the Altima falls down noticably is on sound insolation. The Altima's sound insolation sucks. This coupled with the relatively spacious interior (and associated echo effect) will have you reaching for your stereo knob. Road noise comes through MUCH too much on the car, but I suspect that is indeed a design decision made to keep the weight down. The Acura, in fitting with being a luxury car, was much quietier, but I have never been in a TL-S.

Engine and performance
I can't really speak about the TL-S performance, as I've never raced one, nor have I been in one (I'd like to though; pm me if you're in Austin). I can tell you about the Altima performance, though. I'll start off with a negative, the engine isn't as smooth as the engine was in my 97 Max. It's especially course between 3K-4K RPM. Above 4K RPMS, it feels identical to my 97 max, that is to say, mirror smooth. Coincidentally, that's when the variable timing and induction stuff switches over. I have my personal, unsubstantiated suspicion that the lack of smoothness below 4k rpms is a function of some of the parameter choices Nissan made with their variable timing and induction. I think Honda has a few more years of experience with this than Nissan. I also think that Honda's philosophy is to make more power at the higher RPM range (sacrificing low-end torque), and Nissan tends to be a bit more torque-focused.

I've seen various quotes in this thread about HP and Torque in the Altima vs. the TL-S. One thing to note is a stock 5spd Altima's torque is much closer to 260 ft/lbs at the crank than 240 ft/lbs. Stock 5spd Altimas dyno around 205-208hp and 223-227 ft/lbs torque. So they are underrated in the torque department, and intentionally handicapped in the HP department by an extremely restrictive intake and exhaust. You REALLY feel that torque, much more so than what I had in my Max, and in all honesty, it feels about like my 1999 Mustang Cobra felt.

On the HP side, it feels like the Altima rev-limiter (which is about 7K) ends the party a bit too soon, because the car is still pulling quite strongly when it rudely interjects.

Dimensions
Interior-wise, the Altima feels larger than the TL. Weight wise, there is anywhere from a 200-400 weight differential between the two; I'm not really sure why this is deemed as insignificant as some would think. My source is www.edmunds.com; feel free to validate this at your leisure.

Pricing
My Altima has every conceivable option except for traction control, which isn't available with 5spd. That includes leather, ABS, moonroof, side-impact air bags and side curtain, xenon headlights, bose stereo, auto-dimming mirror, and a bunch of other knick-knacks. I paid $26,200 (without tax), list on the car was about $29k. I saw references to $31k; and put me on record as saying that there's no possible way to get the MSRP price of an Altima to 31K unless the dealer installed a bunch of crap. Fiscally I wanted a G35 Coupe, but nuptial pressure prevented it.


Performance
As I said earlier, I've never been in a TL-S nor raced one (the ones I've seen in Austin have all been driven by late-20 something, early 30 something women who thus far haven't looked the least bit interested in racing). I will take an opportunity to quote and correct SergeyM:

The fastest V6 Altima on the Altima boards has a posted timeslip of 13.6. He has an intake, racepipe, and exhaust mods. Let me also qualify this by saying he'd removed his passenger seat and spare tire for that run, though he recently ran a 13.8 in high heat and humidity with full interior. There is at least one other V6 Altima that I know of who ran 13.9 (Ewood).


Conclusions[list=1][*]They don't really compete in the same marketspace. A much more evenly matched comparison is an 04 Max SE and a TL-S, or a G35 and a TL-S[*]The Acura is a more luxurious vehicle, definitely more upmarket[*]As a general rule, the Altima is probably faster, based on power and torque to weight ratios[*]Enjoy your rides; neither one of the cars are the fastest or most luxurious rides on the road[/list=1]

Fromaltimas.net

Basically I chose the altima over the TL because the altima was offered in a manual. on our boards the fastest 3.5 is mid 13's with really cheap mods. and a 14.3 off the showroom floor.

do you want more luxury? go with the TL
do you want cheap thrills? go with the altima.

Type S Lady

If you choose the Altima over the TLS you choose it because it has awesome exterior styling, and the TLS is more than likely out of your price range. If you choose the TLS its because of the semi-stylish looks, nice horespower for the buck, nice overall bang for the buck and its consistent reliabilty record. But I have to say you've got to drive the Type S. Aquineas was right, the Altima is not even in the same class as the TLS. We all know that, but if you look at the board you'll see us comparing our cars to the Lincoln LS, Maxima, G35, IS, Accord V6, etc. We compare on any car that is worth our time and gas racing. It's just nice to know where you stand at the light lined up with whatever. A realistic comparison would be the Altima V6 with mods and the Accord V6 with mods.

Ianbiz3

who would pay that that much for a nissan, (except a 350Z, or a Skyline). the interior looks like crap. it had a little kick to it. the TL can easily take it. i raced a 2001 maxima in my 99TL with intake and wider tires, and guess wut..... i won. if u turn off TCS and use SS, car flys.

r10apple

Nice review, Aquineas...Nice accurate reporting of the times at the track, too. I've trolled that forum and it is about as fair as this one...13.8-14.0 with the mods mentioned on that car is pretty accurate...I think he has some very lightweight wheels as well if I'm not mistaken...
Modded as such, the Altima 5sp is quicker in the 1/4 than a modded TL-S (sans the sc of course)...

Aquineas

You sir, did not demonstrate enough objectivity, forethought, or factual content in your post to be taken any more seriously than a beer-brave sportsbar patron on an NFL Sunday..

Cheers!

Fromaltimas.net

LOL 2001 maxima =222hp.... altima = 245hp and a 0-60 time of 5.9 seconds.... def not the same thing.

Type S Lady

Ha!!!!!! That was funny.