Possible and Probable Engine / Tran Swap - ECU Question
12-19-2015, 09:06 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Possible and Probable Engine / Tran Swap - ECU Question
Hello fellow members,
So here's my problem. My 2001 TL has 163K on it and has been pretty good to me the 2 years that I have own it but I bought it used from a good friend and now I having some pretty major issues.
Firstly, my Transmission is most likely dead I have the dreaded P7040 Code and I'm still trouble shooting some things but I'm pretty sure it is toast.
Secondly, my engine is burning oil. Two quarts about every 5000-6000 miles and it's done this that last several oil changes. When I first bought the car I fixed several oil leaks and was surprised when the low oil pressure light came on and it was 2 quarts low on oil.
So enough of the back story, since I'm having all these issues all at once I thought it might be a good time to swap both the engine and the tranny at the same time. I'll be doing all the work and don't want to have to do things twice.
So I found a decent engine and tranny combo (I think) and it comes with the ECU and everything else attached to the engine and it's really clean with low mileage.
So my "Main" question is: Are the ECU and the Engines / Tranny married together?
I'm doing an exact swap on the engine meaning the same thing that was in the car originally.
So is it just plug and play from the original harness or do I have to change the harness and ECU and replace it with the new ECU and harness coming with the replacement engine and tranny?
I also read somewhere that some ignition keys are married to the ECU as well.
Is this true for the TL's??
So here's my problem. My 2001 TL has 163K on it and has been pretty good to me the 2 years that I have own it but I bought it used from a good friend and now I having some pretty major issues.
Firstly, my Transmission is most likely dead I have the dreaded P7040 Code and I'm still trouble shooting some things but I'm pretty sure it is toast.
Secondly, my engine is burning oil. Two quarts about every 5000-6000 miles and it's done this that last several oil changes. When I first bought the car I fixed several oil leaks and was surprised when the low oil pressure light came on and it was 2 quarts low on oil.
So enough of the back story, since I'm having all these issues all at once I thought it might be a good time to swap both the engine and the tranny at the same time. I'll be doing all the work and don't want to have to do things twice.
So I found a decent engine and tranny combo (I think) and it comes with the ECU and everything else attached to the engine and it's really clean with low mileage.
So my "Main" question is: Are the ECU and the Engines / Tranny married together?
I'm doing an exact swap on the engine meaning the same thing that was in the car originally.
So is it just plug and play from the original harness or do I have to change the harness and ECU and replace it with the new ECU and harness coming with the replacement engine and tranny?
I also read somewhere that some ignition keys are married to the ECU as well.
Is this true for the TL's??
12-19-2015, 11:26 PM
#2
Hi DJMikeT,
I can't answer all of your questions but I can say that the keys are 'married' to the immobilizer. I think there's a way to keep your immobilizer.
I think you can keep your TL's ECU and wiring harnesses if you want to.
2 quarts low is a lot. Do you know that it is burning oil or is it leaking oil? If it were burning that much I'd think you'd have smoke out your tail pipe or soot on your bumper.
If your rear main seal is leaking you might want to check your PCV. It could be clogged.
I can't answer all of your questions but I can say that the keys are 'married' to the immobilizer. I think there's a way to keep your immobilizer.
I think you can keep your TL's ECU and wiring harnesses if you want to.
2 quarts low is a lot. Do you know that it is burning oil or is it leaking oil? If it were burning that much I'd think you'd have smoke out your tail pipe or soot on your bumper.
If your rear main seal is leaking you might want to check your PCV. It could be clogged.
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DJMikeT (12-20-2015)
12-19-2015, 11:51 PM
#3
Instructor
Thread Starter
Hi DJMikeT,
I can't answer all of your questions but I can say that the keys are 'married' to the immobilizer. I think there's a way to keep your immobilizer.
I think you can keep your TL's ECU and wiring harnesses if you want to.
2 quarts low is a lot. Do you know that it is burning oil or is it leaking oil? If it were burning that much I'd think you'd have smoke out your tail pipe or soot on your bumper.
