axleback

Ok, I finally got off my lazy butt last weekend and installed my SS brake lines. Took me about 2 hours to do...not too bad. Although I do notice an improvement in braking feel, an annoying problem started to surface. Pulsing brake and huge vibration in steering wheel when I do semi-hard braking. The first thing that came to mind was warped rotors. But if that was the case, I would've experienced it before I installed the lines. i've read a few threads in the past about warped rotors on our TL-S. But why would the problem suddenly occur right after I installed the lines? If I didn't bleed the system well enough, I would feel sponginess in the pedal. But the pedal feels great. Could it be the wheels are out of balance? If that's the case, I would feel the vibration even without braking. As you can see, with my limited mechanical skills, I've tried to think of every possibilities. Still scratching my head. If I bring it into the dealer for a check, they'll certainly see the mod. Will they void my warranty? Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.

BTW, once i feel the brakes pulsate, I would let go of the brake pedal and then re apply. When I do that, the problem seems to subside a bit (not completely gone though). Pulsating and vibrating steering wheel are very noticable when applying brakes at high speed.

axleback

Bitium

You have me thinking now

I have the SS lines too. I do not have that problem.

try to disable the ABS unit, don't know if the car would run, but if it does, you could narrow the problem.

Did any fluid fall on the rotors, not releated to the vibration, but maybe to the pulsation. Get a brake cleaner and spray on rotor and caliper. It removes all oil particles.

you could remove the vaccum hose from the brake booster and drive the car, if the problem stops happening then you have narrow the problem. BTW is the biggest hose connected to the back of the manifold, the hose goes from manifold to a big black round thing under the master cylinder.

what fluid did you use? if less than DOT3 your fluid might be boiling

Double check for warp rotor.

I personally think is releated to the ABS unit, by the few options that are left.

dimsumo

Maybe theres air still trap in the lines...

Bleed the brakes and see what happens
This way you can elminate possible problems one by one

axleback

I will try to disable the ABS tomorrow and see if the car will still run. I thought about the ABS factor as well but didn't disconnect it yet.

I checked all lines and there were no traces of fluid leaking anywhere.

I used Genuine Honda DOT-3 fluid.

Oh, I left out one detail on my original post: As I was working on the driver front brake line, I applied too much torque on the wrench and sheared the nut that's supposed to be connected to the back of the caliper (12mm nut). Since the kit didn't come with any extra parts, I had to reuse the nut from the original assembly. After I did a comparison, I noticed that the original nut is a bit longer than the one provided in the SS line kit. I tried my luck and it still fit on perfectly (no leaks after driving around for awhile). Could that contribute to my problem? I wouldn't think so.

I will also check the hose connected to the back of the manifold as well. Thanks for your suggestions Bitium.

axleback

axleback

If there were still air trapped in the lines, I would feel sponginess in the pedal. But it felt great. I'll try to bleed the system again and see if it'll eliminate the problem. ARRGGGHHH. This is not supposed to be hard! Thanks for your feedback too Dimsumo.

axleback

Bitium

Don't know how could something happen to the ABS unit, but better check that way you are sure that is not the problem. BTW the ABS unit is located by the power steering reservoir and the windshield water reservoir.

If there was, you wouldn't have brakes. even if it was minimal.

OK so that is out of the question.

Since it was the driver front brake line, do this test. Go to 40mph let go your hands from the steering wheel. Press the brakes, not hard but enough to reduced your speed quick. If your car pulls to your right, then there is your problem.

well don't check the hose, just disconected and drive with it disconected, make sure you don't go fast, since the brake pedal is going to be very hard.

You are welcome

ZodiakTL

not to sounds like a wiseass.. but that's why i had mine installed at Park Ave. fooling around with brakes is a

axleback

I would normally agree with you on that one. However, the reason why I decided to do it myself this time was because I had a pro watching me do it. This guy has been working on cars for years and he had just installed a Brembo system in his 'stang. You're probably wondering why I didn't approach him with this problem. Well, I will this weekend but just wanted to get some feedback from you guys first since so many people on this site already have the SS line installed and wanted to see if anybody experienced similar problem.

axleback

Bitium

Did you or your friend found out what the problem is? did it get fixed?

