bobatimez

wat u think compared to our cars? can we be like them if they r better (handling)?

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Some Say "TL Type S," Navi, Spoiler, Side Skirts, Tint All Around, Interior Footwell Lighting, Eibach ProKit, PIAA 1700x Fogs in side holes, Inspire Tails, 17" Type-S Rims with 215/45/17 Bridgestone Potenza RE730's, Visor, Wood Shifter.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...026&a=10077686

grishulia

YES... and you woudn't be asking the question if you didn't think so yourself...

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Just my 2 cents...

bobatimez

not what i was looking for. please extrapolate.

grishulia

Come on BMW IS the Ultimate Driving Machine... and it is confirmed by every car magazine and etc., etc., etc........

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Just my 2 cents...

AC

You'll get different feedback from different people. Most people that talk shit about BMW's have never driven one. A true car enthusiast would admit that the BMW is a very well made car. "The best Sport Sedan in the World..." from R&T refering to the 5 series. Although the price of a BMW compared to our car is lobsided, the BMW, in my opinion is the Ultimate Driving Machine...under $60K that is!



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2000 TL Taffeta White
Factory Body Kit and Spoiler
18' DAZZ MATIZ
Tenzo 700X Fogs
Custom Mesh Grille
Custom Mesh Bumper Center
Comptech Headers
Comptech Springs
Comptech Sway Bars
AEM CAI
Greddy CatBack Exhaust
Inspire Tails
Inspire Steering Wheel
Burlwood Knob
Apexi V-AFC

grishulia

Well... if you are talking about the true sports cars than ok... but in a sedan or a coupe I dare you to name a better car than a BMW...



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Just my 2 cents...

GoldTypeS

Okay, I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but oh well

BMW's are "okay". They're really not that special. And before any of you start, YES I HAVE DRIVEN THEM. I've driven a 323Ci, 328i and Z3 2.8. This "Ultimate Driving Machine" thing is perhaps the greatest achievement in marketing ever. BMW's are different much more so than they are better. Let me say that again.... they are DIFFERENT more so than BETTER. WHat I mean by that is they hold certain priorities higher. RWD, a manual tranny and being "connected to the raod" is obviously more important than value, reliability, comfort and features.

I will say that their steering is probably the best in the world. The handling is very good, but too many people who don't know what the hell they're talking about confuse good steering with good handling. There's a difference. The reliability, from what I hear is.... well.... shall we say.... a little less than flattering. The cost is.... well... we won't go there.

If you want a car biased towards handling, performance, sporty feeling - buy a BMW. If you want a car that is a total package and has a little bit of everything - buy an Acura. That is not to say that either car is better than the other one.

Flame on

F=ma

I'm with GoldTypeS on this one...

After all, He's the only one who's put up a good argument, instead of relying on magazines and reviewers to do the talking for him. If you wanna really stomp my foot down on something you better be talking from your own experiences, and not from someone else's published work.

So I guess it all boils down to what you want. And in our case, Value had to be among the highest in our priorities.

grishulia

You have a good point there... but still... if you ask people what would their ideal car be they'd say BMW...

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Just my 2 cents...

Stylin Silver Sled

I have both an Acura 3.2TL and a BMW 540i and there is NO comparison. IMO everything about the BMW is superior over the TL, except for the price off course. I know that they are not in the same class but quality and performance on the BMW including fit and finish is superior. Just my 2 cents.

BMW's are IMO better than just "okay", and they are special. The sport seats in my bimmer are damn comfortable and even more supportive

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Kraco headunit with Radio Shack Bass reflex subwoofer enclosure. Ronel Teddybear rims Curb feelers with custom velvet dash complete with tassles.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

Yeah but Stylin, if Acura could price the TL the same as the 540i, they could put a whole hell of a lot of money into fit and finish.

But then you know what...no one would buy it. That's why people buy Acura...best combination of fit, finish, and price tag.

You can't compare two cars that have such radically different price tags.

grishulia

You are right no one would buy it... but you also admit to BMW being better... people still buy BMW's even with their price tag!

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Just my 2 cents...

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

Yeah but Acura never set out to be price leader. They were always a good car for a reasonable price. BMW never claimed to be inexpensive. Well except maybe for the NSX.

It's very hard from a marketing perspective to change strategy especially when price is in the mix.

Think about Hyundai. Could they ever come out with a $40000 sports car or luxury sedan?

Yeah that'd work...

grishulia

You are right, it's a good car and no one can beat it in it's price category... but again it's not a BMW...