If your rear main seal is leaking you might want to check your PCV. It could be clogged.
I can't answer all of your questions but I can say that the keys are 'married' to the immobilizer. I think there's a way to keep your immobilizer.
I think you can keep your TL's ECU and wiring harnesses if you want to.
2 quarts low is a lot. Do you know that it is burning oil or is it leaking oil? If it were burning that much I'd think you'd have smoke out your tail pipe or soot on your bumper.
If your rear main seal is leaking you might want to check your PCV. It could be clogged.
It's not leaking oil anywhere, RMS and cover was leaking when I got the car as well as the O Ring behind the oil pump. I fixed all that about 30K miles ago and it's never leaked since.
It's definitely burning oil, it takes some time over about 5000 to 6000 miles.
It's done this twice on me, both times the low oil pressure light came on.
Not sure on the smoking, I never really looked close but I will check for soot tomorrow when I look at the car tomorrow.
A good friend of mine said I should be able to use my current ECU and harness without any issues. So I will do that unless I run into problems.
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DJMikeT (12-20-2015)
12-20-2015, 01:04 AM
#5
Instructor
Thread Starter
12-20-2015, 01:25 AM
#6
Damn 163k and engine already done?
Have you checked your PCV valve? It should rattle when shaken it's possible it's sucking oil though your intake,
Just an idea, I mean if it solves your oil issue then maybe you could save some money or go ahead and get an AV6 tranny for a more reliable solution
Have you checked your PCV valve? It should rattle when shaken it's possible it's sucking oil though your intake,
Just an idea, I mean if it solves your oil issue then maybe you could save some money or go ahead and get an AV6 tranny for a more reliable solution
12-20-2015, 02:51 AM
#7
Instructor
Thread Starter
Damn 163k and engine already done?
Have you checked your PCV valve? It should rattle when shaken it's possible it's sucking oil though your intake,
Just an idea, I mean if it solves your oil issue then maybe you could save some money or go ahead and get an AV6 tranny for a more reliable solution
Have you checked your PCV valve? It should rattle when shaken it's possible it's sucking oil though your intake,
Just an idea, I mean if it solves your oil issue then maybe you could save some money or go ahead and get an AV6 tranny for a more reliable solution
Ya I've checked everything over, it's not the PCV and even if it had been bad it wouldn't be sucking that amount of oil I don't think.
I purchased this vehicle with 132K miles on it and I really don't know how it was treated before me. It had quite a few issues that I've already fixed.
My tranny going out is only part of the problem, I've been knowing that this was coming since I discovered the problem about 6 months ago.
The car also seems to have lost a lot of power since we first got it.
The engine still currently runs but it's only a matter of time before it gets bad enough to have replace it. Might as well change them both out now and be done with it for a while hopefully.
I found a decent engine and tranny (I hope) for $1500. I've been looking for almost a week and it was the best one I've seen yet condition wise, so I pulled the trigger and bought it.
Hopefully everything pans out, time will tell.
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12-20-2015, 10:56 PM
#8
Instructor
Thread Starter
So the "new" used engine is on the way and it's actually a Type S engine so this will be a nice little upgrade getting an extra 35HP over my original TL engine.
12-21-2015, 03:49 AM
#9
Drifting
Hello fellow members,
So here's my problem. My 2001 TL has 163K on it and has been pretty good to me the 2 years that I have own it but I bought it used from a good friend and now I having some pretty major issues.
Firstly, my Transmission is most likely dead I have the dreaded P7040 Code and I'm still trouble shooting some things but I'm pretty sure it is toast.
Secondly, my engine is burning oil. Two quarts about every 5000-6000 miles and it's done this that last several oil changes. When I first bought the car I fixed several oil leaks and was surprised when the low oil pressure light came on and it was 2 quarts low on oil.
So enough of the back story, since I'm having all these issues all at once I thought it might be a good time to swap both the engine and the tranny at the same time. I'll be doing all the work and don't want to have to do things twice.
So I found a decent engine and tranny combo (I think) and it comes with the ECU and everything else attached to the engine and it's really clean with low mileage.