axleback

Thanks for your concern Bitium. No, I didn't get a chance to see him yet. I will this weekend though...if weather permits. Actually, let me run something by ya since we're on the subject. I noticed these couple of days that I don't feel the pulsation or vibration when the brakes are cold. Once they are warmed up (after driving around and applying the brakes), the problem surfaces. I suspect it's a warped rotors problem. I've talked to my friend over the phone and he thinks I might've tightened the wheels too much when I was screwing the tires back on resulting in the rotors being warped. But he said even that might be a long shot cuz I was only tightening them using my hands. Warped rotors by installing wheels usually happens when the power driver is used. I'll first try to reinstall the tires this weekend and drive it around. See what happens. Will keep you posted.

axleback

Bitium

It seems to be leading towards warped rotors. You usually don't feel that they are warped until they are warmed up. The vibration to the steering wheel mostly comes from the rotors. Since you never took or disasemble the calipers, it would point the vibration problem towards the rotors. The pulsation seems like a different story.

Did you read my post and try what I told you????

"Since it was the driver front brake line, do this test. Go to 40mph let go your hands from the steering wheel. Press the brakes, not hard but enough to reduced your speed quick. If your car pulls to one side, then there is your problem. "

I'm always concern when my fellow TL owners or I have TL(releated) problems

Road Rage

I think you may have warped the rotors by improper lug nut torquing, or perhaps a splash of water on hot rotors?

Air trapped in the system would not cause this pulsating, and if it were the ABS, you probably would see the light or hear the ABS motor units cycling.

axleback

I did apply the brakes at around 40mph and didn't notice the vehicle pull to either side of the road. I'm leaning toward Road Rage's comment more and more. The wheels could be torqued inproperly. But I've done this time and time before and never experienced a problem (with previous cars). Here's what I did: I torqued them down using the "star" pattern. Then to lock them in, I use my whole body weight (155lbs) to step on the handle bar. That's how I've always tighened my previous cars and never had an issue. If even a Toyota Tercel can take that force (great car btw), don't tell me Acura can't. I do noticed that the rear rotors on our car are very flimsy.

axleback

tdoh

Not to sound like a smarta** either, but using your entire body weight in itself won't necessarily torque the nuts to spec. Besides--it is force that is being applied, not weight; I mean, a 90-lb. person could conceivably apply the same amount of torque that you did...applying your body weight doesn't always mean that you're applying the same amount of torque each time you tighten a lug nut--some days you might be pushing down harder on that handle bar than on other days, or perhaps on different nuts.

Anyways, best to invest in a torque wrench to prevent possible future rotor warpage due to improper tightening of lugnuts...or thread-stripping.

Tony

Road Rage

I do not know where you came up with that practice, but I strongly discourage it - I have little doubt that my previous answer is right - depending on the wrench used's length, you could have applied way over spec torque. Whether it worked on your other cars is really quitre irrelevant, as one must deal with what one has at hand. One cannot treat a Mack truck like a Ferrari.

axleback

I think so too. If I losen them up now and re-torque them, will they be fine again? Or did I pretty much screwed them up?

axleback

axleback

Well, just got a call from the dealer. Diagnosis: warped rotors. I really don't know if it had anything to do with how I installed the SS brakelines or how I tighten the tires back on. The bottom line is, they didn't give me a hard time about it. They are in the process of machining the rotors right now. I was hoping they would replace new rotors but this should be just as good right? Even though that might mean shorter lifespan for my rotors. Acura of Libertyville got my vote.

btw, they are also going to give me a free oil change too...for this rotor work being done. No complaints from me. Can't wait to get my baby back.

axleback

blulegend

What I think is that the rotors were already warped to begin with. SS brake lines are supposed to increase brake response and tighten the overall feel of the brakes right? I think the SS lines just allowed you to feel the warped rotor that was already there. How warped did the dealer say they were?

axleback

Didn't have a chance to talk to them since I picked up the car after hours. But, from the looks of it, there was more warpage on the left rotor than on the right (I can still see faint rust line on the rotor on the right side which suggest they didn't take off too much on that side). I'd say they probably took off around 0.2mm? Apparently, they also replaced the brake pads too. Now the brakes don't pulsate anymore but stopping power is just as bad as when I had stock brake lines. I guess I'll have to break the brakes in first since they are now considered as new brakes.

axleback