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Just my 2 cents...

TLwiz

Price should NOT factor in to this. Comparing a BMW to an Acura is like comparing filet mignon to ground hamburg. There is no comparison.

YES, they are both great (the cars and the meats!), but not always what you feel like. Our Acura is an excellent car in all respects, so don't knock it. The BMW's that are being produced now far exceed the fit and finish of our Acura's, obviously for a price. Again, price doesn't matter. If that is the only argument that you have, you need to look deeper. Buying a one bedroom trailer or a 10 bedroom mansion is different, but both are homes.

Look at what the Acura means to us and others: high quality and prestige in a mid-range luxury market. BMW stands for near perfection and enthusiasm in driving. BMW sets out to create an automobile that is at the top for DRIVERS. They are created to experience the drive and the road.

Bottom line: Our Acuras are excellent cars, and so are BMWs. What your personal tastes are determines which you like more, NOT price.

grishulia

I don't know about a hamburger... that's more like a V6 Mustang... and a filet mignon is more of a MB than a BMW... LOL
But good points anyway...

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Just my 2 cents...

yu888

My personal experience between cars I have driven (family only has BMW and Honda products), and a somewhat more "fair comparason" as far as class of cars goes:
528 vs TL- BMW 5 series drives rock hard. Great handling! much better than TL is stock. power leaves quite a bit to be desired as the car is heavier. Have not driven the new 530, but I would think that has been improved. Many more options in BMW, but you gotta pay extra. Cost difference drove me to pick Acura but I have no regrets. BMW has a bit better fit and finish, but has had more probs than my Acura
X5 vs MDX- while we are on subject of this, the Acura MDX drove much better than the BMW in terms of road feel (what most people buy these SUVs for anyways) and even took some off road very competently.
Z3 vs S2000 Ok, this is not fair b/c the Honda blows the pants off the Z3 in everything that is important to me. Power, handling, looks, and practicality& economy.
Summary- its still a personal choice if you compare within a class of vehicle, but for now BMW's are better in terms of road feel for sedans. I might add that I really like the way the TL drives with just a few mods though, and our cost of maintenance over the long term is much better despite the few probs we have seen posted. If only the dealership service level could be upgraded to that of the other premium car brands...( sorry long post)

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1999 Satin Silver TL
Dunlop SP9000 215-45/17-mounted on CL-S 17" Rims
H&R Springs-Axiss MetalMasterPads-Crossdrilled Rotors
-Inspire Tailights-20/30/40 tint

Y2k Honda S2k Roadster
- Mingster Aeroscreen, Smokin Front mesh Grill, Clear Sidemarkers

souljas_1

Aight, let me ask you all this. How would the TL shape against its rival BMW with comptech springs?

grishulia

LOL... no comment...

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Just my 2 cents...

fredjones

I would wait until the TL-S comes out in a few months, then maybe there will be some comparisons to the new 530i.

Gomez

Uhhh, go drive one and ask the same question, I dare you!

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'01 White Diamond Pearl 3.2TL
-Wing, tint, burlwood shift, Whistler 6-band
'88 White RX-7 Convertible
-Permanent tinitus courtesy of Rockford-Fosgate

AC

My Ultimate Driving Machine is a 911 Twin Turbo! As far as sedan, I'm in total agreement that IMO there's nothing better than the 540i Sport out there.



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2000 TL Taffeta White
Factory Body Kit and Spoiler
18' DAZZ MATIZ
Tenzo 700X Fogs
Custom Mesh Grille
Custom Mesh Bumper Center
Comptech Headers
Comptech Springs
Comptech Sway Bars
AEM CAI
Greddy CatBack Exhaust
Inspire Tails
Inspire Steering Wheel
Burlwood Knob
Apexi V-AFC

PhiTL

I think it maybe be a slight oversight but M5?????



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'00 White Diamond Perl w/Nav
Wings West Spoiler
Comptech Exaust
Rear Comptech Sway bar

AC

Try adding Comptech Sways along wih 225 rubbers and still doesn't handle better than a 540i Sport. Now this could be because the 540i Sport has fat ass rubbers. The 330Ci is let's say very nimble and not the same feel as the 540i. I've never driven a 528 really hard so I can't say one way or another how well that car handles. Don't get me wrong, my car handles a heck of a lot better now.