So my "Main" question is: Are the ECU and the Engines / Tranny married together?
I'm doing an exact swap on the engine meaning the same thing that was in the car originally.
So is it just plug and play from the original harness or do I have to change the harness and ECU and replace it with the new ECU and harness coming with the replacement engine and tranny?
I also read somewhere that some ignition keys are married to the ECU as well.
Is this true for the TL's??
So here's my problem. My 2001 TL has 163K on it and has been pretty good to me the 2 years that I have own it but I bought it used from a good friend and now I having some pretty major issues.
Firstly, my Transmission is most likely dead I have the dreaded P7040 Code and I'm still trouble shooting some things but I'm pretty sure it is toast.
Secondly, my engine is burning oil. Two quarts about every 5000-6000 miles and it's done this that last several oil changes. When I first bought the car I fixed several oil leaks and was surprised when the low oil pressure light came on and it was 2 quarts low on oil.
So enough of the back story, since I'm having all these issues all at once I thought it might be a good time to swap both the engine and the tranny at the same time. I'll be doing all the work and don't want to have to do things twice.
So I found a decent engine and tranny combo (I think) and it comes with the ECU and everything else attached to the engine and it's really clean with low mileage.
So my "Main" question is: Are the ECU and the Engines / Tranny married together?
I'm doing an exact swap on the engine meaning the same thing that was in the car originally.
So is it just plug and play from the original harness or do I have to change the harness and ECU and replace it with the new ECU and harness coming with the replacement engine and tranny?
I also read somewhere that some ignition keys are married to the ECU as well.
Is this true for the TL's??
In light of this new development it is critical that you get the correct Type S engine wire harness and ecu in order for the Type S engine to operate correctly. The three are basically designed as a cohesive unit.
FYI, so now in light of this new Type S scenario, you shall install all three together in order for it to operate as a true Type S and will probably need to tow the car to the dealership to reprogram the imobilizer that's embedded in the ecm.
When reprogramming the imobilizer, be sure to bring all the keys you have for the TL so all of them can be match to the new imobilizer code. Any key that's not mated to the new imobilizer code will no longer start the car. The recoding will cost in the neighborhood of $200.
You might have a minor issue with the engine mounts but it should still work.
Speaking of engine mounts, now is a perfect time to change them.
Last edited by 01acls; 12-21-2015 at 03:53 AM.
12-21-2015, 01:47 PM
#10
Instructor
Thread Starter
That is a really cool upgrade! However, it's going to be a little more work than originally stated above and a little more money to reprogram the ecu. The good news is, it's still plug and play.
In light of this new development it is critical that you get the correct Type S engine wire harness and ecu in order for the Type S engine to operate correctly. The three are basically designed as a cohesive unit.
FYI, so now in light of this new Type S scenario, you shall install all three together in order for it to operate as a true Type S and will probably need to tow the car to the dealership to reprogram the imobilizer that's embedded in the ecm.
When reprogramming the imobilizer, be sure to bring all the keys you have for the TL so all of them can be match to the new imobilizer code. Any key that's not mated to the new imobilizer code will no longer start the car. The recoding will cost in the neighborhood of $200.
You might have a minor issue with the engine mounts but it should still work.
Speaking of engine mounts, now is a perfect time to change them.
In light of this new development it is critical that you get the correct Type S engine wire harness and ecu in order for the Type S engine to operate correctly. The three are basically designed as a cohesive unit.
FYI, so now in light of this new Type S scenario, you shall install all three together in order for it to operate as a true Type S and will probably need to tow the car to the dealership to reprogram the imobilizer that's embedded in the ecm.
When reprogramming the imobilizer, be sure to bring all the keys you have for the TL so all of them can be match to the new imobilizer code. Any key that's not mated to the new imobilizer code will no longer start the car. The recoding will cost in the neighborhood of $200.
You might have a minor issue with the engine mounts but it should still work.
Speaking of engine mounts, now is a perfect time to change them.
It shouldn't be hard to change that out.
So I was wondering is it possible to take just the ECU and the keys to the dealer ship before install and have them do that in advance or does everything have to be installed first???
12-21-2015, 01:54 PM
#11
Drifting
Yes but also have to use the Type S engine harness too.
So all have to be Type S... engine/engine harness/ecm.
I would think so on the ecu but not sure. Easy to find out, just call the dealership and ask.
So all have to be Type S... engine/engine harness/ecm.
I would think so on the ecu but not sure. Easy to find out, just call the dealership and ask.
12-21-2015, 02:27 PM
#12
Instructor
Thread Starter
Here's a picture of the engine as you can see everything appears to be attached.
I'll stop by the dealership on the way to work and talk to the service department.
12-21-2015, 06:33 PM
#14
Instructor
Thread Starter
Isn't the immobilizer imbedded into the ECU?
So if I have to change the ECU to the one that is on the Type S Engine then I will set have to get the keys married to that immobilizer or the car won't start. Unless I'm missing some information on the immobilizer, it's not two separate parts is it?
I went to the dealership today and they said they would need the whole car to do the swap to the new ECU.
Approx 1/2 to 1hour labor, they told me $110 max which isn't too bad.
12-21-2015, 06:40 PM
#15
Instructor
Thread Starter
Well hell! I just looked on the Acura parts website and the Immobilizer is a separate part that's up on the steering column. So if I keep the one I currently have will the car start when I put in the new ECU or does it have to be married to that ECU????
12-21-2015, 07:10 PM
#16
Drifting
Chojun,
FYI: That key will start the car but he would need to buy at least one new ignition lock cylinder and have the tumblers coded to the car's new use key in order for him to be able to turn the ignition lock cylinder to start the car.
In other words the new use key will not fit his car's lock cylinders until he change the tumblers.
12-21-2015, 07:24 PM
#17
Instructor
Thread Starter
That one is to read the key to match it to the imobilizer code in the ecm.
Chojun,
FYI: That key will start the car but he would need to buy at least one new ignition lock cylinder and have the tumblers coded to the car's new use key in order for him to be able to turn the ignition lock cylinder to start the car.
In other words the new use key will not fit his car's lock cylinders until he change the tumblers.
Chojun,
FYI: That key will start the car but he would need to buy at least one new ignition lock cylinder and have the tumblers coded to the car's new use key in order for him to be able to turn the ignition lock cylinder to start the car.
In other words the new use key will not fit his car's lock cylinders until he change the tumblers.
OK, so the new Type S Engine that is coming doesn't include the keys as far as I know.
Therefore I will have to keep my existing keys and gets those coded to the new ECU correct??
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DJMikeT (12-21-2015)
12-21-2015, 07:41 PM
#19
Instructor
Thread Starter
Alright cool. It's a small fee to pay. Hopefully I won't have any issues. I'll make another thread when I start and post updates on how everything is going with the swap.
12-22-2015, 09:55 AM
#21
Drifting
DJMikeT,
Have you done any homework on this Type S swap at all? A project of this magnitude and going hybridding different power plant to different model cars needs at least a little planning in parts compatibility and execution. It pays to do a little home work.
Basic things to research such as how to prelube a bone dry engine; what are the differences between my engine and the new one; what harness(es) I might need; is there a difference in rpm limit; Type S vs Premium displays, etc?
I suggest you do a little homework and educate yourself. Make sure you have all the part you need or prepare to plow your own way. At least have some kind of a general understanding, a plan and then execute. This is not something you want to do just at a whim.
Pees here love to help but not necessarily want to help pees that are too lazy or won't even take the time to educate themselves.
Are there any other parts that you might want to change while the engine/trans is out?
From a practical standpoint you don't want to be asking questions while doing the work too.
Google is your friend. Remember knowledge is power.
Have you done any homework on this Type S swap at all? A project of this magnitude and going hybridding different power plant to different model cars needs at least a little planning in parts compatibility and execution. It pays to do a little home work.
Basic things to research such as how to prelube a bone dry engine; what are the differences between my engine and the new one; what harness(es) I might need; is there a difference in rpm limit; Type S vs Premium displays, etc?