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2000 TL Taffeta White
Factory Body Kit and Spoiler
18' DAZZ MATIZ
Tenzo 700X Fogs
Custom Mesh Grille
Custom Mesh Bumper Center
Comptech Headers
Comptech Springs
Comptech Sway Bars
AEM CAI
Greddy CatBack Exhaust
Inspire Tails
Inspire Steering Wheel
Burlwood Knob
Apexi V-AFC

AC

Oops totally forgot about that BEAST! The M5, although I've never driven one, is probably the best SEDAN. But under $60K, IMO the 540i Sport is still the best sedan out there...yes, even better than the GS400 - two folds.



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2000 TL Taffeta White
Factory Body Kit and Spoiler
18' DAZZ MATIZ
Tenzo 700X Fogs
Custom Mesh Grille
Custom Mesh Bumper Center
Comptech Headers
Comptech Springs
Comptech Sway Bars
AEM CAI
Greddy CatBack Exhaust
Inspire Tails
Inspire Steering Wheel
Burlwood Knob
Apexi V-AFC

Shoofin

I have driven and own a BMW(my parents)... IMO, everything about the car is positive..except for it's electrical system.. BMW's are notorious for electrical glitches.. I am referring expecially to the orangy display for the Odometer, HVAC and Computer controls; They deteriorate very quickly..they tend to disappear and reappear whenever they want. I've seen this in my friends 540, my parents 740, and my bro's bosses 740, all are pretty new..
Ed

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Acura-TL.com - Forum Moderator

'99 TL Satin Silver/Ebony, Non/Nav, Comptech lowered, Comptech Air Filter Element, Inspire Tails, AEM Brake Pads all around, Comptech Axle Back Exhaust, "Guy Smiley" doll on the dash as my Co-driver...

Pics of my TL
Pics of my Miata! Wadya think?

black2000

see my post: http://www.acura-tl.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003611.html

I agree with what AC said. The TL is an incredible value, and a really good car. BMWs are really expensive, but they're worth it; They are great cars.

The TL is one of the best $30k cars available (the other being the BMW 325i...) It meets my family's needs better than the 325i would have, which is why I didn't buy a 3-series. I don't own a 5-series because my wife and I felt we couldn't afford one now.

Now, ask me how the TL compares to the Audi A6 2.7T... That's a good illustration of how good a value the TL really is!


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David

Black-on-Black non-NAV 2000


<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by black2000 on December 28, 2000 @ ]</font>

bombs

Watch the car mags as they do have a slight bias. Last year,Car and Driver picked the TL as the best sports sedan for under $30k. A hands down winner. This year, they conviently left it out and the winner was the 3Series.
Price is an important consideration for any evaluation. One does not compare a Viper to a PT Cruiser, as they are not in the same league. It is a stretch to put a 3 Series in the same price category as a TL. Load any 3 with same options as the TL and it will run $10k or 30% more. You are still getting a smaller car. RWD is in the BWM plus column. However, after driving a new 325, I was not thrilled by the lack of pep and I found the steering to be worse than my Celica. The TL is more closely aligned to a 5 series in size; however, the price differential is even worse. And look at the performance on a 528: embarrassing. Now the M5 is another story, but at the price of 2 TLs. Utlimate Driver? you may want to think about the title going to some Italian exotics. But those are mostly dreams. Even if you have the cash, there are still waiting lists. Avoid the marketing hype and trade rags bias, but your backside in a both and drive the same route. Then pull out your check book. I think you will find your TL is a satisfactory experience all around.

grishulia

Hey... while you are comparing prices... take Hyundai XG300... I'm sure that for 30% price difference you should've taken it over the TL... or even better how about a Saturn L300 Sedan...

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Just my 2 cents...

black2000

I must respectfully disagree with some of your analysis: The TL won C&D's comparo for $30k sedans, not sport sedans. As far as I'm concerned, these are very different kinds of cars (I think the groups selected for the 2 tests reflect this.) All you need to do is drive a 3 series and a stock TL back-to-back to see the difference!

Despite the fact that the TL is quicker than the 525i, the Bimmer is much sportier; It handles much better, communicates much more feedback to the driver, and generally is less isolating and firmer in its responses. IMHO, the 5-series is worth the difference in cost from the TL.

But I firmly agree with your last comments; The only way to decide what you think of a car is to get out and drive it. And the TL is a more than satisfactory driving experience; It's a great car. It's just not the only great car...


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David

Black-on-Black non-NAV 2000

jhalderman

Rumor has it that Ford will be buying BMW. The annoucement will be after the first of the year. You heard it here first!

grishulia

I doubt it very much... maybe someone else but not a BMW...

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Just my 2 cents...