I suggest you do a little homework and educate yourself. Make sure you have all the part you need or prepare to plow your own way. At least have some kind of a general understanding, a plan and then execute. This is not something you want to do just at a whim.
Pees here love to help but not necessarily want to help pees that are too lazy or won't even take the time to educate themselves.
Are there any other parts that you might want to change while the engine/trans is out?
From a practical standpoint you don't want to be asking questions while doing the work too.
Google is your friend. Remember knowledge is power.
Last edited by 01acls; 12-22-2015 at 09:58 AM.
12-22-2015, 02:43 PM
#22
Instructor
Thread Starter
DJMikeT,
Have you done any homework on this Type S swap at all? A project of this magnitude and going hybridding different power plant to different model cars needs at least a little planning in parts compatibility and execution. It pays to do a little home work.
Basic things to research such as how to prelube a bone dry engine; what are the differences between my engine and the new one; what harness(es) I might need; is there a difference in rpm limit; Type S vs Premium displays, etc?
I suggest you do a little homework and educate yourself. Make sure you have all the part you need or prepare to plow your own way. At least have some kind of a general understanding, a plan and then execute. This is not something you want to do just at a whim.
Pees here love to help but not necessarily want to help pees that are too lazy or won't even take the time to educate themselves.
Are there any other parts that you might want to change while the engine/trans is out?
From a practical standpoint you don't want to be asking questions while doing the work too.
Google is your friend. Remember knowledge is power.
Have you done any homework on this Type S swap at all? A project of this magnitude and going hybridding different power plant to different model cars needs at least a little planning in parts compatibility and execution. It pays to do a little home work.
Basic things to research such as how to prelube a bone dry engine; what are the differences between my engine and the new one; what harness(es) I might need; is there a difference in rpm limit; Type S vs Premium displays, etc?
I suggest you do a little homework and educate yourself. Make sure you have all the part you need or prepare to plow your own way. At least have some kind of a general understanding, a plan and then execute. This is not something you want to do just at a whim.
Pees here love to help but not necessarily want to help pees that are too lazy or won't even take the time to educate themselves.
Are there any other parts that you might want to change while the engine/trans is out?
From a practical standpoint you don't want to be asking questions while doing the work too.
Google is your friend. Remember knowledge is power.
lolI'm not a newbie to cars, I've done a lot of work over the years and took Auto Mechanics while in High School so I know my way around. The only reason I was asking these questions is because I wasn't sure how the ECU would come into play.
I'm going to run a compression test on the new engine before I even think about swapping it out. If that checks out then there are some things I will replace right off the bat such as timing belt, water pump, spark plugs, drive belt and pully's etc....
I'll check over the engine with a fine tooth comb and then install it.
The proper harness and ECU come with the Engine so I'm covered there.
I have the Acura Service Manual (The real one) which details step by instructions and I have already read it a few times and plus I've dropped the tranny twice on my TL fixing oil leaks so I'm already pretty comfortable with it.
I have all the proper tools such as Engine hoost, tranny jack, Mechanics set hand tools, Air compressor, etc.....
I'm a hardcore DIYer, just built a 24x14 shop in my back yard also this summer. There's not much I cannot do, but I like to ask questions to have all the bases covered before I start a big project.
Thanks for all the advice and for answering questions about the ECU, I'm very confident I'm go to go now.
12-22-2015, 04:58 PM
#23
Drifting
Good to know that you know your way around a car.
Let me say it in another way. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. What you are doing has been done before. I think you need to read some of the old post. It may save you a lot of headaches and time in the long run.
Let me say it in another way. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. What you are doing has been done before. I think you need to read some of the old post. It may save you a lot of headaches and time in the long run.
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DJMikeT (12-22-2015)
12-22-2015, 06:33 PM
#25
Instructor
Thread Starter
Do you have a link to that old post? I have time before the engine arrives to educate myself some more on the matter. Tomorrow I start on taking the bad one out.
12-22-2015, 06:34 PM
#26
Instructor
Thread Starter
12-22-2015, 06:45 PM
#27
Drifting
https://acurazine.com/forums/perform...002-tl-755964/
You should also read other posts too for additional insight.
Other post suggest there may be additional coolant outlets on some Type S jdm engines.
You should also read other posts too for additional insight.
Other post suggest there may be additional coolant outlets on some Type S jdm engines.
12-22-2015, 07:54 PM
#28
Instructor
Thread Starter
https://acurazine.com/forums/perform...002-tl-755964/
You should also read other posts too for additional insight.
Other post suggest there may be additional coolant outlets on some Type S jdm engines.
You should also read other posts too for additional insight.
Other post suggest there may be additional coolant outlets on some Type S jdm engines.
12-24-2015, 11:10 AM
#30
Instructor
Thread Starter
So I have been doing a lot of reading and I came across something about the dash harness maybe needing to be changed also? One guy said his lights and a bunch of other stuff didn't work correctly.
Can anyone confirm on this?
Can anyone confirm on this?
12-24-2015, 12:50 PM
#31
Instructor
Thread Starter
Wire Harnesses
OK, so I've done some searching on the Acura parts site and this is what I have found.
Dash Harness:
2001 Base TL - 32150-SOK-A10
2002 Type S - 32150-SOK-A10
2003 Type S - 32150-SOK-A11
Instrument Harness:
2001 Base TL - 32117-SOK-A11
2002 Type S - 32117-SOK-A11
2003 Type S - 32117-SOK-A22
Left Cabin:
2001 Base TL - 32120-SOK-A01
02-03 Type S - 32120-SOK-A11
Right Cabin:
2001 Base TL - 32100-SOK-A01
02-03 Type S - 32100-SOK-A12
So the Dash and Instrument harness are the exact same from 2001 to 2002, however the 2003 is a different A number.
The cabin harnesses have almost the same part number except for the A numbers at the end are different.
I've been looking but I don't see much information on any of this, I've seen a few opinions one way or the other but nothing definitive.
I really wouldn't think much would change in the harness considering it's from the same generation but I sure would like to know in advance.
I know a lot of parts can interchange within the same generation of a make even thought the part numbers might be slightly different, I hope that is the case here.
Hopefully I do not run into any issues with my lights etc.....
Dash Harness:
2001 Base TL - 32150-SOK-A10
2002 Type S - 32150-SOK-A10
2003 Type S - 32150-SOK-A11
Instrument Harness:
2001 Base TL - 32117-SOK-A11
2002 Type S - 32117-SOK-A11
2003 Type S - 32117-SOK-A22
Left Cabin:
2001 Base TL - 32120-SOK-A01
02-03 Type S - 32120-SOK-A11
Right Cabin:
2001 Base TL - 32100-SOK-A01
02-03 Type S - 32100-SOK-A12
So the Dash and Instrument harness are the exact same from 2001 to 2002, however the 2003 is a different A number.
The cabin harnesses have almost the same part number except for the A numbers at the end are different.
I've been looking but I don't see much information on any of this, I've seen a few opinions one way or the other but nothing definitive.
I really wouldn't think much would change in the harness considering it's from the same generation but I sure would like to know in advance.
I know a lot of parts can interchange within the same generation of a make even thought the part numbers might be slightly different, I hope that is the case here.
Hopefully I do not run into any issues with my lights etc.....
12-24-2015, 02:49 PM
#32
Instructor
Thread Starter
I was able to find a couple posts of other's who have done this and it was Plug and Play so long as you use the Engine Harness and ECU for the Type S engine.
I don't know what the one person did to have lighting issues.
I went ahead and got a Type S cluster also so I think I have everything needed for the job now.......fingers crossed!
I don't know what the one person did to have lighting issues.
I went ahead and got a Type S cluster also so I think I have everything needed for the job now.......fingers crossed!
12-28-2015, 10:35 PM
#33
Instructor
Thread Starter
Well I confirmed my transmission being shot to hell today. As I was removing the fluid so that I could start removing the engine and transmission I noticed a huge amount of black slug on the magnetic drain plug and when I ran it inbetween my fingers I fell some small metal fragments!
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